It's beyond stupid that the Legion was finished without us fighting Sargeras

[Deleted]

look at the bigger picture from blizzard. He is imprisoned. In the history of WoW, how many imprisoned people have remained incarcerated. Its a setup for a future expansion, shortfall of content. They can just say something along the lines of "illidian got bored and took a walk, sargeras walked out"

[Volardelis]

Yeah okay but you know what I mean. At least we fought him. I would have been perfectly fine with the Pantheon imprisoning / killing Sargeras, if only we just got to fight him for a little bit.

But it is a massive difference between an old god corrupted dragon and an actual planet sized titan. The reason we fight Argus the size that he is, is mostly because the seat does "shrink" down their bodies, you can see it happen to Sargeras during the final cinematic.

[Soulfighter101]

But we fought and killed two other Titans.

And also Blizzard should have explained what the deal with the titans is - how they're still alive and so powerful, why they are all so small now, whether they are actually living planets as Chronicles suggested or just ethereal souls like they seem to be in game.

Aggramar and the rest of the pantheon were already killed by Sargeras, because they are beings of pure arcane borne from planets (read: world souls), and fel beats arcane in magic paper scissors. Norgannon managed to save their essences at the last second as their forms were being destroyed by a massive felstorm. Those essences fled around the universe, and the premise of Antorus, The Burning Throne is that Sargeras is almost done finding those remnants and has begun torturing the titans essences into submission, Aggramar having been prime example. The reason we fight Aggramar is that he's a shadow of his former self; the entire pantheon is as well, not to mention having come fresh from titan torture camp. Argus? He's been being drained to power the legions infinite armies, obviously that leaves people a bit weakened.

TL;DR Titans already died once, pantheon we see is reborn titans that are missing portions of their power (and have an intrinsic weakness to fel). Argus we see is drained and damaged from being a Legion battery.

[cparle87]

Aggramar and the rest of the pantheon were already killed by Sargeras, because they are beings of pure arcane borne from planets (read: world souls), and fel beats arcane in magic paper scissors. Norgannon managed to save their essences at the last second as their forms were being destroyed by a massive felstorm. Those essences fled around the universe, and the premise of Antorus, The Burning Throne is that Sargeras is almost done finding those remnants and has begun torturing the titans essences into submission, Aggramar having been prime example. The reason we fight Aggramar is that he's a shadow of his former self; the entire pantheon is as well, not to mention having come fresh from titan torture camp. Argus? He's been being drained to power the legions infinite armies, obviously that leaves people a bit weakened.

TL;DR Titans already died once, pantheon we see is reborn titans that are missing portions of their power (and have an intrinsic weakness to fel). Argus we see is drained and damaged from being a Legion battery.

You've put that very well. There's lots of people going around complaining about us being too strong cause we "killed a Titan" or complaining that we didn't get to fight Sargeras. There were a lot, A LOT, of extenuating circumstances that brought Aggramar and Argus down to a level we could compete with, even with a lot of help. There were no such things for Sargeras himself.

[Deleted]

Good luck facing off vs a titan larger then the planet itself...

I'm intrigued how you'd plan it out....4 wings? Start at his left big toe larger then orgrimmar itself?

We defeated an corrupted Avatar of Aggramar and a new born baby Titan. He would have 1 shot us without question.

Sargeras will be back when the void lords come knocking on our door. His soul perpose in the WoW universe is to stop the void.

[Deleted]

No it is not. We are not supose to fight a titan. We should not be able to be even close to him, He can cleave planets, We on the other hand, just like the start of every pokemon season will soon take 10 sec to kill a fucking bear or a wolf. We should not be able to fist fight a titan

[huth]

At least we fought Deathwing and finished him off. Cataclysm would have been fucking stupid if it ended with Thrall Kamehameha'ing Deathwing.

Which it did. Our contribution to killing Deathwing was prying his armour off and generally being a nuisance to him while Thrall did all actual damage.

[Eazy]

archimonde and Kil'Jaeden aren't cosmic level beings that can cut planets in half when they feel like it.

It's legit like saying "How come we haven't fought Galactus yet? We already beat Venom and Sabertooth!"

That comment is pointless, because we killed Argus, who was casting End of All things -> which probably could destroy whole galaxy/universe/whatever.

[Gibbzyo]

Sargeras, I've come to bargain.

Can`t believe no1 picked up this easter egg. I lold so hard.

[cparle87]

That comment is pointless, because we killed Argus, who was casting End of All things -> which probably could destroy whole galaxy/universe/whatever.

Considering it doesn't even kill the Titans standing 50 feet from him I doubt its effect was much more than "kill the mortals right in front of him." People really hype up Argus WAY too much because of his nickname.

[Eazy]

Considering it doesn't even kill the Titans standing 50 feet from him I doubt its effect was much more than "kill the mortals right in front of him." People really hype up Argus WAY too much because of his nickname.

Not really, because it didn't happen, we stopped him.

[Tiwack]

Which it did. Our contribution to killing Deathwing was prying his armour off and generally being a nuisance to him while Thrall did all actual damage.

And it allowed for some interesting fights and mechanics compared to the generic formula, run of the mill tank and spanks.

Would you rather encounter and engage Sargeras in some kind of fight or not at all?

[cparle87]

Not really, because it didn't happen, we stopped him.

Next time you wipe on the fight take a look around at the Titans. They weren't touched by his spell. I doubt a spell that doesn't extent 50 ft will destroy the universe. =-)

[Eazy]

Next time you wipe on the fight take a look around at the Titans. They weren't touched by his spell. I doubt a spell that doesn't extent 50 ft will destroy the universe. =-)

Mate, we stopped him before he casted that thing. I'm not talking about that scythe phase where he kill us all.

