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  1. #21
    Its also standard in rpgs that there are people who are wealthier than you that have better gear.

  2. #22
    Quote Originally Posted by Stromgarde View Post
    Gear improving visually over time when playing RPGs is a staple mechanic. If it was trivial nonsense, it wouldn't be something the vast majority of RPG devs make sure to take into account, so I don't see your perspective here whatsoever. Transmogrification already heavily breaks the rules of realistic gear acquisition, that's why certain restrictions were made in the first place.
    Gear visually changing is not a "mechanic." I cant even argue with you that it is a staple consitering other RPGs have characters that do not actually change visually throughout the game. Also this is assuming you do not include costumes as they have no impact gameplay wise and are purely visual. There's multitudes of games where your look doesn't change with your equipment changing, or if it does change, its not drastic. Almost every final fantasy game is like this, Castlevania, Lost Spheres, Secret of Mana, Undertale, Neir automata.
    Everyone is entitled to be stupid, but some abuse the privilege.

  3. #23
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    Quote Originally Posted by Azelas View Post
    well the moment they put an RPG element like having to unlock the allied races everyone cried to no end and it was a huge shitstorm so the truth is the majority of players don't even want WoW to be an RPG apparently.
    Exactly, and I find it quite ironic how players want this or that in the game and as soon as Blizzard put it in, those same players bitch, moan and QQ about it..

    As that old overused line goes "they say they want it but they really don't."

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by MoanaLisa View Post
    Actually there are no RPG rules that I'm aware of that says that low-level characters need to be clothed in rags.

    Missed chance to make a valid point about the developers viewpoint about role-playing versus story and gameplay. A shame that the thread focuses on a rather trivial bit of nonsense.
    Precisely, I thought it was somewhat more important about the direction the game is going, but it seems that how a player looks is more important.. Case of go figure..

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by Marrilaife View Post
    Be glad Blizzard doesn't go the route of 90% other MMORPG developers who put "coolest" transmogs, outfits and costumes on the cash shop.
    Tell me about it, just look at games like Stawars Battlefront 2 and Destiny 2 and well Destiny 2 especially for what Bungie got up to.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Hey There Guys its Metro View Post
    Its only a big deal if you are living in the past though. Since wrath there has been heirlooms that look like raid gear that can be worn at level 1.
    There has not been any changes recently that allows you to wear or transmog gear above 60 when you are below 60, so this is no different than that.

    If this bothers you, you are just playing the wrong game.
    This game is not about the visuals of those around you any more. Maybe it was in Classic, but if I'm paying 15 dollars a month it damn sure better be about the quality of the gameplay first and foremost.
    Exactly, game play trumps everything in a game like this.. If the game play sucks no amount of fancy visuals will save it.

  4. #24
    Quote Originally Posted by SirCowdog View Post
    Your entire point is based on not liking the way another player interacts with the game. ...


    Maybe you should spend more time focusing on your own fun instead of getting bent out of shape over what other players are doing. Especially when it's cosmetic and has ZERO impact on anything.
    Except it's an MMORPG. What other players do, like it or not, affects other players both directly and indirectly. Directly in that they can kill your character, and indirectly that they can get an insane RNG 985 LFR item. Both these aspects matter to the GAME because it affects EVERYONE.

    I agree with OP though, you shouldn't be able to transmog gear higher than your level IMO. It's like the classic alliance PVP gear, you can't transmog it (or maybe it's just in PVP it won't show, I can't remember specifically) unless you have earned an equivilent rating by modern standards. Why does this exist, but it's okay to throw away that aspect of EARNING it on THAT CHARACTER for everything else?

    WoW does continually throw away the RPG aspects of the game, which leaves it to just being an MMO nowadays... it's not really worthy of the RPG tag that's added on to it.

  5. #25
    Quote Originally Posted by ablib View Post
    I think over half of the people in this thread, and in the game, fail to understand that RPG stands for Role Playing Game. We are all playing the role of a hero.

    I agree with the OP. There is no possible way a newly appointed Squire could have possibly mustered the strength to defeat a foe that dropped that level 100 bling. The game is getting farther and farther from the immersive fantasy world that this game was when it came out. It's a minor thing to complain about, but all the minor things are adding up to what Warcraft has become today.

    I realize most players could give two shits about this, but to some people, it's a big deal.
    Well this newly appointed squire happens to be the descendent of a pretty badass character. What's it to you that they bequeathed my toon some awesome looking threads? Don't be jealous that Deathlord Aktaknight was there when the Lich King fell, and now Aktaknight III can deck himself out in the finest looking plate.


