If the faction war in BfA got to Silvermoon ...

[baskev]

For the Sunwell, pretty much what Friendlyimmolation said.

For the Vindicaar, I’d imagine it does get used in Lordaeron. Same as the Void Elves are going to get used. I can’t see why they wouldn’t use it.

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The amount of mana required would literally tear the land that it was taken from apart. Just look at Netherstorm.

Again proof it . Proof the the alliance will abuse it with past things they abused in WoW. I have proven they will not. Its not in there character. Burden of proof is now on you guys .

If it does get used the horde will loose the first battle's until they counter it somehow. But they will not use it for several reasons. Its the base of operations for 1 "race" and because blizzard is bad at writing by giving a powerful ship like that to 1 side :S:S.

If it was possible to do once. why not twice.

But hey lets see your weak response tomorrow when i am online again. Can not wait for you and immolations side stepping, not proving and just not listing to facts

[Friendlyimmolation]

Again proof it . Proof the the alliance will abuse it with past things they abused in WoW. I have proven they will not. Its not in there character. Burden of proof is now on you guys .

If it does get used the horde will loose the first battle's until they counter it somehow. But they will not use it for several reasons. Its the base of operations for 1 "race" and because blizzard is bad at writing by giving a powerful ship like that to 1 side :S:S.

If it was possible to do once. why not twice.

But hey lets see your weak response tomorrow when i am online again. Can not wait for you and immolations side stepping, not proving and just not listing to facts

You are trying to not only make predictions on how the blood elves will feel, while also acting as if you know what the Alliance would do despite it being outright impossible for you to do so.

We know that the blood elves had decided to destroy the Sunwell instead of letting it be captured by enemies before.


It would not be possible again without totally destroying an area, something your nice guy Alliance you're trying to argue for wouldn't do anyways.

Your inability to think from the blood elves perspective, on why they would not trust the Alliance is simply mind boggling. The only weak response here is your broken sentences with random smiley faces, and your constant confusion of your misinformed, uneducated opinions for facts.

You cannot prove the Alliance would not try to use the Sunwell, and you cannot prove the blood elves would trust them even if they said they wouldn't. You have such a lack of proof in fact, that it's downright concerning you think you have such a position of strength.

I'd say the burden of proof is on you, but that's beyond the point you are "arguing"

[Chemical Ellis]

Void Elf culture is identical to Belf culture, and it's a little odd having the exact same group on both sides of the faction divide (though I guess it works for Pandaren). They even went out of their way to recreate the same scenario as faced Belves at the beginning of TBC.

Because of this, a part of me has wondered whether they're going to do something to drastically change the Blood Elves.

Here's my dumb, thoroughly implausible theory:

Alliance marches up through Quel'Thalas. They install Silver Covenant as leaders of Silvermoon, and they promptly turn and kick the Alliance out. The uber-dogmatic Quel'dorei are incensed at the inclusion of heretical Ren'dorei into the Alliance (who've twice betrayed them), and refuse to be party to the Alliance any longer. Lor'themar, Rommath, et al are publicly executed. Vereesa manages to cut a deal with Liadrin, whose values she respects - Silvermoon is now formally independent, but it maintains a small, Horde-aligned Blood Knight quarter (mechanically, still Horde city). Silver Covenant establishes a mercenary relationship with the Nightborne, work for Shal'dorei as hired hands. Blood Elves as a whole adopt Quel'dorei culture, Void Elves maintain Blood Elf culture.

[Aeula]

Again proof it . Proof the the alliance will abuse it with past things they abused in WoW. I have proven they will not. Its not in there character. Burden of proof is now on you guys .

If it does get used the horde will loose the first battle's until they counter it somehow. But they will not use it for several reasons. Its the base of operations for 1 "race" and because blizzard is bad at writing by giving a powerful ship like that to 1 side :S:S.

If it was possible to do once. why not twice.

But hey lets see your weak response tomorrow when i am online again. Can not wait for you and immolations side stepping, not proving and just not listing to facts

Using the Vindicaar wouldn’t be ‘abuse’.

