Don't think I can do another expansion long grind

[Soon-TM]

I'm surprised that there aren't more ppl like the OP. The content stretching in Legion has been plain to see, and it encourages burnout for anyone who wants to be anything more than a "filthy casual". The first half of Legion was especially brutal, even worse than Vanilla imo.

[schwarzkopf]

In Legion its the same thing.

Odd - I didn't do any grinding at all in Legion. Zero.

I suppose if you choose to grind, then that's not a problem with the game.

[Lushious]

I hate it when I get kicked from a Mythic+ group when my artifact is only 76 and not 77, simply happens all the time

[clevin]

My solution to this will be to sub midway through. I don't raid etc so I don't need to start the day BfA launches and if they have something like AK that modifies Azerite then I can come back in the .2 patch and be current in a day or two.

That really came home to me when I decided in 7.3 that I wanted to get the bear artifact on my druid. Where I was doing tons of work for the first 35 talents on my balance weapon because the AP I got was so little in 7.3 I did... one or two WQs and got all 35. Days and weeks of questing etc? Or 1-2 quests? Gee, I think I'll save a couple dozen hours of my life and do the latter.

[grexly75]

It's OK to get tired of the game and wanting something else.
I got tired being treated like a hamster and unsubbed. I'm not sure if I'm going to play BfA, I haven't bought it and looking at the features, it does look very much like "man vs. machine" and I just don't like random procedurally generated hamsterwheels.

I've played other games. It's a shame there's not another high quality MMO (without excessive furriness) at the moment, I miss playing a good MMORPG. But hey, loads of good single player, kickass RPGs out there!

I think this is the main problem with MMO's in general, before Blizzard started going nuts with phasing the world was very static nothing changed and it felt weird to have an unchanging world, where what you just killed for a quest moments ago was back again as if nothing had happened.. And until recently all MMO's suffered from that condition of nothing changing in the game world..

Heck I am in the same boat I mainly now log in for raiding and my dailies and once done I go play a single player game, do some 3D rendering, watch TV or go outside.. It is a case we all eventually get to that stage where the game is just there for a few hours of fun then move onto other things..

[Teelie]

Argus was the last straw for me with Legion. Everything else was okay, even though the grinds were more transparent than ever but once Argus came out and was super grindy and even worsely gated off even to alts I realized I needed a break from it.

It's WoW, I expect a certain level of grind but this was too much for too long. BfA looks like it will be both an improvement in some respects and at the same time even worse with the grinding having me consider whether Legion is the end of the road for me. I've been here since BC and took a year off in Pandaria with that horrible daily rep grind but I'm not sure I will be back for BfA.

[ornichi]

I bought BFA with in game gold but I really don't know if I'm going to bother to sub again and play it with this new azurite grind.

From physchological perspective it's fucking hilarious, how people try to make such phrases sound casually, reminds me of 15 yo teens who say "brb smoke" in raid chat.
Like dude, nobody gives a shit about how you manage your income, neither does anyone consider you to be cool for buying it with [subtle_emphasis]IN GAME GOLD[/subtle_emphasis], so it's kinda worthless to point that out. Just roll with it.

[WowIsDead64]

As for me, WOD was much more better. Bad thing - Blizzard had abandoned it and at the end it had just one patch worth content. Why it was better? Because I could actively play just one character at a time. I could pick minimal casual-friendly content and just do it - all mandatory things were accessible via Garrisons. Yeah Garrison progression was much slower, but at the end I could achieve all the same goals, as active player. No mandatory or forced stuff, except Pathfinder. But Pathfinder was about "Do it once - enjoy game forever" thing, that was bearable for me.

And in Legion even minimal (lesser amount of content means not playing game at all) and most casual-friendly content is still way too grindy for me. I just wanted to complete Order Hall campaigns and get Order Hall sets. But it still involves Suramar rep grind, that requires me to perform non-stop Order Hall res grind to run rep missions. And it's just an illusion of offline progress, as I still need to grind Order Hall resses online. I.e. it's WQ grind=>OH resses=>Missions=>Reps. But why can't we simply turn it into WQ grind=>Reps?

Yeah. Too much grind - no fun. Won't buy BFA, if it will be the same. Or at least buy it for gold, when 8.2-8.3 will be released, as with Blizzards' crappy design real game starts in last patch only. I already have 2.5 tokens - 1.5 left.