    We don't think flying makes questing quicker. We think it makes it trivial. There is a difference. Source
    How does flying trivialise this quest?
    Cherry picking data, have a read.

  6. #26
    I have to admit I find it kind of odd that people often focus on these relatively minor, unimportant roleplaying elements and not the astronomically huge issues with the way WoW handles its roleplaying. It's not things like restrictions on gear, elaborate crafting, or storing arrows in a quiver that make a roleplaying game -- that's just immersion fluff, and honestly a lot of it is a straight up choice between better immersion and better gameplay, one which Blizzard are likely to fall on the latter side of.

    The real problem with WoW as an RPG is that it practically goes out of its way to prevent you from, you know, roleplaying. Expansion by expansion the story has been told in an increasingly prescriptive, single-player fashion that shoehorns the PC into more and more of a rigid role, to the point where they're literally a canon major lore figure in Legion. The game has strayed so far away from the idea of player agency that the very existence of other PCs of your class is immersion breaking now.

    There are so many things they could do to fix this, many of them incredibly small and easy changes. For all of their many talents, the Blizzard devs are absolutely terrible at cultivating roleplay through their storytelling mechanics. I don't think they understand how hard this stuff conflicts with the kind of RPG WoW attempts to be. It's far closer in its roleplaying aspect to something like Final Fantasy than it is Baldurs Gate or Skyrim. That wouldn't be a problem if it was trying to be Final Fantasy, but WoW has always been far more firmly rooted in Western roleplaying traditions, and by muddying the waters like this it creates a very dissonant experience.

    I don't care about being able to transmog flashy looking gear at low level. Just give me a game that makes me consider and express who my character is, not one that dumps a script in my lap and says "you'll be performing the role of Champion #9 today".

  7. #27
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    Ever since heirlooms it's been more of a clown-fiesta than a rpg.
    If you knew the candle was fire then the meal was cooked a long time ago.

  8. #28
    Quote Originally Posted by MyndZero View Post
    Except it's an MMORPG. What other players do, like it or not, affects other players both directly and indirectly. Directly in that they can kill your character, and indirectly that they can get an insane RNG 985 LFR item. Both these aspects matter to the GAME because it affects EVERYONE.
    .
    Killing other characters is only a factor on PVP servers, which are explicitly stated to be an intentionally unbalanced experience, making your point invalid. On PVE servers you can't be attacked by other players unless you specifically choose to allow it.

    Furthermore, the original complaint was about cosmetic appearance, which has no actual impact on gameplay. If Xmog gave actual power increases beyond what was available during leveling, that would be an entirely different discussion. But it doesn't, and other than the extremely minor impact of heirlooms and enchants, everyone has access to the same power levels.

    "What one player does effects everyone" is a fundamental truth of any multiplayer experience. All you're really saying is that people are playing in a way you don't approve of. If it wasn't xmogs it would be playing the class "the wrong way", or choosing the "wrong" profession for the class, or doing quests in the "wrong" order, or something else completely arbitrary.

    This isn't a flaw with the game. It's with you.
    Last edited by SirCowdog; 2018-03-10 at 06:48 AM.

  9. #29
    Quote Originally Posted by ablib View Post
    I think over half of the people in this thread, and in the game, fail to understand that RPG stands for Role Playing Game. We are all playing the role of a hero.

    I agree with the OP. There is no possible way a newly appointed Squire could have possibly mustered the strength to defeat a foe that dropped that level 100 bling. The game is getting farther and farther from the immersive fantasy world that this game was when it came out. It's a minor thing to complain about, but all the minor things are adding up to what Warcraft has become today.

    I realize most players could give two shits about this, but to some people, it's a big deal.
    Given that 99% of the gear we put on is ridiculous in the first place, you'll have to forgive me if I believe their theoretical method of acquisition doesn't really do much for my immersion.

  10. #30
    Quote Originally Posted by Wondercrab View Post
    The real problem with WoW as an RPG is that it practically goes out of its way to prevent you from, you know, roleplaying
    See this, right here? This is a real argument that actually talks about the flaws of WoW "RPG" aspects.

    I completely agree. There's no real choice in WoW. You can't choose to be the badguys. You can't even really choose to do anything that goes off the rails Blizzard dictates.

    If ever there was a reason wow didn't qualify as an actual RPG, this would be it.

  11. #31
    Quote Originally Posted by SirCowdog View Post
    See this, right here? This is a real argument that actually talks about the flaws of WoW "RPG" aspects.

    I completely agree. There's no real choice in WoW. You can't choose to be the badguys. You can't even really choose to do anything that goes off the rails Blizzard dictates.