At all.

Neither would using the Sunwell (Corrupting it would be borderline abuse and dangerous to more than just the Blood Elves, but let’s presume they don’t since you hold the Alliance all as saints).

Military assets are military assets, if they don’t use them then they’re idiots.

But okay, let’s do it your way.

Jaina was going to abuse the focusing iris until Kalec and Thrall talked her out of it.

Jaina abused her power as leader of the council of six to start a massacre and mass imprisonment under the guise of the accused ‘breaking neutrality’, despite doing the same thing herself moments earlier.

Genn abused the Skyfire to peruse a personal vendetta, against orders from his king.

Rogers abused her position to have surrendering enemy troops massacred. Again, due to a personal grudge.

Garithos abused his command to have the Blood Elves imprisoned and sentenced to death, and before you say ‘#Notmyalliance’, chronicles confirms that the Alliance of Lordaeron and the Modern Alliance are the same faction.

The Dwarven Ambassador abused his position to sabotage Quel’thalas with his Night Elven allies at a time before the Blood Elves officially joined the Horde and thus were open to offers of an Alliance.

Anyway, I’m not trying to start a shitting war over which faction is the most morally dubious. I’m simply providing facts to show that the Alliance is capable of ‘abusing’ things.

The facts are:

The Blood Elves won’t join the Alliance due to gameplay and lore.

The Blood Elves don’t trust the Alliance and won’t even entertain the above.

The Blood Elves have destroyed the Sunwell in the past to prevent it falling into enemy hands.

The Horde has used scorched earth tactics before: See the Undercity.

The mere presence of Void can corrupt the Sunwell. The Blood Elves know this.

The Alliance are capable of potentially ‘abusing’ the Sunwell or at least accidentally corrupting it. (The latter of which has been HEAVILY foreshadowed).

Like his Father, Anduin lacks the control to prevent such abuse from happening, as shown with Jaina (For his Father) and Genn (For him). He can’t be everywhere at once to stop these things from happening, if he even wants to.

So there. Those are the facts.

[Darktbs]

Rogers abused her position to have surrendering enemy troops massacred. Again, due to a personal grudge.

Thats not really abuse, they were at war and she was the commander, she is the one that chooses wether take prisioners or not.

[MikeBogina]

So if its harder to put on fire, then there is more intent now is there?

yes, if blizzard understands how trees work and that this tree should be nearly fire proof. The person who sets this on fire would need wildfire from Game of Thrones or a really powerful fire mage.

I personally think that we're going to see the reemergence of the Druids of the Flame working for the N'zoth who secretly set it on fire. I also suspect the burning of the tree isn't sylvanas' doing as the pictures shown of her watching it the tree before and after... the after one shows her stance kinda surprised.

[Aeula]

Thats not really abuse, they were at war and she was the commander, she is the one that chooses wether take prisioners or not.

Like I said. Not trying to start a shitshow. I’m just saying that the Alliance isn’t always ‘nice’.

[bloodmoth13]

I have no doubt that Silvermoon will fall to the High/Void elves by the end of the xpac as well as Exodar surreding to the Horde.

Dalaran neutral, but Silvermoon and Suramar Horde (kek) will not last for ever.

If I had to make some predictions, I would say the war between the Horde and the Alliance will end when each faction will be separated by the ocean.

exodar is mobile, they will just fly off, leaving azuremist as a holiday resort for the forsaken.

Maybe they will come up with some clever trick to make silvermoon float like dalaran? then dalaran can just piss off and return back to the alliance

[derpkitteh]

depends if the elves get ban'dinoriel back up.

that happens, nobody gets through. though i could maybe see the void elves worming through with void rifts. but then again, you've got the nightborne to aid with anti-teleportation methods that probably surpass everyone else's capabilities on azeroth.

