Demo Changes!

[FelPlague]

Yes when you keep going on about it over and over and over and over and over and..., then its derailing and obnoxious.

So discussing Demonolgy changes
in a demonolgy changes discussion thread
is derailing the demonolgy changes thread
with demonolgy changes discussion?
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[Deleted]

Affs dots dont all cost a secondary resource or are on a cd and are effectively limited to 1 target. Theyre apples and oranges

While that is true, the big issue is always the burst (if the target stays alive for 20+ seconds it's not really an issue). Affliction doesn't have quick burst after a targetswap either, unless you just use UA+MG.

I do prefer we'd have options in all specs to have options for burst in case of required target swaps. But it's not like we will deal 0 damage during a swap, it's just mostly on the low priority target (same as affliction).

And lastly, shards for Demo are worth a lot less compared to affliction.

[FertsBlert]

While that is true, the big issue is always the burst (if the target stays alive for 20+ seconds it's not really an issue). Affliction doesn't have quick burst after a targetswap either, unless you just use UA+MG.

I do prefer we'd have options in all specs to have options for burst in case of required target swaps. But it's not like we will deal 0 damage during a swap, it's just mostly on the low priority target (same as affliction).

And lastly, shards for Demo are worth a lot less compared to affliction.

Really? Really? Demo literally does NOTHING without shards, HoG\Imps, Doggies, Short term guardians from Infernal\Doomguard and all of that is used to power the big nuke of TKC.

Without shards Demo tickles the mobs with Shadowbolt and Doom and maybe the Felguard does a little.

[Deleted]

Really? Really? Demo literally does NOTHING without shards, HoG\Imps, Doggies, Short term guardians from Infernal\Doomguard and all of that is used to power the big nuke of TKC.

Without shards Demo tickles the mobs with Shadowbolt and Doom and maybe the Felguard does a little.

And how many shards does demo get compared to Aff? Shittons of shards because we use it for everything... 1 shard means nothing for demo.

[Baconeggcheese]

While that is true, the big issue is always the burst (if the target stays alive for 20+ seconds it's not really an issue). Affliction doesn't have quick burst after a targetswap either, unless you just use UA+MG.

I do prefer we'd have options in all specs to have options for burst in case of required target swaps. But it's not like we will deal 0 damage during a swap, it's just mostly on the low priority target (same as affliction).

And lastly, shards for Demo are worth a lot less compared to affliction.

The difference being aff always has 2 dots on hand and can easily bank shards, whereas demo has ramp before it can even cast the dots and basically cant bank.

Reducing the max imps per hog to 3 will help with that but... yeah.

[Deleted]

How is bfa Demo in dungeons? Still has issue of being immobile turrets?

[Deleted]

The difference being aff always has 2 dots on hand and can easily bank shards, whereas demo has ramp before it can even cast the dots and basically cant bank.

Reducing the max imps per hog to 3 will help with that but... yeah.

Yeah sure, but when Aff wants to deal damage, it needs to spend SL?/Cor/Agony/Ua/T15 talent as GCD's before it can do stuf.

Demo, provided it has banked some shards and MC, can HoG(-3) + DB(+2) + HoG(-3) + felguard charge = pretty quick target switch. Maybe Implode the old imps and you have all your dps switched in 4 GCDs or so. While Agony is stil ramping up and if you take SL or a slow T15 talent, you need more GCDs for those too.

Lets be honest Warlock is always slow with rampup on rampup to target switch, atleast for BFA we take a step in the good direction for demo in this regard.

[Lucrece]

Yeah sure, but when Aff wants to deal damage, it needs to spend SL?/Cor/Agony/Ua/T15 talent as GCD's before it can do stuf.

Demo, provided it has banked some shards and MC, can HoG(-3) + DB(+2) + HoG(-3) + felguard charge = pretty quick target switch. Maybe Implode the old imps and you have all your dps switched in 4 GCDs or so. While Agony is stil ramping up and if you take SL or a slow T15 talent, you need more GCDs for those too.

Lets be honest Warlock is always slow with rampup on rampup to target switch, atleast for BFA we take a step in the good direction for demo in this regard.

You're not banking shards unless you want to lose substantial dps as any shadowbolt you're casting while banking shards is a wasted shard

[Baconeggcheese]

Yeah sure, but when Aff wants to deal damage, it needs to spend SL?/Cor/Agony/Ua/T15 talent as GCD's before it can do stuf.

Demo, provided it has banked some shards and MC, can HoG(-3) + DB(+2) + HoG(-3) + felguard charge = pretty quick target switch. Maybe Implode the old imps and you have all your dps switched in 4 GCDs or so. While Agony is stil ramping up and if you take SL or a slow T15 talent, you need more GCDs for those too.

Lets be honest Warlock is always slow with rampup on rampup to target switch, atleast for BFA we take a step in the good direction for demo in this regard.

You just dump UA's as aff because UA does an absolutely ridiculous amount of damage for what it is. Demo can only sit on shards for 2 globals max before it has to spend, it just can't do it.

[jackvii]

New build updates from glancing at the talent trees:

Destruction:
Flashover increases Conflag damage by 10% and one additional Backdraft charge.