[cparle87]

Mate, we stopped him before he casted that thing. I'm not talking about that scythe phase where he kill us all.

Neither am I. I'm talking about the big ass cast he begins casting after he kills us that we interrupt once we're alive again. Isn't that the 'end of all things' you were referring to? If you ever actually wipe on it (my guild embarrassingly did once because we all assumed someone else was going to stop it) you'll notice it doesn't have the range to even hit the Titans in their chairs.

[Eazy]

Neither am I. I'm talking about the big ass cast he begins casting after he kills us that we interrupt once we're alive again. Isn't that the 'end of all things' you were referring to? If you ever actually wipe on it (my guild embarrassingly did once because we all assumed someone else was going to stop it) you'll notice it doesn't have the range to even hit the Titans in their chairs.

lore =/= gameplay

[Stellarus]

Weren't you warned several times not to make threads like this?

And I think it was a cool ending to a decent expansion, too bad you didn't like it.

Oh look it's the forum police!

[cparle87]

lore =/= gameplay

But assuming that his spell has infinite range and will exterminate the universe somehow makes sense? How many enemies had horrible titles, the annihilator, the breaker, the destroyer, etc? People are inserting WAY too much headcanon into this. It took Sargeras 10,000 years to travel to Azeroth the old fashioned way.

[Qualia]

Edit: you two are fast When I started typing this, Eazy's post was the last one in this thread.

Mate, we stopped him before he casted that thing. I'm not talking about that scythe phase where he kill us all.

"End of All Things" is what he was talking about, though, not the scythe phase. If you just ignore EoAT and let him finish casting it, look around before the encounter ends: all of us will die, but the Titans will still be around, the Seat of the Pantheon will still be around, Azeroth and Sargeras' cloud (presumably even Sargeras himself) will still be around. That might show that the spell either isn't as destructive as the characters hyped it up, or has a very limited range - either way, it didn't seem like EoAT actually end everything at all. You can check it in game, or have a look at this clip.

Personally, I'm skeptical about the whole thing. We are essentially discussing about a game-mechanic based on in-game characters' opinions (which is subjected to being wrong), so in-game stuffs need to be taken into account. However, how far should it go? Which in-game things should we take to be canon? One, like @cparle87, may claim that the Titans, Azeroth and everything that would still be existing before the encounter ends is the proof the spell isn't literally the end of all things. Another may say that it was just Blizzard forgot or being too lazy to create an entire new skybox for ~3s of an encounter. Then again, one may say that if Blizzard wanted to portray EoAT to be as deadly as it was, they could always go with the Cataclysm way - having everything fade into black, implying that there isn't anything left for us. I don't think it'll be easy for people to reach a conclusion that way, if we will ever reach one at all without any input from sources outside of in-game mechanics (i.e: novels, interviews, etc.).

Game-mechanic asides, lore-wise, I do think it seems a bit illogical for EoAT to be able to destroy everything in the universe. Sure, maybe it doesn't use raw destructive power (since none of the Titans, including Sargeras, has shown capability anywhere near that level), but some other mechanics (i.e: affecting reality's integrity like the Scepter of Sargeras, or drain the life of everything affected) instead. However, would Sargeras really want to keep something that can kill him or Azeroth at any moment around? Or leave him unattended after helping him to wake up? That doesn't sound right, so I assume that EoAT can kill everything, but it either isn't absolute (can be resisted / countered if the affected targets are powerful enough, for example - which would make sense going by how WoW abilities work lore-wise) or has a rather limited range. I can very well be wrong, though.

[cparle87]

Edit: you two are fast When I started typing this, Eazy's post was the last one in this thread.


"End of All Things" is what he was talking about, though, not the scythe phase. If you just ignore EoAT and let him finish casting it, look around before the encounter ends: all of us will die, but the Titans will still be around, the Seat of the Pantheon will still be around, Azeroth and Sargeras' cloud (presumably even Sargeras himself) will still be around. That might show that the spell either isn't as destructive as the characters hyped it up, or has a very limited range - either way, it didn't seem like EoAT actually end everything at all. You can check it in game, or have a look at this clip.

Personally, I'm skeptical about the whole thing. We are essentially discussing about a game-mechanic based on in-game characters' opinions (which is subjected to being wrong), so in-game stuffs need to be taken into account. However, how far should it go? Which in-game things should we take to be canon? One, like @cparle87, may claim that the Titans, Azeroth and everything that would still be existing before the encounter ends is the proof the spell isn't literally the end of all things. Another may say that it was just Blizzard forgot or being too lazy to create an entire new skybox for ~3s of an encounter. Then again, one may say that if Blizzard wanted to portray EoAT to be as deadly as it was, they could always go with the Cataclysm way - having everything fade into black, implying that there isn't anything left for us. I don't think it'll be easy for people to reach a conclusion that way, if we will ever reach one at all without any input from sources outside of in-game mechanics (i.e: novels, interviews, etc.).

Game-mechanic asides, lore-wise, I do think it seems a bit illogical for EoAT to be able to destroy everything in the universe. Sure, maybe it doesn't use raw destructive power (since none of the Titans, including Sargeras, has shown capability anywhere near that level), but some other mechanics (i.e: affecting reality's integrity like the Scepter of Sargeras, or drain the life of everything affected) instead. However, would Sargeras really want to keep something that can kill him or Azeroth at any moment around? Or leave him unattended after helping him to wake up? That doesn't sound right, so I assume that EoAT can kill everything, but it either isn't absolute (can be resisted / countered if the affected targets are powerful enough, for example - which would make sense going by how WoW abilities work lore-wise) or has a rather limited range. I can very well be wrong, though.

Took the words right out of my mouth. I've seen this argument made before about Argus' relative power level, but I don't think anyone has ever put it as well as you did.