Nvidia are being bad again

[Vash The Stampede]

Seems Nvidia is pulling an Intel and trying to push AMD out of the market. Kyle Bennett from HardOCP is calling them out. GeForce Partner Program is going to lock card makers to Nvidia products, ONLY.

https://www.hardocp.com/article/2018...onsumer_choice

The crux of the issue with NVIDIA GPP comes down to a single requirement in order to be part of GPP. In order to have access to the GPP program, its partners must have its "Gaming Brand Aligned Exclusively With GeForce." I have read documents with this requirement spelled out on it.

What would it mean to have your "Gaming Brand Aligned Exclusively With GeForce?" The example that will likely resonate best with HardOCP readers is the ASUS Republic of Gamers brand. I have no knowledge if ASUS is a GPP partner, I am simply using the ROG brand hypothetically. If ASUS is an NVIDIA GPP partner, and it wants to continue to use NVIDIA GPUs in its ROG branded video cards, computers, and laptops, it can no longer sell any other company's GPUs in ROG products. So if ASUS want to keep building NVIDIA-based ROG video cards, it can no longer sell AMD-based ROG video cards, and be a GPP partner.

Which means their GPP program is...

• 1.) They think that it has terms that are likely illegal.
• 2.) GPP is likely going to tremendously hurt consumers' choices.
• 3.) It will disrupt business with the companies that they are currently doing business with, namely AMD and Intel.

One has to wonder why Nvidia would do such a thing in their position? My guess, maybe it has something to do with Intel planing to enter the market? But Kyle said it best. Have fun discussing this.

The motivations behind this GPP move by NVIDIA is somewhat confusing at first blush. Why would a company that owns ~70% market share, and has no true high-end competition make a move like this?

[Remilia]

A partial correction, it doesn't make AIBs only into Nvidia only. It essentially forces all gaming brand of that company to be only associated with Nvidia, which is still a huge problem. The gaming brand sells to the more uninformed and that's what matters. It also means that the AIBs can not market AMD or Intel's stuff as gaming. It's almost on the level of Intel bad but that's not exactly praise worthy. It's essentially still using market power as extortion anyways.

The marketing is very potent and that's all that matters for Nvidia. Corsair for example, sold a Gaming branded PSU, GS series if I remember correctly, and just because of that branding it sold more relative to their other line up despite it being relatively a meh PSU.

[mrgreenthump]

This is nothing new though, they've always restricted smaller partners that have even looked at AMD(XFX and Club3D comes to mind). Now though, it's seemingly expanded to giants like Asus, Gigabyte and MSI.

As @Remilia said, marketing is where it's at currently. Nvidia can't really gain much more in the consumer space when it comes to gaming, they already have the superior product. Your average user doesn't know about fps or frametimes, they see gaming on the box, so it must be good.

I'd expect them to be increasingly agressive while time goes by, they want everyone to not even think AMD is good at gaming. Especially if we start to see Vulkan get traction and the gap between Geforce and Radeon is shrunk by a landslide. Though Vulkan may still be a good while away, due to Nvidia pushing a lot of money into Gameworks, which basically forces participating devs to DX11, as they don't really want to do the work to learn a new API, when you get ready made utilities with just selling a bit of your soul.

[Deleted]

AMD with their 9% market share among gamers is already irrelevant and nobody cares about them. They chose mining virtual money over providing entertainment, fuck amd tbh

Wow someone's salty. Go make some research about your statement, you will be surprised with what you find.


@Ot I wonder how is that even legal ? Didn't Intel get court order to pay AMD reparations for exactly this?

[mrgreenthump]

wonder how is that even legal ? Didn't Intel get court order to pay AMD reparations for exactly this?

AFAIK, Intel gave rebates to not use AMD, so it's not really the same. Nvidia just wouldn't supply their services to partners, if they are not compliant.

It's not illegal in traditional sense, but competition laws may have something to say about this, especially in EU.