[NatePsy]

Silvermoon will never be taken by the Alliance. Nightborne are allies to the Horde and by extension, Blood Elves. These same Nightborne have research and knowledge to erect barriers over a city because they've done it before with Suramar, they could incorporate that knowledge into using it with the Sunwell to erect a barrier over Silvermoon. Know what that means? Spending a very long time trying to penetrate said barrier. It's a game of time at that point. Hell, they've got Oculetth who is vastly well versed in teleportation, traps anyone?

[TheramoreIsTheBomb]

I'd love to see SMC taken by the Alliance and the Exodar taken by the Horde. Exodar is infilitrated by the Nightborne to eliminate the final threat of the Alliance in Kalimdor and Alleria leads the siege on Silvermoon City. Tyrande can die in the Exodar and Lor'themar can die in SMC. Shandris takes Tyrande's place. Malfurion goes mad and goes through a character change and is no longer neutral and Liadrin becomes the leader of the Blood Elves. Alliance attacks first and reclaims Silvermoon. Horde counters with taking the Exodar.

[Deleted]

I see no reason why the shield could not be activated. It wouldn't protect the Ghostlands, sure, but Quel'Danas, Silvermoon and Eversong Forest shouldn't be a problem. blood elves can now even combine their knowledge with the knowledge of the Nightborne, which should make shield technology even stronger. The thing they have to do then is to secure the important locations who hold the shield up, turn them into fortresses and watch out for high elf and void elf infiltrators or potential alliance lovers among the blood elves. But i doubt there are a lot. Even a pathetic fuck like Aethas Sunreaver only likes Dalaran, not the Alliance as a whole. Now if Dalaran rejoins the Alliance with Khadgar absent, that could become kind of a problem. But i doubt even the Sunreaver would ever betray their own kind, just to get slaughtered by Jaina and her thuggs again first time she gets the chance. And don't tell me Anduin could hold Jaina in check.

[baskev]

You are trying to not only make predictions on how the blood elves will feel, while also acting as if you know what the Alliance would do despite it being outright impossible for you to do so.

We know that the blood elves had decided to destroy the Sunwell instead of letting it be captured by enemies before.


It would not be possible again without totally destroying an area, something your nice guy Alliance you're trying to argue for wouldn't do anyways.

Your inability to think from the blood elves perspective, on why they would not trust the Alliance is simply mind boggling. The only weak response here is your broken sentences with random smiley faces, and your constant confusion of your misinformed, uneducated opinions for facts.

You cannot prove the Alliance would not try to use the Sunwell, and you cannot prove the blood elves would trust them even if they said they wouldn't. You have such a lack of proof in fact, that it's downright concerning you think you have such a position of strength.

I'd say the burden of proof is on you, but that's beyond the point you are "arguing"

first part: Yeah that is what this thread is about. Making predictions....so not set in stone things. Like opinions .

Those enemy's like i have said several times before. Where there to abuse/destroy the sunwell. I have clearly proven alliance is to goody two shoes for it.

So what is it now, is the vindecar strong enough to destroy a area or not. You guys seem to change your opinion each time.

I am thinking from their perspective. If you know anything about the lore they are the most faction changed race there is. And again its about sylvana's going crazy. And there it comes i can not win with argument so i am going after someones bad grammar. He atleast i tried to use quote marks a simple function of the forum you can not even handle .
And yes i use smiley a lot. Simply because its funny how many times you contradict yourself Or lie. For instance. My uneducated opinions for facts, come from ingame facts, wiki's. And the cannon lore books. I have proven with links to info that my facts are correct. Where is your info...oohhh wait you have not linked anything.

I can, and i did proof several times already that they will not. Again proof that they will abuse it. Proof it. you can not...

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Using the Vindicaar wouldn’t be ‘abuse’.

At all.

Neither would using the Sunwell (Corrupting it would be borderline abuse and dangerous to more than just the Blood Elves, but let’s presume they don’t since you hold the Alliance all as saints).

Military assets are military assets, if they don’t use them then they’re idiots.

But okay, let’s do it your way.