Inferno replaces Hellfire: Rain of Fire has a 20% chance to generate a soul shard fragment

Demonology:

Raging Imps replaced with From the Shadows: Dreadstalkers increases shadowflame damage on the target by 25%

Demonic Commander is renamed Demonic Tyrant

No obvious Affliction changes so far

[Kirroth]

It's the non-talent changes that matter more this build. Dreadstalkers last for 12s, up from 8s. Molten Core is now Demonic Core; you have a 10% chance to gain a stack when an imp expires and a 100% chance to gain a stack when Dreadstalkers expire. So that's some nice refinement.

That said, I'm a little curious about how From the Shadows will work. It's obviously a temp debuff that increases the damage of your spells, but not your felguard or dreadstalkers. Do the wild imps do more damage? Unclear. How long does it last? ETA: 12s according to Discord. Might it combo well with Power Siphon, giving you on-demand instant Demonbolts for burst damage in the +25% window? Well, sure, but are Demonbolts strong enough for that to matter? Definitely going to need some testing reports on it.

[Deleted]

if soulstrike stays ill reroll to demo lol, dont fk it up blizz

[Verazh]

if soulstrike stays ill reroll to demo lol, dont fk it up blizz

I doubt its a SB replacer. It doesn't say it, and also I think they just didn't add a CD yet. IF it has a low CD it might be good, otherwise meh

[sugarfree]

It's the non-talent changes that matter more this build. Dreadstalkers last for 12s, up from 8s. Molten Core is now Demonic Core; you have a 10% chance to gain a stack when an imp expires and a 100% chance to gain a stack when Dreadstalkers expire. So that's some nice refinement.

That said, I'm a little curious about how From the Shadows will work. It's obviously a temp debuff that increases the damage of your spells, but not your felguard or dreadstalkers. Do the wild imps do more damage? Unclear. How long does it last? ETA: 12s according to Discord. Might it combo well with Power Siphon, giving you on-demand instant Demonbolts for burst damage in the +25% window? Well, sure, but are Demonbolts strong enough for that to matter? Definitely going to need some testing reports on it.

Concerned about FTS being another form of Demonic Empowerment. But the good thing about this buff being ingrained with a core spell rotation.

[alexchaos]

I feel like with the new demo changes, swapping target will be even easier. Take Demonic Calling, everytime you proc you insta cast free dogs and then insta cast a Demonbolt which gives 2 shards and having this proc twice can happen in which case you cast dogs>demonbolt>dogs>demonbolt and have 4 shards to dump on imps. Not saying it's always gonna happen but it's a possiblity.

Or if you want less RNG take Power Siphon and sacrifice imps whenever you want to swap target. Gives you 2 instant demonbolt for 4 shards to dump on imps/dogs.

Also managing all our new >1min cds will be primordial for fights with adds. Saving those for target swaps will help quite a lot in my opinion.

[Shandalar]

Pretty good changes.

I was worried about the spammy dreadstalkers and their no-iteration with the rest of the spells. Happy with the change.

Talent changes are all interestant too.

[garonne]

Pretty good changes.

I was worried about the spammy dreadstalkers and their no-iteration with the rest of the spells. Happy with the change.

Talent changes are all interestant too.

I feel like with the new demo changes, swapping target will be even easier. Take Demonic Calling, everytime you proc you insta cast free dogs and then insta cast a Demonbolt which gives 2 shards and having this proc twice can happen in which case you cast dogs>demonbolt>dogs>demonbolt and have 4 shards to dump on imps. Not saying it's always gonna happen but it's a possiblity.

Or if you want less RNG take Power Siphon and sacrifice imps whenever you want to swap target. Gives you 2 instant demonbolt for 4 shards to dump on imps/dogs.

Also managing all our new >1min cds will be primordial for fights with adds. Saving those for target swaps will help quite a lot in my opinion.

the dreadstalkers aren't spammable, they have a 20 sec cd and 12 sec duration.

- - - Updated - - -

Concerned about FTS being another form of Demonic Empowerment. But the good thing about this buff being ingrained with a core spell rotation.

the spell is basically a colossal smash for demo. Dreadstalkers have a CD and last only 12 secs (which is the duration of the buff)

[kaid]

Once you get your haste up chances are stalkers will be like on live where they live about as long as it takes their CD to come up to cast again. Once you hit that level it will be better than colossal smash because you won't be dealing with an unreliable proc that sometimes goes down for long gaps before procing again. Dreadstalkers is controllable and consistent so easier to figure when to drop your bigger damage bursts.

[garonne]

anyone know if the nether portal is still bugged? Is it giving a demon for each shard spent or is it still only giving a demon per cast of a shard spender?

[sugarfree]

How did you make that parallel. Two completely different things. DE is a mandatory, actively cast spell. FTS is an optional, passive talent.

Did not include it being optional. I’m thinking of it when you pick the talent. In general, I personally despise maintenance buff like Empowered Life Tap, Eradication and Shadow Embrace. And I believe this has a short duration as well? Since it depends on the dreadstalkers being out, then it is a maintenance buff. My main gripe on maintenance buffs is that their duration are too short. Wouldn’t mind it if they’re 20-30seconds. They are always on the edge and failing punishes you a lot.