Far-right activists barred from entering UK

[Deleted]

I'm not a fan of Lauren Southern and her right wing activist ilk, but whenever I see people cheering things like this I wonder, what do you think is the point of free speech? What is the point of even having it if you're just going to ban everyone you disagree with. Southern isn't some nazi advocating for the extermination of all muslim immigrants in the UK, yet she was detained through the use of an anti-terrorism act and barred from entering the country for 'being a threat to the stability of the UK'. She wasn't banned because she wanted to incite a race war, she was banned because she believes the wrong things.

She should not be barred because of some flimsy excuse made possible through the abuse of a law with an entirely different purpose. You don't defeat the ideas you disagree with by banning them, only by defeating them with better ones. Something the people cheering for this ought to remember.

This is the problem, they don't have better ideas and they know they would loose on the even playing field so they resort to banning under ridiculous excuses.

[Deleted]

Islam isn't "posing" as a religion. It is a religion. Like any other. You're just engaging in hateful nonsense regarding it because you're prejudiced, and have yet to present anything even approaching a rational argument.

Why am I not prejudiced and hateful when I oppose Naziism and Scientology then? Explain this to me please.

[JohnBrown1917]

Whether you have 2 parties or 20 it get's a bit more complex and nuanced when you look at specific policies. Enough lefts can make a right and vice versa. That's the danger and labeling them as if they'll stay the same is shortsighted.

Thats nice and all, and no mainstream party holds purely right wing or left wing policies, but that does not really change the idealogy said party follows.

[Sky High]

/shrug

Europe really has its britches in a twist over these idiots and I’m never sure what the actual harm is in letting them speak and letting the rest of us point and laugh at them.

[Tiwack]

Thats nice and all, and no mainstream party holds purely right wing or left wing policies, but that does not really change the idealogy said party follows.

True but saying it's right or left, as if it's purely that, is more often than not wrong as well, when more than just two ideologies exist

[Endus]

Why am I not prejudiced and hateful when I oppose Naziism and Scientology then? Explain this to me please.

This is like asking why you're not allowed to punch your wife in the face, but you can slap her ass playfully. It's an inherently dishonest equivalence, and I'm sure you know it.

I've already explained why. They are not equatable. Trying to do so is dishonest. If you think they ARE equatable, that's hate speech, because it's objectively wrong.

What next, ask me why it's wrong to think blacks should be enslaved? The answers are obvious to anyone who isn't prejudiced.

Nazism involves explicit and definitive harm to others, in the course of implementing its views.
Islam does not.

Again, this stuff is bleedingly obvious.

[Tiwack]

/shrug

Europe really has its britches in a twist over these idiots and I’m never sure what the actual harm is in letting them speak and letting the rest of us point and laugh at them.

The fact that they're relentless and have a flair with instigating village idiots and vulnerable individuals to commit violence and criminal activities on their behalf? They want chaos so suddenly people aren't laughing and suddenly they're seriously considering their attracting feelgood bullshit that has no basis in reality.

[Acidz]

mmoc goons feeling mistreated again. Glorious.

[retnoodle]

You want to talk about religions?

Wow you mean Islam and the Catholic church have a lot of similarities?

/Shocked

except you don't see Catholics going around blowing everything up on a regular basis (IRA was political not religious), beheading people while filming it, and setting people on fire.

seems to me that predominately Catholic societies (Mexico, Ireland, Brazil, etc.) also don't have those pesky laws that prohibit women from doing things like, I don't know, voting or driving?

you are literally a potatoe

[Sky High]

The fact that they're relentless and have a flair with instigating village idiots and vulnerable individuals to commit violence and criminal activities on their behalf?

Not sure where you’re from but where I’ve lived my whole life any speech short of inciting direct and immediate harm to others is just a consequence of having free speech.

[Deleted]

This is like asking why you're not allowed to punch your wife in the face, but you can slap her ass playfully. It's an inherently dishonest equivalence, and I'm sure you know it.

I've already explained why. They are not equatable. Trying to do so is dishonest. If you think they ARE equatable, that's hate speech, because it's objectively wrong.
.

Why are they not equatable? Beside one (or two if you count scientology) worshipping a supernatural being, why can't I compare the core messages of each ideology?