[Evildeffy]

AFAIK, Intel gave rebates to not use AMD, so it's not really the same. Nvidia just wouldn't supply their services to partners, if they are not compliant.

It's not illegal in traditional sense, but competition laws may have something to say about this, especially in EU.

Actually Intel used not JUST rebates but also direct bribery and penalties in their customer "loyalty programme" if they offered anything AMD, Dell was VERY vocal about this IIRC.

It actually is rather illegal since the cards in question were originally built for games and are stated as such.
Without PC gamers we'd still be running software GPUs just storing colour palettes to use from and let the CPU do all the work.

Since there are only 2 manufacturers of gaming graphics GPUs in the world (Intel and Matrox deffo have not) it would be anti-competitive and anti-trust laws would instantly hammer down on it, though in that meantime the damage can already be done.
Since the entire political and judicial bodies around the world without exception as slow as a Trabant vs. a McLaren (nVidia) they may already inflict heavy damage upon AMD and the vendors not to act along with this bullying tactic.

The only way this backfires is if all the larger production AIBs simply put refuse, leaving nVidia to actually destroy their own market.
But that's unlikely to happen as nVidia is too big and so are the big AIBs, they live with and off each other.

nVidia will at some point reap what it sows though as in the tech industry this ALWAYS happens at some point, none are above the wrath of nerds.

[Deleted]

nVidia will at some point reap what it sows though as in the tech industry this ALWAYS happens at some point, none are above the wrath of nerds.

One can hope, historically though nvidia sold worse cards for more, year after AMD and people still bought way more of nvidia than amd..

[Evildeffy]

One can hope, historically though nvidia sold worse cards for more, year after AMD and people still bought way more of nvidia than amd..

At some point everyone pays their debts, they may seem invulnerable now but everything has cracks.
BlackBerry at some point was one of the most popular devices in existence .. where are they now?

Intel used to blackmail partners to keep AMD from selling more units even though AMD had technologically superior products now every release and counter-release by both companies Intel is being scrutinized under a microscope to check if they aren't doing the same shenanigans again.

An Interesting note is the 1,3 billion orso that Intel owes AMD has yet to be paid because they're trying to draw it out in the EU courts and claiming the penalty was too high and they've been successful in drawing it out this long and dealing damage to AMD continuously even now because of it but this can also hilariously backfire as the EU can also tax the fined amount for it not being paid up till this point.
When the hammer does fall again when the EU decides the same outcome (and it will) it could potentially be an amount that is considerably larger than it was before.

Intel is playing U.S. court games which partially work in the E.U. in the sense of stalling but unlike U.S. courts that are more open to debate, technicalities etc. that stuff doesn't work that way in the EU and it will be hilarious if the fine has (even though Intel will likely STILL not even feel it financially) triple or more.

[SoulForge]

AMD with their 9% market share among gamers is already irrelevant and nobody cares about them. They chose mining virtual money over providing entertainment, fuck amd tbh

They choose? Wtf are you even talking about? Both AMD and NVidia cards can be used for mining currency. And you SHOULD care. Competition drives a healthy market. We could honestly use a few more.

I miss you 3DFX!

[grexly75]

Will be interesting, and even more so when the likes of Asus, Gigabyte and MSI are big enough that they could just ditch Nvidia altogether and go AMD.. Nvidia better be careful or that 70% market share that they have enjoyed for so long could rapidly decrease..

[Vash The Stampede]

They choose? Wtf are you even talking about? Both AMD and NVidia cards can be used for mining currency. And you SHOULD care. Competition drives a healthy market. We could honestly use a few more.

I miss you 3DFX!

I think 3DFX or their assets were bought by Nvidia. My guess is that Nvidia can only see their market share go down hill, since they have ~70% of it. It's not like they can gain more market share. Plus Intel has made it very clear that they're entering the graphics market in some way. Nvidia is pushing Intel CPUs out of the server market, as their GPU's seem like a better alternative in some work loads. Right now Intel is using Vega, but I expect that to be temporary. Eventually they'll have their own GPU's.