Jaina was going to abuse the focusing iris until Kalec and Thrall talked her out of it.

Jaina abused her power as leader of the council of six to start a massacre and mass imprisonment under the guise of the accused ‘breaking neutrality’, despite doing the same thing herself moments earlier.

Genn abused the Skyfire to peruse a personal vendetta, against orders from his king.

Rogers abused her position to have surrendering enemy troops massacred. Again, due to a personal grudge.

Garithos abused his command to have the Blood Elves imprisoned and sentenced to death, and before you say ‘#Notmyalliance’, chronicles confirms that the Alliance of Lordaeron and the Modern Alliance are the same faction.

The Dwarven Ambassador abused his position to sabotage Quel’thalas with his Night Elven allies at a time before the Blood Elves officially joined the Horde and thus were open to offers of an Alliance.

Anyway, I’m not trying to start a shitting war over which faction is the most morally dubious. I’m simply providing facts to show that the Alliance is capable of ‘abusing’ things.

The facts are:

The Blood Elves won’t join the Alliance due to gameplay and lore.

The Blood Elves don’t trust the Alliance and won’t even entertain the above.

The Blood Elves have destroyed the Sunwell in the past to prevent it falling into enemy hands.

The Horde has used scorched earth tactics before: See the Undercity.

The mere presence of Void can corrupt the Sunwell. The Blood Elves know this.

The Alliance are capable of potentially ‘abusing’ the Sunwell or at least accidentally corrupting it. (The latter of which has been HEAVILY foreshadowed).

Like his Father, Anduin lacks the control to prevent such abuse from happening, as shown with Jaina (For his Father) and Genn (For him). He can’t be everywhere at once to stop these things from happening, if he even wants to.

So there. Those are the facts.

using it would be a abuse, it was a neutral ship during argus. And lightforged are just super charged paladins. ( a neutral faction ).

Its the alliance, they have chosen to do the right thing over the tactical right thing before. ( like i have proven )

Okay lets do jaina:
Iris: Yes
"massacre"; she killed some troops, put most of them in prison. Nothing has happened before that to her or her city. And they did broke neutrality. 1 guy stealing a WMD from a save place where it can not be used for the other faction using a neutrals party teleport says enough.
Genn: Yes, and it was so bad he did. He totally did not stop sylvana's enslaving a whole specie's...ooohh wait.
Garithos: Yes that was a bad human. And if you look at that era you should also count the fact that jaina let orcs kill her farther. And that was the old alliance before the WoW one. And no they are not the same Alliance. Different leader ship. Different races etc.
Dwarf and night elf one: Yes they did that.

But non of these things are ABUSING WMD or powerful weapons. So you are comparing apple's to oranges here. So again, proof abuse of powerful magic things. Because jaina not using the iris not counts. Because if we count that we need to start using sylvana's stuff to.


facts:
1.) yup i have said that before.....do not know why you think that is new?
2.) they would, they have and they will again if the horde does crazy things. ( have proven it) but it will be harder since jaina.
3.) again enemy's that want to abuse it. I have proven that the alliance will not. So use to destroy it.
4.) Yes they have. Faction leaders might not be happy with it. See saurfang, see after bombing of theramore etc etc etc
5.) Yes and i have responded to you about this. And void elves are not careless about it. They would not destroy it. Or did alleria fight to not be removed from silvermoon?
6.) 1 void elf accidentally corrupting it and then leaving is not speaking for the who alliance. And she left after that knowing it would do harm. And it was the allaince who "sacrificed" the remains of a naruu the last time to restart it. so.....
7.) i agree with you on Anduin he is weak. But he has People like Velen to counter that. And he is not THAT weak.

So that is my response to your "facts" . You do know facts are backed up with events ingame from wiki's etc. You have yet to do it.

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yes, if blizzard understands how trees work and that this tree should be nearly fire proof. The person who sets this on fire would need wildfire from Game of Thrones or a really powerful fire mage.