    If ever there was a reason wow didn't qualify as an actual RPG, this would be it.
    One thing that really reminded me of this problem the other day was a quest I had to do as part of the Rogue class campaign. There's an objective that reads "hear out the plan and cast your vote". I got pretty excited about this because I thought I'd actually get a choice in something, even if it was only a bit of minor flavour dialogue where the other rogues agreed or disagreed with my decision. One of the characters lays out her plan and directly asks you whether you're for or against it. The game even brings up a special UI button you have to press to make your choice.

    Except there's only one button. "Yes". The game goes out of its way to set up a situation in which your character's agency matters, and then completely denies it. It's so much worse for that fact that they force you to press a button to make your character act in a way that you might not even agree with. It almost feels like one of those joke RPG text boxes that keeps looping until you select the right choice. They had a perfect opportunity, right down to the custom UI elements, to inject just a tiny bit of roleplay into the game, but instead they turned it into a harsh underlining of just how little your own agency matters.

  12. #32
    Quote Originally Posted by Stromgarde View Post
    Gear improving visually over time when playing RPGs is a staple mechanic.
    So are the many classic RPGs that don't have character models visually upgrade continuous are.. what? Not actually RPGs suddenly?

  13. #33
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    so what is oblivion not an rpg now to because i can get ebony gear in the start from a single enemy?

  14. #34
    Don't RP servers serve this purpose? Maybe you'd receive less negative feedback if you narrowed down your argument to just RP servers..

    I do feel ya tho... I never bother to transmog gear when I level so I often look just as noobish as any other person not the mythic dragonslayer that I really am.
    It's been a while actually since I've received a message from scrapbot...need to drink more i guess.
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  15. #35
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    I mean, giving people the ability to make their character look how they want and not have every forced to look the same from low level to high level due to a shitty pool of Transmog seems far more RPGish than not.

    My lvl 1 Paladin DnD Pen and Paper character looked like a Paladin. not a peasant swathed in Rags.

  16. #36
    There's really not much more to say in this thread. It all boils down to the same ol same ol: People trying to tell other people how to play the game.

  17. #37
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    Quote Originally Posted by Stromgarde View Post
    This game can barely be called a proper RPG now. The devs only use the bare essentials so it can flow properly.

    Was questing tonight on my low level character and saw a level 14 hunter that looked like he was level 100. Apparently a recent change removed even more restriction from mogging. Proper visual equipment progression seems to be something both the community at large and devs don't give a single shit about.

    Just another change in a long list of them that makes me care less about this game. I get it though, the game is old as dirt and at this point the devs and suits above them will basically trip over themselves to please as many people still playing as possible, even if the changes are terrible from a game design standpoint (well, except when it comes to class design as dev egos are more important than anything in that area). I don't expect many people here to sympathize with me, either.

    /rant
    One of my favorite youtubers made a video on your post.
    Maybe you would like to see it?

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  18. #38
    Quote Originally Posted by Stromgarde View Post
    This game can barely be called a proper RPG now. The devs only use the bare essentials so it can flow properly.

    Was questing tonight on my low level character and saw a level 14 hunter that looked like he was level 100. Apparently a recent change removed even more restriction from mogging. Proper visual equipment progression seems to be something both the community at large and devs don't give a single shit about.

    Just another change in a long list of them that makes me care less about this game. I get it though, the game is old as dirt and at this point the devs and suits above them will basically trip over themselves to please as many people still playing as possible, even if the changes are terrible from a game design standpoint (well, except when it comes to class design as dev egos are more important than anything in that area). I don't expect many people here to sympathize with me, either.

    /rant
    If you can't look fab with a level 20 transmog you clearly aren't trying hard enough.

    I assume the person had on the default level 20 gear you get for an allied race, which is the same models as used for a 110 character boost from what I've seen.

  19. #39
    Quote Originally Posted by Powerogue View Post
    If you can't look fab with a level 20 transmog you clearly aren't trying hard enough.

    I assume the person had on the default level 20 gear you get for an allied race, which is the same models as used for a 110 character boost from what I've seen.
    It could've also been the pre-Legion Invasion gear that is moggable at any level.

  20. #40
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    At least that player used transmog, I still see so many heirloom default graphics running around even during Trial of style where it was FREE to tmog.

    Now I figure not everyone has a Yak mount to do it on the fly, but heirlooms stay with you from 1-110 if you upgraded them.

    I also like the holiday transmogs, it just is extra silly but it works since it's like 1-2 weeks per year per holiday.

    We just had Valentine and Lunar fest back to back dress transmogs, and Noblegarden is next I believe. (items used to be white, so you had to regain them but I don't mind actually doing the holiday stuff again after so many years)
    Last edited by Teri; 2018-03-11 at 01:36 AM.

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