AMD will get their act together like they did with Ryzen, and Intel is a juggernaut. Intel has the capital to make competitive GPUs. Plus the cryptomarket won't always depend on GPU's for mining. I think I see why Nvidia is trying to lock vendors to go Nvidia or go home.

[RobertoCarlos]

Big shark eating the little fish.

Capitalism working as intended. At least Nvidia offer good products unlike EA for example

[Low Hanging Fruit]

I never really understood loyality to companies that really only care about indiviuals because they buy shit from them. Both of these companies will take full advantage of you for your pocketbook. So who cares. I consider them all greedy as shit. I just do my research and buy what makes the most sense on my budget. Pretty simple.

[Life-Binder]

theres nothing illegal here, they want their funds to go into Nvidia-only brands


a non-issue

[Zmaniac17]

I think 3DFX or their assets were bought by Nvidia. My guess is that Nvidia can only see their market share go down hill, since they have ~70% of it. It's not like they can gain more market share. Plus Intel has made it very clear that they're entering the graphics market in some way. Nvidia is pushing Intel CPUs out of the server market, as their GPU's seem like a better alternative in some work loads. Right now Intel is using Vega, but I expect that to be temporary. Eventually they'll have their own GPU's.

AMD will get their act together like they did with Ryzen, and Intel is a juggernaut. Intel has the capital to make competitive GPUs. Plus the cryptomarket won't always depend on GPU's for mining. I think I see why Nvidia is trying to lock vendors to go Nvidia or go home.

In the near future Ethereum is going proof of stake and that will put a pretty huge damper on GFX card mining. I think these companies should be looking at building ASICS. But I doubt they'll take the risk.

I feel like AMD is the only thing that has kept graphics cards reasonably priced. So this does worry me.

[MonsieuRoberts]

It's always annoying to see companies circumvent one-upping one another's products the old fashioned way (Harder, better, faster, stronger) and just throw vague bureaucracy & obfuscated programs in the way of development and progress. I know AMD is not competing with the best that Nvidia has to offer, but my point is easily transferable across products.

I want equity between brands so they have a means to compete with one another, to actually deliver products that make consumers like me happier, products that I can see were made to trounce the competition. I don't want "partner programs" allowing companies to achieve dominance through signed documents and complacent development.

Not really a fan of using back doors like this to stifle competition & innovation. When companies compete traditionally (By making a better product than the other companies), consumers win.

[Remilia]

theres nothing illegal here, they want their funds to go into Nvidia-only brands


a non-issue

Except it's not Nvidia's brand, it's the manufacturer's brand. It also bars the company from using that brand for other companies. Asus for example has Republic of Gamer or ROG as their gaming brand. That is Asus's brand that they created. GeForce is the brand Nvidia created for their gaming brand. Branding means a lot and it also means that they cannot create another gaming brand too because it's a blanket non singular statement. It also would cost millions to market a new brand. Forcing manufacturers to do something or they suffer a big disadvantage is illegal.

[ZazuuPriest]

Ive had 2 experiences with AMD rigs and I can tell you ill never buy a single one of their products again. Straight garbage

[Vash The Stampede]

Ive had 2 experiences with AMD rigs and I can tell you ill never buy a single one of their products again. Straight garbage

This is very relevant to this topic.

[Vynny]

Will be interesting, and even more so when the likes of Asus, Gigabyte and MSI are big enough that they could just ditch Nvidia altogether and go AMD.. Nvidia better be careful or that 70% market share that they have enjoyed for so long could rapidly decrease..

Yeah, this doesn't seem like a smart decision for Nvidia to make since they just lost market share to AMD last quarter. Yeah Nvidia still have the vast majority market share, but that can change in a few years. With mining taking off in a way that it's gonna stay relevant, and AMD finally moving beyond the strategy of just scaling up their GCN architecture that's going on 7 years old Asus, Gigabyte, and MSI would be idiots not to at least consider AMD a better partner for future prospects than Nvidia.