Turn Prisons Into Colleges

[Zython]

I take that as a compliment you know, someone old and wise talking to dreamers who have nothing but rose-tinted glasses believing the world is full of starry-eyed good people. You know the ultimate joke that ended with Ann Frank? She believed that people were also good... then she learned the hard way how wrong she was as she was forced into a death camp.

Again, people aren't in prison because they were planting flowers for an old lady, getting cats down from trees, or playing hopscotch in a back yard. We have a culture problem plain and fucking simple. We show fantasized versions of gangsters nonstop on the television, show how easy it is to make money from it, bring up single mothered children with a media mindset that a cowboy esque gangster is the way to be a real man and wonder why the hell we have such a loose cannon problem with the youth and overflowing prisons.

Well, I will say it IS a cultural problem. The problem is that America refuses to let go of a culture of white supremacy and destructive avarice. So we insist on destroying black communities so that Jim Crow-era lynchings and antebellum slavery can continue.

Now, I know you'll call me a "lying (((globalist)))" or whatever, so I brought some proof.

Evidence 1
Evidence 2
Evidence 3

Is it any wonder we have so many convicts when people stand to profit from having them?

[Draco-Onis]

Its just weird to complain about the crime rate when its been collapsing. Its like people do not know what is going on.

So are you saying that we should be happy with being the country with highest prison population in the world? because it hasn't collapsed to the point where we can say that we don't have tons of room to improve.

[Sky High]

I take that as a compliment you know, someone old and wise talking to dreamers who have nothing but rose-tinted glasses believing the world is full of starry-eyed good people. You know the ultimate joke that ended with Ann Frank? She believed that people were also good... then she learned the hard way how wrong she was as she was forced into a death camp.

Again, people aren't in prison because they were planting flowers for an old lady, getting cats down from trees, or playing hopscotch in a back yard. We have a culture problem plain and fucking simple. We show fantasized versions of gangsters nonstop on the television, show how easy it is to make money from it, bring up single mothered children with a media mindset that a cowboy esque gangster is the way to be a real man and wonder why the hell we have such a loose cannon problem with the youth and overflowing prisons.

Oh grandpa, take your meds and be quite.

Yes guys it’s the media that makes Timmy from the subburbs into a crack dealing gangster. I’m just gonna hazard a guess that the arguements that video games make you into a mass shooter are absurd to you, but music and movies isn’t, cuz reasons guuuuuyz.

[DSRilk]

the idea is to recoup their taxes by keeping them in the state to work.

You mean in terms of offering free in-state tuition? Unless it comes with a requirement that they stay in-state, good luck with that. Our society is far too mobile for that to be a good gamble. Combine that with the fact that over 50% of college grads return to live with their parents these days (according to Pew), plus those likely to move back to their hometown area anyway, and I find it unlikely that tactic will pay off.

[Draco-Onis]

You mean in terms of offering free in-state tuition? Unless it comes with a requirement that they stay in-state, good luck with that. Our society is far too mobile for that to be a good gamble. Combine that with the fact that over 50% of college grads return to live with their parents these days (according to Pew), plus those likely to move back to their hometown area anyway, and I find it unlikely that tactic will pay off.

We used to do this in the past giving high school education, trade schools and other programs in prisons it was very effective. In the hysteria of the 90's such programs were cut, we added more stupid laws in the name of being tough on crime as such recidivism and incarceration rates sky rocketed.

[Xandrigity]

From what I understand high school or GED programs are already provided as well as vocational schools what more would be needed?

[Doctor Amadeus]

Better Idea! Turn College into Prison. Nobody gets out unless they get 100% correct on all test during a course.

[Themius]

I take that as a compliment you know, someone old and wise talking to dreamers who have nothing but rose-tinted glasses believing the world is full of starry-eyed good people. You know the ultimate joke that ended with Ann Frank? She believed that people were also good... then she learned the hard way how wrong she was as she was forced into a death camp.

Again, people aren't in prison because they were planting flowers for an old lady, getting cats down from trees, or playing hopscotch in a back yard. We have a culture problem plain and fucking simple. We show fantasized versions of gangsters nonstop on the television, show how easy it is to make money from it, bring up single mothered children with a media mindset that a cowboy esque gangster is the way to be a real man and wonder why the hell we have such a loose cannon problem with the youth and overflowing prisons.

it isn't a compliment.

You sound like an old bitter man who refuses to change with times.

- - - Updated - - -

You mean in terms of offering free in-state tuition? Unless it comes with a requirement that they stay in-state, good luck with that. Our society is far too mobile for that to be a good gamble. Combine that with the fact that over 50% of college grads return to live with their parents these days (according to Pew), plus those likely to move back to their hometown area anyway, and I find it unlikely that tactic will pay off.

In new york it actually works like this you have to stay and work in new york for x number of years and if you move then you have to pay.

[Very Tired]

So why exactly would an employer hire an ex-con rather than one of the other hundreds of recent college grads?

[PosPosPos]

I guess we are just going to gloss over that free k-12 public education they obviously took so seriously in the first place. But hey, let's reward their poor life choices, and possible harm committed to other members of society, by giving them more free education!

Reason #1029234887262 why we should not govern, nor dictate policy, based on feels. However, if you still feel criminals deserve higher education, you're more than welcome to pay for their college out of your own wallet, when they are released parole or after the serve their sentences. Or, is this just a good idea when other people are paying for it?