[Deleted]

Also, I shouldn't need to point out the flaw with front loading all the wonder and basing it in a hype train. Withholding information from the players until they continue to pay for additional months of sub because unlocking it requires exhausting rep grinds and time gates isn't the same as actually building a sense of wonder. It's just content stretching, which is exactly the source and cause of the fatigue the OP described.

With-holding which information exactly? How to solve riddles?
Do you also expect your sudoku to include the solution?

There wasn't much build of the hype-building about these secrets in the 1st place. All they did was drop a line about secret artifact appearances, mounts and pets... past that the hype basically built itself.

The OP is one of those who didn't take things in moderation and expected to be on top for that. He complains about the bar not moving after putting in effort, while it was clear from the get-go that this moment will come; and this exact moment is usually also when he was supposed to stop the grind.

[Soon-TM]

It's OK to get tired of the game and wanting something else.
I got tired being treated like a hamster and unsubbed. I'm not sure if I'm going to play BfA, I haven't bought it and looking at the features, it does look very much like "man vs. machine" and I just don't like random procedurally generated hamsterwheels.

I've played other games. It's a shame there's not another high quality MMO (without excessive furriness) at the moment, I miss playing a good MMORPG. But hey, loads of good single player, kickass RPGs out there!

A bit off topic, but what do you mean with "man vs machine"?

And yes, I've grabbed a bunch of great RPG stuff in Steam, looking forward to play it (when my @#$&ty net is done downloading haha).

[Alidfe]

There's nothing wrong with quitting or taking a break if you want.

But if it helps any, the grinds are often kind of illusory. Blizzard loves to throw catch up mechanics at people each patch cycle now, which means the grindy upkeep you feel compelled to do isn't actually all that important outside the very short term. Remembering that takes a lot of pressure off the various maintenance tasks in game.

[Roxxy]

From physchological perspective it's fucking hilarious, how people try to make such phrases sound casually, reminds me of 15 yo teens who say "brb smoke" in raid chat.
Like dude, nobody gives a shit about how you manage your income, neither does anyone consider you to be cool for buying it with [subtle_emphasis]IN GAME GOLD[/subtle_emphasis], so it's kinda worthless to point that out. Just roll with it.

Well I just put it in because usually I buy expansions with real money because in the past I've been excited about them but this time I wasn't excited and told myself If I wanted to play BFA I'd have to buy it with gold in game and went gold farming. That way if I quit I won't feel so much I'd thrown money down the pan.

In other words you wouldn't have been behind "dedicated Dan" all that much just playing like you normally play.

All that grind was all in your head. You were doing MORE than enough to be current in artifact level.

I can understand how you are feeling frustrated and worried about the necklace, but since you know that your playstyle is such that you'll grind I'd suggest self-monitoring to make sure that the game doesn't turn into a grind for you.

The problem isn't the system, it's how you reacted to it.

I still remember going into nighthold and being cut from the raid team one night as a certain dps threshold was set that I couldn't meet at the time. I had lower gear than the other players but in the past my skill made up for it. The kicker was that I had thought artefact power capped at level 25 when in fact there were a whole 20 something levels to go to cap. You can tell me anything but for me I just remember that making the difference between me being able to stay and being told to leave. Edit: Actually now I think about it, I only had one bis leggo for my spec too. Glad they are going down the drain.

I might give BFA a go, I'm trying to get the motivation together. I think the real hardness was that I was about the only 'swing' dps/ healer in the raid group so whereas everyone else was just grinding up one artefact, I was grinding up two just in case the raid leader said 'go resto tonight thanks''. In BFA this isn't a problem as ever spec levels up the same time I've heard.

[Shelly]

I still remember going into nighthold and being cut from the raid team one night as a certain dps threshold was set that I couldn't meet at the time. I had lower gear than the other players but in the past my skill made up for it. The kicker was that I had thought artefact power capped at level 25 when in fact there were a whole 20 something levels to go to cap. You can tell me anything but for me I just remember that making the difference between me being able to stay and being told to leave. Edit: Actually now I think about it, I only had one bis leggo for my spec too. Glad they are going down the drain.

I might give BFA a go, I'm trying to get the motivation together. I think the real hardness was that I was about the only 'swing' dps/ healer in the raid group so whereas everyone else was just grinding up one artefact, I was grinding up two just in case the raid leader said 'go resto tonight thanks''. In BFA this isn't a problem as ever spec levels up the same time I've heard.