I personally think that we're going to see the reemergence of the Druids of the Flame working for the N'zoth who secretly set it on fire. I also suspect the burning of the tree isn't sylvanas' doing as the pictures shown of her watching it the tree before and after... the after one shows her stance kinda surprised.

Yeah, the horde does not have powerful mages or very smart little green gnome like engineers who could make weapons.


But yeah, i think it might have a other person pushing over some extra black powder to cause more harm. Genn? , N'zoth?, Ashara. Indeed she does look surprised. But on the other hand you have the data mined stuff.

[Deleted]

If the Forsaken are already beaten at that point, Silvermoon will fall soon enough.

It couldn't hold it's own against Arthas and his forces when they were still at full strength, they certainly wont be able to hold off the Alliance forces with what they have left now.

[Combatbutler]

If the Forsaken are already beaten at that point, Silvermoon will fall soon enough.

It couldn't hold it's own against Arthas and his forces when they were still at full strength, they certainly wont be able to hold off the Alliance forces with what they have left now.

The reason Arthas was able to overcome Silvermoon was due to Dar'khan

[Xerra]

Silvermoon will never fall because Nomi isn't allowed within city limits.

[Friendlyimmolation]

If the Forsaken are already beaten at that point, Silvermoon will fall soon enough.

It couldn't hold it's own against Arthas and his forces when they were still at full strength, they certainly wont be able to hold off the Alliance forces with what they have left now.

Arthas only won because of Darkhan, and they were by themselves. With the Nightborne with the Horde and the Sunwell, the Alliance is screwed trying to occupy that land. Quel’thalas is much easier to defend than the Undercity.


Also Scourge > Alliance

[Dudas]

If the Forsaken are already beaten at that point, Silvermoon will fall soon enough.

It couldn't hold it's own against Arthas and his forces when they were still at full strength, they certainly wont be able to hold off the Alliance forces with what they have left now.

Arthas had destroyed entire zones filled with humans, slaughtered them, turned them into mindless and stronger zombies and had a sword that would rip souls and control them and make them do as he commanded. And with all that he struggled against Sylvanas and some rangers with wood arrows for days if not weeks. Plus the betrayal from within.

The Alliance is nowhere near the level of power Arthas had during that invasion.

[MikeBogina]

Yeah, the horde does not have powerful mages or very smart little green gnome like engineers who could make weapons.

I'll have you know that the Horde does in fact have little green gnomes, they're called Lepper Gnomes. :P

But yeah, i think it might have a other person pushing over some extra black powder to cause more harm. Genn? , N'zoth?, Ashara. Indeed she does look surprised. But on the other hand you have the data mined stuff.

I don't think Genn would do that to his allies to vilify her further, the Alliance at this point would already want her dead... but i could see if taking the tree is a huge victory for the Horde, that he could rather see it burned and blame her in the end. But most likely, Druids of the Flame being ordered by N'zoth or any cultist setting off something could do it. The whole war between the Night Elves and the Horde in Ashenvale was started because of the ambush by the cultists that were blamed on Garrosh. It's a tactic that worked before, why wouldn't they do it again?

And with datamined, where is the datamined saying the Horde burns the tree?

[baskev]

I'll have you know that the Horde does in fact have little green gnomes, they're called Lepper Gnomes. :P


I don't think Genn would do that to his allies to vilify her further, the Alliance at this point would already want her dead... but i could see if taking the tree is a huge victory for the Horde, that he could rather see it burned and blame her in the end. But most likely, Druids of the Flame being ordered by N'zoth or any cultist setting off something could do it. The whole war between the Night Elves and the Horde in Ashenvale was started because of the ambush by the cultists that were blamed on Garrosh. It's a tactic that worked before, why wouldn't they do it again?

And with datamined, where is the datamined saying the Horde burns the tree?

That was me being sarcastic

Yeah thru about ashenvale. But the horde doing it again. We hate sylvana's enough already. If she really burns the tree she has gone full garrosh and the alliance might get those dreanor orcs thanks to saurfang.