RPG Aspects of WoW

[ro9ue]

I do miss them, but I know if they added them back in I'd be annoyed.

I think some things like ammo were actually becoming interesting in... I think Wrath. They had different arrows you could craft that did different types of magical damage. If they enhance the game then they are worth the effort.

[Lodreh]

Imagine playing a singleplayer rpg-game today that was made similarly to what WoW is now... you never need to "learn" abilities, they just pop into your actionbars... you never need reagents for archery or anything of that sort.
All you do in the "rpg"-game is run from 1 dungeon to another... hold on, run? what nonsense... just teleport instantly to its entrance. Imagine skyrim or witcher or whatever this way...

Can't tell if serious or not... It's been a while since I played Skyrim but I recall finding enough arrows to never have to buy any... once I got the Bound Bow I never used arrows again. Once I learned Bound Bow I did not have run back and learn new ranks of it. And I seem to recall fast travel being a thing... kind of like the Flight Master's Whistle. Yeah I'd say Wow is very similar to how Skyrim handled these things.

[Clone]

Can't tell if serious or not... It's been a while since I played Skyrim but I recall finding enough arrows to never have to buy any... once I got the Bound Bow I never used arrows again. Once I learned Bound Bow I did not have run back and learn new ranks of it. And I seem to recall fast travel being a thing... kind of like the Flight Master's Whistle. Yeah I'd say Wow is very similar to how Skyrim handled these things.

Not sure if Neverwinter Nights had ammo, but I am pretty sure it didn't have class trainers.

CoD has an ammo system, so I guess that must be a RPG too!

[Deleted]

And where is problem? You are punished for failing to buy enough arrows. Looks good to me. Maybe dont be *** next time and buy enough arrows? It isnt chore it is game punishhing your mistake.

The point is you are not really punished in any way. You just waste time. There is no "real" punishment in a PC game. You just stone back and summoned again. When there is no real consequences the action becomes shallow, and then removed.

In Pen and Paper you can be punished pretty hard if you, as a "hunter", forgot your arrow. Ddepending on GM and situation, you can die, or let one of your party member die, or lose equipment and so on.

All this makes the LOSS OF ARROW meaningful. But a PC game can't perma kill someone or delete equipment for something like this. Or better they can, but good luck finding players.

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Point 2 would require a duckload of work to make a world that versatile that would be really hard.

Yeah i know, that's why it's pointless to ask: "We want WoW to be like Pen and Paper D&D".

[Deleted]

The point is you are not really punished in any way. You just waste time. There is no "real" punishment in a PC game. You just stone back and summoned again. When there is no real consequences the action becomes shallow, and then removed.

In Pen and Paper you can be punished pretty hard if you, as a "hunter", forgot your arrow. Ddepending on GM and situation, you can die, or let one of your party member die, or lose equipment and so on.

All this makes the LOSS OF ARROW meaningful. But a PC game can't perma kill someone or delete equipment for something like this. Or better they can, but good luck finding players.

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Yeah i know, that's why it's pointless to ask: "We want WoW to be like Pen and Paper D&D".

My feeling are telling me that you would like a mix between WoW and Divinity 2 amarite?

[Deleted]

My feeling are telling me that you would like a mix between WoW and Divinity 2 amarite?

It's very simple. I like WoW the way it is. I know the game is changed, but, despise the professional forum whiners around, the core is the same since Vanilla. It's just older.

If i want to play something with more RPG, i know there are a lot of Videogames (even if not MMO), that can give a really good gaming experience (Divinity 2 is a great game).

And, even if i am not so young, i still find time once a month to play some classic Pen and Paper with my friends (D&D 3.5 and Star Wars)!

[Deleted]

And, even if i am not so young, i still find time once a month to play some classic Pen and Paper with my friends (D&D 3.5 and Star Wars)!

You should really give 5e a try, it's great fun! And don't worry about your age, people of all ages play D&D. For anyone into D&D who has somehow missed the awesomeness that is Matthew Mercer, you've got to watch :https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=i-p9lWIhcLQ, I only found out about it like a month ago and haven't been able to watch anything else since. ^^

[Sorrior]

Can't tell if serious or not... It's been a while since I played Skyrim but I recall finding enough arrows to never have to buy any... once I got the Bound Bow I never used arrows again. Once I learned Bound Bow I did not have run back and learn new ranks of it. And I seem to recall fast travel being a thing... kind of like the Flight Master's Whistle. Yeah I'd say Wow is very similar to how Skyrim handled these things.

Two things

First you still had to learn bound bow and even then go a bit into magic to use it fully if not mistaken

Second you do realize skyrim removed an INSANE amount if rpg elememts yes? It plays more action adventure then older es games

[Aeula]

WoW was never a true RPG and it never will be. Those aspects merely got in the way and created meaningless clutter.

[Soon-TM]

Two things

First you still had to learn bound bow and even then go a bit into magic to use it fully if not mistaken

Second you do realize skyrim removed an INSANE amount if rpg elememts yes? It plays more action adventure then older es games

Indeed. Morrowind and Oblivion are way truer to RPG traditions than Skyrim.

[cparle87]

In Crash Bandicoot, I assume the role of Crash (or even Coco), and explore the world in a fictional setting, interact with other characters, so on and so fort. Sounds like an RPG to me.

You are correct, sir.

[Hey There Guys its Metro]

I miss them at times for sure, but realistically I understand most of them just slow the game down.
Its not what it used to be and I am happy we are getting a chance to re experience that with Classic but in the modern day things like running out of Ammo in a Mythic+ dungeon is not something that would really work.

[chiddie]

Don’t miss ANY Vanilla “rpg” elements apart from class and profession quests (I remember the lock mount or the hunter epic bow).

Basically because 90% of the so called “rpg” elements were there more to make you waste time and stay in-game more than being rpgish.

Things like “ kill 900000 mobs to learn using your weapon” or “go to AV entrance to play AV” are simply no-sense in a mmorpg.

[MoanaLisa]

I do wish that WoW were more like an RPG. I'm not sure that adding in the things mentioned in the post at the top of the thread would do much to resolve that.

[Kuntantee]

You are correct, sir.

So every game is an RPG then?

[orukam]

Great topic!

I really miss the RPG/Immersion/fluff side of things myself

RPG in WoW is long dead, rotting in the grave. They removed little RPG elements, one by one, to make the game more convenient (QoL changes people call it), and it end up being an action-adventure MMO. A metamorphosis. WoW sure is not an RPG game.

Sadly you are absolute right.

One day, people will understand that what is fun in a pen and paper RPG may be fucking boring in a online game. And sometimes those thing are just plain boring even in a pen and paper.

Let's try a scenario and see the differences:

SCENARIO: I forgot to buy arrow and i am in the middle of a dungeon

1) World of Warcraft or any another Pc game: "What a hassle, brb hearting/teleporting to buy some. Or please Caster X, make me a portal and call me back or waste time waiting for me. Oh wait, i can just stand still and do nothing and you carry me!".

2) Pen and paper: "Crap i forgot to buy arrow in last village, we are in the middle of a dungeon/forest, our mage cant waste teleport.... i will be useless? No, i can still place trap, craft my arrow from a branch, sneak ahead, use my pet effectively, ask mage to conjure wood or trasmute this chair....."

Even a blind idiot can see the difference: 1) Just a chore; 2) Open up a lot of possibilities.

For me there is one of the problems. Lack of content focused on non-combat. Today almost all the skill of the game is focused on combat.
You see, I do not think an MMORPG should allow the Rogue to bluff the Argus and persuade her not to fight.
But there could be Bluff in the game for some other content for Rogue.

I'll think of a list of things that I think could add that immersion and be ready to discuss it.

[orukam]

Part of our immersion in vanilla is also tied to everything being new. Of course, little things were taken to make the game more fluid.
So here is a list of cool things that IN MY OPINION could bring this immersion back

- More utilities for the professions:
**A leatherwoker could very well use a actual piece of leather to repair your leather items.
**Same of course for Tailor and Blacksmith.

- Class Quests.
**For example the Druid have to get in touch with the spirits of the animals to be able to learn the bear form and etc.
**They would not have to be all Skills. I do not even think going to the train is nice. But every class has skill characteristics that are unique.

- More interaction with the scenery and biomes
**Today the scenario interactions are basically the Gathering Professions.
**Examples: harvesting fruit from trees as Cooking reagents, building / destroying some buildings and etc.
**
- More Skill and personalized non-combat content for classes
**Examples: Bluff for Rogue. Diplomacy for paladins.etc
**
- More active personality in races
**Today people choose the race basically for two factors: Better numbers or aesthetics.
**In my opinion, races could be more than just that. Heritage Armors are a start. But non-combat skill for the races could connect the player to his race.
**Maybe give a skill similar to "Far Sight" to the Elves, to simulate his sharp vision or things like this
**
- Class Professions
Imagine if each Class had something like a "profession."
A Hunter, for example, could have the pattern of creating Arrows. This patern could be used for free if the character is in a forest or use blank wood.
In counterpart the Druid could generate fruit to retrieve mana or wood for the hunter to use. Interaction between these professions.

What do you think? Too crazy?

[Otaka]

Can't tell if serious or not... It's been a while since I played Skyrim but I recall finding enough arrows to never have to buy any... once I got the Bound Bow I never used arrows again. Once I learned Bound Bow I did not have run back and learn new ranks of it. And I seem to recall fast travel being a thing... kind of like the Flight Master's Whistle. Yeah I'd say Wow is very similar to how Skyrim handled these things.

theres the key word... you FOUND arrows, in wow you dont need to find anything anymore let alone buy. I found/bought arrows in skyrim too, especiaally elven arrows for the vampire bow thingy and then went and turned them into special arrows.
But its not like your bow shoots magically appearing arrows, the arrows come from some place. (even in wow they could have made it so instead of buying you can find them... but that requires them to be included in the mob loottables so they made it much easier even back then so people can just buy them from a vendor instead of having to grind mobs for it, same with all other reagents except soul shards which do magically appear once you drain a soul hence its called a spell)

With Bound Bow its different... thats a spell so ofcourse it doesnt need arrows. But bound bow is not that good compared to the best bows in skyrim especially since you cant upgrade the bound bow, maybe higher ranks of it or if modded you might be able to... but vanilla experience is what matters since you cant really mod these things into WoW it would be breaking the ToS. Now ofcourse if blizzard added them, and they did, it would not be against ToS. (good part about modding is that you dont have to do it yourself... if the developer adds it into the game.... theres not much you can do but accept it. Normally its a choice if you want convenience or not... in some games, skyrim involved, i actually modded it to be less convenient so its more immersive which some might find tedious, but its not like we play games for the speed of consumption? we play for fun and to experience what the game has to offer!)

Fast travel is a thing but not right INTO THE DUNGEON, its usually outside the entrance a few meters away. Kinda like meeting stones... except wow being mmo you need more than 1 person to use a meeting stone since dungeons arent meant to be soloed, they can be these days but it wasnt so accessible back in the day.

Point still stands... wow WAS more immersive and roleplayish the further away from the present version we go.
Some like it some dont... but rpg-games in general has changed quite alot aswell over the years, fast travel being one convenience.
Divinity Original Sin 2 is a good example of an oldschool rpg-game that doesnt have fast travel everywhere (it has specific statues for it), or atleast its alot more oldschool than most other rpgs these days... still probably doesnt compare to old Neverwinter Nights or so.

[Queen of Hamsters]

According to the very definition I posted, nothing has changed. We still take on the role of our characters in a fictional setting. That people try to say "these things are what made it an RPG and since they're gone it isn't anymore" need to get their heads examined cause obviously fishing for stuff to complain about this hard is clearly doing unkind things to their brains.

Indeed.

I find it funny how people seem to think that their personal feels about X feature, somehow determines the genre of the game.
No matter if we feel that the game has more or less RPG based on our own values, the game remains an MMORPG, nothing more and nothing less.

On a personal level, I've felt as though the game has far more focus on the RPG aspects than I've ever experienced before. Sure, I don't have to buy ammo that take up bag space just to function, but that was never part of what made me love the game in the first place.

[Orwell7]

Indeed.

I find it funny how people seem to think that their personal feels about X feature, somehow determines the genre of the game.
No matter if we feel that the game has more or less RPG based on our own values, the game remains an MMORPG, nothing more and nothing less.

On a personal level, I've felt as though the game has far more focus on the RPG aspects than I've ever experienced before. Sure, I don't have to buy ammo that take up bag space just to function, but that was never part of what made me love the game in the first place.

Go play with Counter-Strike which is an MMORPG by your definition.