I mean, the US already has to subsidize the welfare of alt-righters and Neo-Nazis, so sponsoring education for ordinary criminals wouldn't be that far off. In fact, the latter is a worthier cause because at least ordinary criminals have this leeway to reform and contribute to society, unlike the former two groups.

[Deleted]

So, at a time where students can't afford education as it is, teachers don't get paid enough... We want to give education to inmates. Remind me again, where the money comes from, and why it would go there instead of to the people who are already trying to do that?

I think education is great, but I also enjoy a good fiction book too.

Liberals: America has enough room and money for millions of "dreamers".
also Liberals: Educating inmates is a good fiction book.

[vindicatorx]

They already offer some educational options that not only give them some sort of education, they also give a reduced sentence. You are batshit crazy if you are giving a free college education to inmates, while the rest of us who are law abiding drown in student loan debt, is going to fly.

[Torto]

So let's reward criminals with free higher education, what could go wrong?

This registers high on my dumb-idea-o-meter

[Themius]

You sound like an inexperienced, uneducated, overzealous child demanding to take the reigns. I'd rather be old and bitter than young and oblivious.

- - - Updated - - -



Better question.

Why would you punish a kid that hasn't done anything wrong and paid their way through college accumulating massive debt by giving the job instead to the child rapist?

Young and put together is what I am. I am not oblivious of shit, older people tend to be the ones oblivious as they feel their experiences trump all despite times ever changing.

It's like saying "ooh we had dial up back in the old days what's with all this fiber shit. good ol dial up is good enough!"

[RapBreon]

1. Education is linked with reduced recidivism rates, which benefits all of society.

2. Some prisons already do allow you to obtain degrees while you're there, in no small part due to the above. I'm just unsure which ones or the rules surrounding it.

3. Punishments requiring a prison sentence are supposed to be a restriction of your personal liberty and freedom (i.e. that's the punishment, prison is the method). Prisoners under the Western philosophy of law are still supposed to be entitled to food, shelter, healthcare, etc. I'm not so sure allowing a prisoner to get an education (as their choices and the quality of that education would be limited) really goes against the intended principle.

4. Prison is still a shit and dangerous place with the above in mind.

[Deleted]

And who will pay for this?

[Deldavala]

Not going to churn through 12 pages, but will give some insight from a country that already does that.

In Norway you can take education as part of your rehabilitation. This is done so you can actually be a functioning member of society when you get out, instead of going back to your old ways. Its voluntarily and you have a broad section of fields you can chose. Some chose to learn more practical skills, like driving a truck/big boat, operating heavy machinery and so forth. Others pursue economics, social studies, language and so forth.

One of the most proggresive prisons we have is Bastøy. It is an island, completly run by prisoners. I was working with them a few years back and met a plethora of different people, where some where serving harsh sentences. But now they have work and might be ready for the world outside. For instance, the ferry that goes to shore and picks up prison guards/visitors is operated by one of the inmates.

[Forogil]

ttps://www.nytimes.com/2018/03/06/opinion/prisons-colleges-education.html[/url]

Imagine if prisons looked like the grounds of universities. Instead of languishing in cells, incarcerated people sat in classrooms and learned about climate science or poetry — just like college students. Or even with them.

This would be a boon to prisoners across the country, a vast majority of whom do not have a high school diploma. And it could help shrink our prison population. While racial disparities in arrests and convictions are alarming, education level is a far stronger predictor of future incarceration than race.

There is just a minor flaw with this proposal: intelligence is a strong predictor for both getting an education - and not getting incarcerated.

Thus many prisoners will have problem completing the education, and focusing on getting some job-relevant skill seems better than having them in poetry and climate science classes. I'm not denying that some might benefit from it - but it would make more sense to give them subsidized education earlier to avoid sending them to prison.

[Deleted]

Except there are tax breaks for hiring ex cons already in the USA, my boss was a non-violent felon. If you were a violent felon, you're pretty much fucked, and rightfully so. Don't want to fuck up your life? Don't fuck up your life. That would be like someone willingly cutting off a leg with a chain saw and demanding to get disability.

I dont like that argument "dont want to fuck up your life, then dont ever do anything wrong"
people could have been in a hard place in their life, t hey could have fallen in with a bad crowd and so done something that at the time seemd okay, or where forced to do it.
And so because of that, you are forever "cursed" with the acts of what you did. People can change, and forceing people into a negativ spiral does not help anyone.

[Deleted]

So let's reward criminals with free higher education, what could go wrong?

This registers high on my dumb-idea-o-meter

that's kinda like saying you reward criminals with free housing and food

And who will pay for this?

well, the idea is that education helps reduce recidism, so less crime->less criminals->less people we have to keep in prison and less crime in general, which would save at least some of that money spend before, and even more importantly would better protect people (less crime=good, and i'm sure everyone would prefer not to get robbed in the first place instead of knowing their robber got a harsh prison sentence out of it).

Also , one mustn't make the mistake of seeing WOW, this guys education cost him 500k, so every prisoner we educate will cost us 500k, it's not like a) that is the cheapest option or b) the state would ever pay full price on something like that.

what i agree with though is that the cost of education in general is a problem, people shouldn't be half a million, or even 100k in debt to get an education level that let's them function in a modern society, and let's be honest here, in places where the state pays all (or most) of it it isn't done because the state has too much money, higher educated people help drive society forward, which is what leads to us all being richer in the end