While you might certainly be able to make a case for the lego - for many classes the BiS can equal 5+ % of damage if not more depending on the fight.

The difference between NH paragon level'd weapon and simply capped weapon wasn't that big a deal for the most part. It was something like what 500 primary stat and an extra 10% weapon damage if I recall correctly. And that was totally capped which to do took almost until Tomb came out for most players.

In other words the other folks in the nighthold with you played better. Straight up. Maybe some of them did get lucky with their legos, maybe most of them were more progressed than you, but at the end of the day they had more DPS than you were able to bring to the table and even if we removed the legos and artifact weapon you'd still have been behind and below their DPS cutoff point.

It sucks to be cut, it also sucks to be the guy cutting someone that plays well and does their job, but at the end of the day if you know that you need a specific DPS threshold by every player to make the run go smoothly and you have an underperformer, you cut them.

If you were close to the threshold, like 2 to 3k off I'd say the raid leader should have let you stay, but it was their call and your DPS not matching the threshold is on you. Not the legendary you were missing or your weapon not being further advanced past full point investment.

[Lochton]

Everyone seemingly tires of the hamster wheel and just throws in the towel. There’s no shame in it.

I got tired of tier sets for multiple alts and PVP sets for multiple alts and dailies, and mount farming, and transmog farming etc.

I don’t need to say it, you get it. Now get going son!

Oh, I agree with you but mentally, I'm not that person. I'm still running active and hot on trail on everything.

[HitRefresh]

I kind of wish that artifact power tokens were a lot less common, but gave much higher amounts. They usually ended up filling my inventory, and I was pretty much doing it whenever I had to clear out some inventory space because you get them so fucking often.

It would be cool if I got one like once on a normal day, and I click it and see my bar go up a lot, so it gives the same kind of satisfaction as like a piece of new gear.

[globenstine]

i find grinding for deterministic rewards fine, in legion its the fact you grind and grind and have no real control over your character progression as far as gear goes (especially so in the beginning of the expansion). i mained mm hunter and i lost 2 raid spots to other hunters simply because i was unlucky enough to not have my boots until nighthold came out. grinding away with no guarantee that your time investment will be properly respected or rewarded just makes the experience toxic and frustrating. i quit mid tos and within a day i felt as if a huge weight was off my chest. sometimes you really dont notice how unhappy a system like that is making you until you step away.

[Deleted]

Alting is a pain in the ass in Legion, you need to get bis legendaries + bis relic + artefact then redo questline etc... Playing alts was waaay better before Legion tbh.

[Deleted]

In Legion its the same thing.

Not necessarily. I haven't done emissary quests, daily heroic or otherwise farmed AP for over a year, I only log in to run m+ (20+ keys) for the sheer fun of it, not for gear or AP. I haven't felt like I 'needed' to do anything in some time, and my antorus trinket isn't even 1000 yet, and probably never will be because I'm tired of that raid and probably won't set foot there until next expansion when I can solo it for transmog.

- - - Updated - - -

I kind of wish that artifact power tokens were a lot less common, but gave much higher amounts. They usually ended up filling my inventory, and I was pretty much doing it whenever I had to clear out some inventory space because you get them so fucking often.

It would be cool if I got one like once on a normal day, and I click it and see my bar go up a lot, so it gives the same kind of satisfaction as like a piece of new gear.

It's meant to be a constant reward for doing content, so at the end of a dungeon/raid/quest even if you did not receive the gear piece you desired, you still gained something and it wasn't a complete waste of time. It'll be a bit better in BfA when the AP is added to your necklace automatically, no more items to clutter your bags! =)

[Adamas102]

Odd - I didn't do any grinding at all in Legion. Zero.

I suppose if you choose to grind, then that's not a problem with the game.

It's a game built upon performing repetitive tasks for incremental progression with no true end. It's a grind. Maybe you enjoy it, but it's still a grind.

[shise]

What grind are you talking about?

Sometimes I cant play more than a couple of days per week, and I was far behind all reps when Argus came up... only 2 weeks after it I started doing my flying from complete scratch, it toke me a month and a half only.

You can get a toon to ilvl 925 ish or more in one day.

Artifact power is the same for everyone.

I think this is PERFECT, Legion is easily the best expansion since BC and Wrath.. it keeps everyone entertained, regardless of your time to play.

If you don´t like it, then you have to either consider your play style or stop for a while.