[Mlz]

You don't defeat the ideas you disagree with by banning them, only by confronting them with better ones. Something the people cheering for this ought to remember.

It's good on paper but doesn't work in real life. You assume that people are intelligent and will understand logical arguments. However, movements like anti-vaccination are still on-going despite the fact that there scientific explanations how vaccines work and why they should be used. And you still get people who go full 'lalalala' on this and endanger not only themselves but people around them. People are prone to sensational claims a'la 'Daily Mail' and also willing to take pitchforks to deliver some mob justice based on those controversial claims. Intelligent discussion and debate is just not possible with certain groups of people.

[Endus]

Why are they not equatable? Beside one (or two if you count scientology) worshipping a supernatural being, why can't I compare the core messages of each ideology?

Because you aren't comparing them. You're making up hateful bullshit about Islam. That's the point.

[Graeham]

Say what you will about Lauren Southern but she's one of the few speaking up about the horrific treatment and murders of Caucasians in South Africa. It's very interesting how the mainstream media largely ignores such things - as do the various charities and humanitarian organisations seeking to tackle oppression and prejudice.

There's also a pretty blatant effort by various organisations within the United Kingdom to brand anyone expressing concerns about controversial subjects as 'Far Right' even when that isn't applicable. You see it a lot on this forum, too - many people just aren't willing or capable of having a civil, mature debate these days.

Now, as someone who is actually British and currently living here? The country is a complete mess at the moment. Anyone wanting to get outraged at Lauren Southern should, instead, direct their outrage at the disgusting grooming gangs, corrupt politicians and the cruel treatment of the working class, the disabled and the elderly.

[Tiwack]

Not sure where you’re from but where I’ve lived my whole life any speech short of inciting direct and immediate harm to others is just a consequence of having free speech.

They want chaos so suddenly people aren't laughing and suddenly they're seriously considering their attracting feelgood bullshit that has no basis in reality. It's a threat to be taken serious in order to maintain a tolerant society and they're constantly awaiting their chance as their numbers rise and fall over the years as they patiently await the perfect conditions to be met and align for a run at power followed by a coup to empower their family and practice their nepotism.

[Poppincaps]

So honestly I don't feel it's the place of people from outside countries to tell people in other countries how to run their countries unless how they're behaving is affecting the other countries or if they are breaking human rights laws. As such I don't believe the laws of free speech extend to visitors. I don't believe you should be arrested or anything, but I find it completely reasonable that a country should be allowed to deport you.

With that being said, difference of opinion is essential to growth. So I would say to the people who wanted to hear these people speak. Find right wing leaders in your own communities. Ones who understand the issues that may be specific to your specific country and have them speak.

As an example, if someone from the UK wanted to come to the US and speak about racism in the US I'd likely tell them to fuck off regardless of their stance (right or left) because it's a complex topic, one that they couldn't possibly accurately tackle unless they've lived in the US. Same with the migrant situation in the UK. Yes, we have immigration issues in the U.S., but they aren't the same as the ones in the UK.

[Sky High]

They want chaos so suddenly people aren't laughing and suddenly they're seriously considering their attracting feelgood bullshit that has no basis in reality. It's a threat to be taken serious in order to maintain a tolerant society and they're constantly awaiting their chance as their numbers rise and fall over the years as they patiently await the perfect conditions to be met and align for a run at power followed by a coup.

Oooohkay buddy, you have fun worrying about that shit.

[Hilhen7]

except you don't see Catholics going around blowing everything up on a regular basis (IRA was political not religious), beheading people while filming it, and setting people on fire.

seems to me that predominately Catholic societies (Mexico, Ireland, Brazil, etc.) also don't have those pesky laws that prohibit women from doing things like, I don't know, voting or driving?

you are literally a potatoe

Nah instead we had Crusades, witch hunts, Spanish inquisition. Nope Catholics never barred women from voting or burned them at the stake for doing things men didn't like.

Sure it may not be current, but let's not pretend that these things where not done in the name of religion. Let's not pretend certain things where not in the bible...

[Deleted]

Because you aren't comparing them. You're making up hateful bullshit about Islam. That's the point.

And you are calling facts hate speech, bullshit and dishonest. Thats the point. How many Islam-majority countries show tolerance towards minorities and other religions and how many do not?

[Rooflesstoofless]

This is what the UK is afraid of: