If the faction war in BfA got to Silvermoon ...

[Obelisk Kai]

I'm sure the idea of any human touching their sunwell would be enough to cause the average blood elf to vomit, which is why I stand by the idea that the Blood elves would destroy the sunwell before ever letting the Alliance get their grubby hands on it.

Not going to re-read this topic in it's entirety but I doubt it will get that far.

Quel'thalas is protected by two things. Gameplay armour and design limitations.

Gameplay armor in that the Horde having a major city in the Eastern Kingdoms as a base for their players (and vice versa with the Alliance in Kalimdor with the Exodar) is probably a requirment.

Design in that updating Quel'thalas to reflect the modern world is probably more trouble than it is worth, although not impossible.

IF the Alliance attacks Quel'thalas I think it will be a big story moment to push the story forward, but that the Alliance will ultimately fail and will not take Silvermoon.

[Doffen]

First, I’m talking about the divine bell and Jaina. She was helping Darnassus before the divine bell was stolen by the Sunreavers.

Allright, fair enough. I can see why you think that is going against neutrality. Now, the Night Elves didn't take it from the Horde, and Jaina helped them secure it. What Aethas did was to outright steal it. But anyway, fair point.

Then, without a trial nor investigation, allowed the Silver Covenant to begin a massacre of innocents whilst she wrongfully imprisoned the rest. She was also shown to have Alliance forces secreted away within the city before hand to be unleashed upon the civilian populace at her discretion.

Again, her interference with Darnassus and her hiding those troops away is all before Garrosh’s spy framed the Sunreavers.

While the Silver Covenant did go way too far, you can only blame so much on Jaina. She ordered them to round them up and evict them from the city. If your leader tells you to do this, but you do something else, you are the one to blame. But Jaina might have been too straight forward to the Silver Covenant.

As for Genn. The reason those orders are ‘unofficial’ is because they’re doing it without wanting Anduin to know. Anduin only ordered them to capture the Aegis. Genn and Rogers had their own motivations and ‘unofficial’ goals. I’m not saying those motivations were wrong or without reason, but they were against orders.

No, Anduin had sent Seventh Legion troops to deal with this unofficial mission. He certainly knew about it. I guess they made it unofficial towards the joint forces against Legion, class halls etc.

[Aeula]

Allright, fair enough. I can see why you think that is going against neutrality. Now, the Night Elves didn't take it from the Horde, and Jaina helped them secure it. What Aethas did was to outright steal it. But anyway, fair point.

While the Silver Covenant did go way too far, you can only blame so much on Jaina. She ordered them to round them up and evict them from the city. If your leader tells you to do this, but you do something else, you are the one to blame. But Jaina might have been too straight forward to the Silver Covenant.


No, Anduin had sent Seventh Legion troops to deal with this unofficial mission. He certainly knew about it. I guess they made it unofficial towards the joint forces against Legion, class halls etc.

Yeah, I was wrong about the Genn part, someone else put me right.

[Jack Black]

What Silvermoon's counter in Kalimdor? Right Exodar. You think if Horde attacked it they would take it? Right. Same answer for Silvermoon.

I mean all these shields, gates and super saynian blood elves mages are decorations. If Alliance attack Silvermoon they will take it. Same goes for Exodar/Azuremyst Isles.

[Deleted]

an entire planet's worth of orcs =/= a "Crack squad " of void elves. There is still the Frostwolf clan yes,and the Laughing skul. We killed iron Horde forces yes, but we never wiped out any clans. Game population doesn't translated well to real life, but I'd compare it to a world war where you could lose a hundred thousand men, but that wouldn't mean there were no longer any humans in your nation.

The Grimtotem got Thunderbluff through subterfuge, not direct confrontation

The Scarlet crusade comes down to writing inconsistency, the Forsaken killed all their leaders in Vanilla, and then in cata they wiped them out, only to have the dungeon updated again in Mop to have them wiped out again.

The Forsaken also delt with the seventh legion and the stormpike, I'd call them a proven force.

The forsaken only nearly lost Andorhol because Koltira was an inept Moron that chose the wrong faction.

Comparing Void Elves, who are fundamentally a small sect, with a entire planet populated by Orcs is misguided. We fought and killed orcs of Draenor, true, but Orc clans still remain and they are probably creating new generations of warriors. All those orcs coming over to Azeroth will give a large population boost for the Horde. Once again I mention Iron Horde style industrialization which could happen in Horde heartlands and Night Elves will get steamrolled.

What could hypothetically save Night Elves is for entire Alliance power of Eastern Kingdoms to come to their aid, although then Forsaken and Blood Elves could march forward and conquer.

[bloodmoth13]

Due to the unwant of updating Ghostlands and higher, nothing will happen to either the Sin'dorei areas or the Draenic.

I assume what will happen is the Alliance will offer to leave the Thalassian lands alone if the Horde agrees to leave the Draenic islands untouched. Sylvanas will agree, partially because she doesn't want to lose the Sin'dorei's support and risk the support of the Horde at large, but also because a small part of her still desires to protect her former homeland. Blizz effectively excuses itself from updating either area.


I would love for something far more dramatic to happen, however.

For example, the Zandalari join the Horde at just the right moment and strong-arm the Amani into doing something nobody ever thought possible - protecting Quel'thalas. The Zandalari and their Amani vassals reinforce the Sin'dorei to such an effect that the Alliance considers it a waste of resources to try to take land they're not really interested in to begin with. Unlike Lordaeron, the humans are unable to muster any real passion for the area and say to hell with it, but the threat of a Horde invasion from the north is always in the back of their mind.

Reasoning for that, I think the Sin'dorei being indebted to the trolls would be deliciously petty, somewhat like the Shal'dorei-Kal'dorei-Sin'dorei-Quel'dorei drama pre-Nighthold.


Alternatively, the Alliance successfully sacks Quel'thalas and the Sunwell becomes under Ren'dorei/Quel'dorei control. The Ren'dorei cause it to destabilize (not destroyed, though) and for once we actually get cross-racial tension in the Alliance. Lightforged get mad, Quel'dorei get mad, Night Elves think it's hilarious and subtly hope all the lesser elves just blow themselves up for their magical abuse. The Sin'dorei have an absolute tantrum about it and players finally stop asking why the Sin'dorei remain in the Horde.

Sin'dorei settle into Dire Maul and attempt to restore it into a livable city, and "remember the sunwell" actually starts to make sense again.

I had an idea that the blood elves would pull a dalaran and turn their city into a floating megaweapon, similarly the exodar is back online ever since that one short story.
This would mean those zones could be vacated without any serious detriment. This would allow those cities to exist outside of their BC limbos.

I love your idea of quel thalas getting sacked and destroyed by void elves. As you said it would cement sindoreis position in the horde utterly! would REALLY go a long way to giving alliance some internal strife, and give the horde a good outlet for their ally hatred. Its not that i hate the blood elves, its that i hate the story getting so friendly.

As for the amani, they are hostile to the horde in zandalar. Personally id love zuljin to be ressurected and brought back into the horde (plot revolving around bwonsamdi, voljin, zuljin, sylvanas and hela/helheim that explains voljins decision to make sylvanas warchief) but i know thats not gonna happen. What i think is more likely is that the amani join the alliance (GASP!) and the alliance give them what they have always wanted: quell thalas & the ghostlands.
Id actually really hate that, (im horde and i love my trolls) but i wouldnt be surprised to see that happen either...

[Kallisto]

Alright, true.

Still shows them at least bending Anduin’s orders. It’s clear that the boy-king’s control over the Alliance isn’t absolute. Which is essentially what I’m trying to prove. To give credence to the idea that the Alliance could, knowingly or otherwise, corrupt the Sunwell, giving the Blood Elves more than enough reason to prevent that and destroy it to keep it out of Alliance hands.

I'd say not only is the boy-king's control not absolute but actually Genn is the one who really is in charge (The master so to speak). Using Anduin's inexperience to set the alliance agenda. Not unlike how in quite a few times during old Arabic/Turkish empires/Kingdoms the Vizir could have more sway over things than the Sultan even though technically the Sultan was the one who was meant to be in charge.

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Allright, fair enough. I can see why you think that is going against neutrality. Now, the Night Elves didn't take it from the Horde, and Jaina helped them secure it. What Aethas did was to outright steal it. But anyway, fair point.

While the Silver Covenant did go way too far, you can only blame so much on Jaina. She ordered them to round them up and evict them from the city. If your leader tells you to do this, but you do something else, you are the one to blame. But Jaina might have been too straight forward to the Silver Covenant.

Aethas had nothing to do with the divine bell incident outside of stumbling on it when it had already taken place. During the divine bell and Theramore incidents there was a grand total of ONE (not one hundre, one thousand or one hundred thousand.), ONE Sunreaver actually involved in the two things. You can't pin that on Aethas unless you have an idea that actually saves the lives of every blood elf from the wrath of Garrosh (if he told) or Jaina (if he doesn't).

As for Jaina, her letting the Silver Covenant doing her dirty work and expecting the Silver Covenant to play nice with what she ordered would be essentially late 1800s president telling the KKK to go out there and just help peacefully remove African Americans. It's stupidity at best to expect them not to round up and kill/torture them all. Or you knew it was going to happen and essentially got off knowing it was going to happen.

[Magister of Quelthalas]

The Alliance can try to invade. They maybe can get through the woods and maybe even conquer Silvermoon but it WILL end the Alliance military power. Ghostlands is not a peaceful place and Sin'dorei knows how to fight. And at this point they are not weak in anyway either.
From what I heard they take a lot of loses in the Battle for Lordaeron.

[baskev]

That would be extremely unbelievable for the alliance to get Draenor Orcs. Saurfang would face Sylvanas in combat before turning on the Horde, so don't get your hopes up

I was joking.

Without spoilers there has been some data leaks about saurfang.

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The Army of the Light is no longer neutral and the ship IS being used by Lightforged soldiers in the field. Hence their racial.

I'm saying that Jaina also broke neutrality. The massacre happened when she let loose Silver Covenant and Alliance troops who killed shopkeepers and civilians who were simply running around in fear.

What Genn did afterwards doesn't matter, especially since that was coincidental. He disobeyed Anduin's orders, abusing Alliance assets to pursue vengeance.

The Alliance is the same. Again, this was confirmed in chronicle.

1. I'm not saying the facts are new, I'm laying out things that are confirmed in lore so that you understand what a fact is.

2. The Nightborne recruitment quest clearly shows that it doesn't matter what the Alliance wants, they're not interested. They also know that they have the rest of the Horde to back them if Sylvanas goes crazy.

3. The Blood Elves have NO guarantee that the Alliance wouldn't abuse it and you have no evidence to prove that they wouldn't. They're abusing Azerite after all. Which is the WoW-equivalent of a WMD.

4. Saurfang is the only one not happy with it. Nobody else comments. Saurfang is also an old fool who lost his son to the blight, it probably triggered his PTSD.

5. We still don't know the full effects of void on the sunwell, blizzard wouldn't have shown Alleria's effect on it if they weren't going to make it an issue again in the future.

6. The Alliance didn't 'sacrifice' anything. Velen used a Naaru core, who was not part of the Alliance when it was alive, to reforge the Sunwell. Velen helped, but he didn't sacrifice anything. Left alone that core was worthless.

7. Velen has no more control over the Void Elves, Genn and Jaina than Anduin does. Plus he seems to be retiring for a bit after Argus.

I have backed up the majority of my points with events that are canon to the lore. If you're too ignorant to go to wowpedia or read the chronicles then that's your business.

But it was. And again i have prove, alliance does not abuse weapons like that.

Most of them where not murdered. ( but yeah it was a bad slaughter). But question what happened first...theramore and then the abuse of neutrality of dalaran by the hord...or jaina's rampage...

And yes genn did something bad. But it turned out to be the best move. Garrosh was nice once. Does not make him a great person.

So now we are using books...you said ingame lore and now books choose please :P


1.) No you are spouting nonsense and not given any facts . You know proof with text, ingame cinematics , quests etc.
2.) Look into data mined stuff 1 horde member is not so happy with them. A major one who has a lot of sway.
3.) Yeah first i have proven that they will not. And Azerite.....alliance only started to USE it after the horde was mining it full force .
4.) Seeing as you use books: council of the forsaken is also not happy with her tactics. Neither is cow prince with galliwix and sylvanna's plans.
5.) Or they showed why the void elves will not enter city.
6.) He did. And they did. Because if its so powerful and the alliance is so bad , they just gave a big weapon back to the horde/blood elves.
7.) But velen has more influence over Anduin then jaina and genn combined. And it has been shown that anduin is breaking away from them ingame.

You have not. You state things without linking proof . I have linked stuff from wowpedia. you have not !

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Once again, you confuse predictions for facts, and you treat your opinions as if they cannot be challenged, you confuse what you think for proof.

Nope i do not. Once again you are trying to twist stuff. I had a opinion, with is based on facts. That does not mean my opinion is law or will happen. It only says that it has some base in facts. And they can be challenged but they have not been. Because eachtime i give facts, or base opinion of things that happen in game. I get no response on par.

How the fuck did you confuse mana forges for the Vindicaar?

We where talking about the power of the vindecars weapon. That is what happens when you do not use qoute's . the posts get messed up.

How the fuck does Sylvanas using blight on the Alliance somehow make the Blood elves not trust the Alliance. You claim to think from their perspective, but you're trying to twist it through some wierd looking glass, have you forgotten how the blood elves feel about the Alliance, how again they rejected them when Alleria came with an offer, and you think that if the Alliance invaded, that the Blood elves would trust them would not use them as they feel they have been used before?

Because its a garrosh level move. Most if not all races in azoroth hate the blight. Simply because of all the death it has caused. The fact its a bio weapon. I am not trying to twist it. Look at the response of blight ingame by most races.
Trust in them as a group might not be great. But i have proven they will not abuse a weapon like that.

Try much, much harder.

Says the person who uses qoute marks for the first time

Point out a single lie, source your opinions.

It is canon, that the blood elves do not trust the Alliance, it is canon that they once again reject the Alliance. It is canon that they have destroyed the sunwell in the past, and the arcane energy harvested to kickstart it was tearing outland apart.

Where is your info? Can you even link it?

https://wow.gamepedia.com/Sunwell here you go. Your lie. Alliance never treid to destroy the sunwell . Trolls did and lich king try to and gul dan.

Once again, you proved only that you have no idea what you are talking about. You haven't sourced anything, and so far your only "Argument' is trying to shoehorn in an opinion of the Alliance that the Blood elves do not share at all.

I have. I have linked several quests, lore pages on wow pedia etc. If you do not choose to read it. Not my problem.

Stop splurging over the board and bring something actually concrete than a series of "Nu' uhs" and your own take on facts.

Again, i am not the one doing this. I have linked ( again in this post) to wowpedia. I have copy and paste text from wowpedia in my response's. I have linked to wowhead quests. Nice of you to be blind to them.
So putting your fingers in your ears and start humming so you can not be disprove does not make you right .

[Friendlyimmolation]

But it was. And again i have prove, alliance does not abuse weapons like that.

Again, for the twentieth or so time, so it can stick with you, plenty of the Alliance have wanted to use powerful weapons before, Rogers, Jaina. The guy that could hold them back is dead. EVEN THEN, even if they would not try to use it, the blood elves would not trust what they said. Do you at least understand that part? The blood elves would not allow humans, and other Alliance races to touch their sunwell in the first place, let alone give them the chance to harness it.

Most of them where not murdered. ( but yeah it was a bad slaughter). But question what happened first...theramore and then the abuse of neutrality of dalaran by the hord...or jaina's rampage...

It does not change the Blood elves' view of the Alliance, and makes this entire argument of yours even more ridiculous.

And yes genn did something bad. But it turned out to be the best move. Garrosh was nice once. Does not make him a great person.

So now we are using books...you said ingame lore and now books choose please :P

You do realize books and in-game lore are both canon right? Both apply to the story.

1.) No you are spouting nonsense and not given any facts . You know proof with text, ingame cinematics , quests etc.

How many times must it be repeated to you that the Blood elves want nothing to do with the Alliance, and sure as hell would not trust them to be anywhere near or allow them to harness their most sacred site?

2.) Look into data mined stuff 1 horde member is not so happy with them. A major one who has a lot of sway.

Which means nothing, once again you're "But Sylvanas" does not make your other point any stronger.

3.) Yeah first i have proven that they will not. And Azerite.....alliance only started to USE it after the horde was mining it full force .

"it doesn't count cuz they used it second"

4.) Seeing as you use books: council of the forsaken is also not happy with her tactics. Neither is cow prince with galliwix and sylvanna's plans.

Baine has so far had no dialogue against Sylvanas, and again means nothing to do with the fact that you're trying to say the blood elves would give up their sunwell.

5.) Or they showed why the void elves will not enter city.

That is some incredible attempt at dismissal at your end. The Blood elves know that the Alliance has forces capable of corrupting the Sunwell, they know that they have several members willing to do anything to win, and you still honestly, seriously think they would simply nod and go "We trust you" rather then destroy the Sunwell to prevent it falling into enemy hands? You have paid no attention to their story what so ever.

.) He did. And they did. Because if its so powerful and the alliance is so bad , they just gave a big weapon back to the horde/blood elves.

You mean Velen reignited the Sunwell, not the Alliance, and certainly not a human.

) But velen has more influence over Anduin then jaina and genn combined. And it has been shown that anduin is breaking away from them ingame.

What year are you posting from? Genn so far is Anduin's biggest advisor, he's standing next to and watching over Anduin, not Velen.

You have not. You state things without linking proof . I have linked stuff from wowpedia. you have not !

Your jumbled logic is proof of nothing other than you are still floundering on what is fact and what is your own fiction. Stop trying to paint a OOC layer of trust over the in-universe perspective of the Alliance the Blood elves have.

We where talking about the power of the vindecars weapon. That is what happens when you do not use qoute's . the posts get messed up.

We were talking about how the Alliance would be unable to harness the energy required to restart a destroyed Sunwell, by your own logic they wouldn't be able to.

Because its a garrosh level move. Most if not all races in azoroth hate the blight. Simply because of all the death it has caused. The fact its a bio weapon. I am not trying to twist it. Look at the response of blight ingame by most races.
Trust in them as a group might not be great. But i have proven they will not abuse a weapon like that.

You proved nothing, because one of the biggest Alliance characters this expansion fully supports beating the Horde by any means necessary, and Genn certainly isn't far behind. You would have to bring actual, factual proof that the Alliance would not try to use, or abuse the Sunwell,
and then you would have to prove that the Blood elves would trust the Alliance even if it was the case. Blood elves still mistrust the Alliance over Garithos, and you honestly think that they would let the Alliance have their Sunwell?

Says the person who uses qoute marks for the first time

Stunning, this is the strength of your argument.

https://wow.gamepedia.com/Sunwell here you go. Your lie. Alliance never treid to destroy the sunwell . Trolls did and lich king try to and gul dan.

Holy shit, your reading and basic understanding is near non-existent. You're seriously trying or honestly thinking that I said the Alliance already tried to destroy the Sunwell?

I will repeat this for you again, so you can possibly understand. The Blood elves, have destroyed their Sunwell before rather than have it captured by enemies. Nothing leads to the fact that they wouldn't do so again, rather then let the Alliance have it.


So my "Lie" was simply you not actually reading.

I have. I have linked several quests, lore pages on wow pedia etc. If you do not choose to read it. Not my problem.

None of which actually proved the idea that the Blood elves would trust the Alliance to have their Sunwell.

Again, i am not the one doing this. I have linked ( again in this post) to wowpedia. I have copy and paste text from wowpedia in my response's. I have linked to wowhead quests. Nice of you to be blind to them.
So putting your fingers in your ears and start humming so you can not be disprove does not make you right .

Once again, prove your point or stop splurging, so far you have done nothing but inflate your postcount. Prove the Blood elves would ever trust the Alliance to capture and not use or abuse their Sunwell, prove that they would not destroy their Sunwell rather than let it fall into enemy hands like they did before.

[Aeula]

So now we are using books...you said ingame lore and now books choose please :P

I'm using canon lore. Since you clearly don't understand what that is there really isn't any point in talking to you.

[Doffen]

Aethas had nothing to do with the divine bell incident outside of stumbling on it when it had already taken place. During the divine bell and Theramore incidents there was a grand total of ONE (not one hundre, one thousand or one hundred thousand.), ONE Sunreaver actually involved in the two things. You can't pin that on Aethas unless you have an idea that actually saves the lives of every blood elf from the wrath of Garrosh (if he told) or Jaina (if he doesn't).

https://twitter.com/DaveKosak/status/429404704209006593
Blizz states he knew about it. He just decided to "look" the other way. He betrayed the Kirin Tor. Simple as that.

As for Jaina, her letting the Silver Covenant doing her dirty work and expecting the Silver Covenant to play nice with what she ordered would be essentially late 1800s president telling the KKK to go out there and just help peacefully remove African Americans. It's stupidity at best to expect them not to round up and kill/torture them all. Or you knew it was going to happen and essentially got off knowing it was going to happen.

Nah, as I wrote, she was a bit too forward with the message(meaning, she could have had some toughts before sending the Silver Covenant on them) she should have sent a warning in the same order to the Silver Covenant that any actions outside her orders should be punished, for sure.

Does not change the fact that what you do, is all up to you. So like I wrote, you can blame only so much on Jaina, but you can put something on her, definitely.

[Oneirophobia]

I had an idea that the blood elves would pull a dalaran and turn their city into a floating megaweapon, similarly the exodar is back online ever since that one short story.
This would mean those zones could be vacated without any serious detriment. This would allow those cities to exist outside of their BC limbos.

I love your idea of quel thalas getting sacked and destroyed by void elves. As you said it would cement sindoreis position in the horde utterly! would REALLY go a long way to giving alliance some internal strife, and give the horde a good outlet for their ally hatred. Its not that i hate the blood elves, its that i hate the story getting so friendly.

As for the amani, they are hostile to the horde in zandalar. Personally id love zuljin to be ressurected and brought back into the horde (plot revolving around bwonsamdi, voljin, zuljin, sylvanas and hela/helheim that explains voljins decision to make sylvanas warchief) but i know thats not gonna happen. What i think is more likely is that the amani join the alliance (GASP!) and the alliance give them what they have always wanted: quell thalas & the ghostlands.
Id actually really hate that, (im horde and i love my trolls) but i wouldnt be surprised to see that happen either...

You do a questline in which you beat the Amani into submission for the Zandalari. They’re a disloyal vassal state at the moment, the gurubashi are in the same boat.

[baskev]

I'm using canon lore. Since you clearly don't understand what that is there really isn't any point in talking to you.

Because you said ingame lore before. When i used book lore you said only ingame lore.
Because canon lore also intales book lore. But you said ingame lore. And some things from books do not happen/talked about in game.

[Aeula]

Because you said ingame lore before. When i used book lore you said only ingame lore.
Because canon lore also intales book lore. But you said ingame lore. And some things from books do not happen/talked about in game.

I never said that.

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cement sindoreis position in the horde utterly!

Personally id love zuljin to be ressurected and brought back into the horde

These two things cannot happen in the same timeline. No sane Blood Elf would accept the Amani and Zul'jin joining the horde, no matter what the Alliance has done.

[bloodmoth13]

I never said that.

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These two things cannot happen in the same timeline. No sane Blood Elf would accept the Amani and Zul'jin joining the horde, no matter what the Alliance has done.

it could, would require a heck of a write up, but i get you. Im worried blizz will make the amani join the alliance...

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You do a questline in which you beat the Amani into submission for the Zandalari. They’re a disloyal vassal state at the moment, the gurubashi are in the same boat.

Yeah, i saw that, which i s why i get the impression that they might join the alliance... which would suuuuck, but they havent been part of the horde since war2

[baskev]

Again, for the twentieth or so time, so it can stick with you, plenty of the Alliance have wanted to use powerful weapons before, Rogers, Jaina. The guy that could hold them back is dead. EVEN THEN, even if they would not try to use it, the blood elves would not trust what they said. Do you at least understand that part? The blood elves would not allow humans, and other Alliance races to touch their sunwell in the first place, let alone give them the chance to harness it.

Again its about will the abuse it. You have not proven any of it. I have proven alliance can handle big "weapons" with using them. You have not. Only shouting that you are right.

It does not change the Blood elves' view of the Alliance, and makes this entire argument of yours even more ridiculous.

It does. Getting civilians out of a city and putting most people in jail vs just killing all of them makes for completely different story telling. We arrested the village ( and released them later) or we mass murdered them.

You do realize books and in-game lore are both canon right? Both apply to the story.

Yes, but you do realize that both add to each other. And you and your other friend seems to switch in between them. Sometimes i can use both. But othertimes you act like its not okay.

How many times must it be repeated to you that the Blood elves want nothing to do with the Alliance, and sure as hell would not trust them to be anywhere near or allow them to harness their most sacred site?

What has this to do with my proving stuff ? with ingame stuff. This is not even a response to my remark. :P

But to react to you and make this post even longer. Because they know they will not destroy or abuse their holy site. So no need to destroy it. You know because it is your most holy site.

Which means nothing, once again you're "But Sylvanas" does not make your other point any stronger.

You started it. You said no one has problems with the way she is doing stuff. I responded to it. So you are the one using the sylvanas card.

"it doesn't count cuz they used it second"

Yes. Its a arms race that the horde started. They could have used diplomacy to solve it and heal the world. The alliance way. Or just mine and abuse it the horde way.

Baine has so far had no dialogue against Sylvanas, and again means nothing to do with the fact that you're trying to say the blood elves would give up their sunwell.

Nope you are right, but he does not trust galliwix. And it is clearly shown he has a distaste for the situation.
And nope it has nothing to do with it. But again a response to a question/remark of you.

That is some incredible attempt at dismissal at your end. The Blood elves know that the Alliance has forces capable of corrupting the Sunwell, they know that they have several members willing to do anything to win, and you still honestly, seriously think they would simply nod and go "We trust you" rather then destroy the Sunwell to prevent it falling into enemy hands? You have paid no attention to their story what so ever.

Nope, its a risk they might take if it would happen ( will not happen ingame ).
And i have proven time and time again ( with links and all) that the alliance will not do it.
Your but some bad people might do something...Alliance has not done that. Even they hate the horde a lot ( some of them). They would not do that. We are not the horde who have destroyed ( if this would happen) 3 major city's and a shit ton of small settlements.

You mean Velen reignited the Sunwell, not the Alliance, and certainly not a human.

Velen is part of the alliance. Mentor of anduin. Velen is dreanei , a race hunted and killed by blood elves and orcs... So he has as much reason to hate them. But still he chose to help them. And since the alliance did not stop him in anyway they allowed it. so...

What year are you posting from? Genn so far is Anduin's biggest advisor, he's standing next to and watching over Anduin, not Velen.

He is the military adviser. The person who has trained him the most and the word he trust the most is velen.

Your jumbled logic is proof of nothing other than you are still floundering on what is fact and what is your own fiction. Stop trying to paint a OOC layer of trust over the in-universe perspective of the Alliance the Blood elves have.

I am not. And i am only so jumbled because you keep jumping from hoop to hoop. Bringing up other things like sylvanas etc. And you keep shouting where is your proof. And i supply it. Yet i have not seen 1 link from you proving anything you say.

We were talking about how the Alliance would be unable to harness the energy required to restart a destroyed Sunwell, by your own logic they wouldn't be able to.

We where not. We ended that conversation earlier. But again if you started to quote sooner then it would have been easier for us not to get in this mess.
But lets respond to you. They would be able to....man if we only had a great source of power like the blood of a living titan seeping out of the ground...and the remains or a naruu...wait we have both.

You proved nothing, because one of the biggest Alliance characters this expansion fully supports beating the Horde by any means necessary, and Genn certainly isn't far behind. You would have to bring actual, factual proof that the Alliance would not try to use, or abuse the Sunwell,
and then you would have to prove that the Blood elves would trust the Alliance even if it was the case. Blood elves still mistrust the Alliance over Garithos, and you honestly think that they would let the Alliance have their Sunwell?

I have proven it. By linking you time and time again. I have linked other WMD and Great power sources they did not abuse.
And would the trust them. And yes it is there most holy site. If they think they can retake the city. And it can not be used by the alliance as weapon. They they will leave it. And if the alliance ( witch they can) restart it. Destroying it would not even help then.

Stunning, this is the strength of your argument.

Yes. Strong huh. Quote's make it easy to read. I tried it several times for you and Aeula..but you did not use them.

Holy shit, your reading and basic understanding is near non-existent. You're seriously trying or honestly thinking that I said the Alliance already tried to destroy the Sunwell?

.... really going after grammar. but hey

This is what you typed:

It is canon, that the blood elves do not trust the Alliance, it is canon that they once again reject the Alliance. It is canon that they have destroyed the sunwell in the past, and the arcane energy harvested to kickstart it was tearing outland apart.

Grammar wise you are talking about the last faction/person you talked about when you use they...Lets say 1 BE, the 2 times alliance...
So ...

I will repeat this for you again, so you can possibly understand. The Blood elves, have destroyed their Sunwell before rather than have it captured by enemies. Nothing leads to the fact that they wouldn't do so again, rather then let the Alliance have it.

Yes i know. But i repeat this again so you can understand ( man you are rude and like to talk down to people do you not...does not proof your points btw).
Those factions both where there to ABUSE the sunwell. I have for the 1001 times said/proven/theorized that the alliance will not do it. They have not done it before. They are the reason why its still online.

So my "Lie" was simply you not actually reading.

Nope. It you saying i did not link and read my stuff. Witch i did. It was about alliance destroying the sunwell. Witch they did not.

None of which actually proved the idea that the Blood elves would trust the Alliance to have their Sunwell.

It does. Not to keep it for ever. But not to abuse it.

Once again, prove your point or stop splurging, so far you have done nothing but inflate your postcount. Prove the Blood elves would ever trust the Alliance to capture and not use or abuse their Sunwell, prove that they would not destroy their Sunwell rather than let it fall into enemy hands like they did before.

I have proven my point time and time again. You have yet to do so. You say the alliance would abuse it. Proof it!!! proof means show me proof they abuse WMD or great power sources like that. Proof it!!!

[Friendlyimmolation]

Again its about will the abuse it. You have not proven any of it. I have proven alliance can handle big "weapons" with using them. You have not. Only shouting that you are right.

Holy crap, you're so unable to look from an in-universe perspective that I am surprised you're arguing in the lore forum.

It does. Getting civilians out of a city and putting most people in jail vs just killing all of them makes for completely different story telling. We arrested the village ( and released them later) or we mass murdered them.

You do realize the blood elves distrust the Alliance right? They do not want to be their friends. There are no signs of any form of reconceliation, and the blood elves saw it as yet another Garithos styled betrayal from Dalaran.

Yes, but you do realize that both add to each other. And you and your other friend seems to switch in between them. Sometimes i can use both. But othertimes you act like its not okay.

Switching in between them means nothing, I have no idea why you are trying to make an issue out of @Aeula being informed. You can use both if you actually are trying to bring up story points, facts or otherwise to a discussion, rather than your own agenda.

What has this to do with my proving stuff ? with ingame stuff. This is not even a response to my remark. :P

But to react to you and make this post even longer. Because they know they will not destroy or abuse their holy site. So no need to destroy it. You know because it is your most holy site.

How can you be so unable to realize that the severe lack of trust the blood elves have towards the Alliance would lead them to believe that anything would be better than letting a hostile foreign power control their sunwell, including destroying it.

It is beyond obvious now you are inescapable of looking at it from the perspective of the blood elves. If anything, the Sunwell being their most holy sight makes them all the more likely to destroy it if the Alliance broke through. Destruction before desecration.

You started it. You said no one has problems with the way she is doing stuff. I responded to it. So you are the one using the sylvanas card.

You mean when you tried to bring up her actions as a reason the Blood elves would leave you mean.

Yes. Its a arms race that the horde started. They could have used diplomacy to solve it and heal the world. The alliance way. Or just mine and abuse it the horde way.

"were using Powerful weapons, but we promise not to use the sunwell."

You still haven't proved (despite your repetition of the phrase 'I Proof") That the Alliance if it could would use the Sunwell, and you haven't proved that the blood elves would trust or even give them the chance to try.

There is no magical "alliance way" They are just as willing to fight as the Horde.

Nope, its a risk they might take if it would happen ( will not happen ingame ).
And i have proven time and time again ( with links and all) that the alliance will not do it.
Your but some bad people might do something...Alliance has not done that. Even they hate the horde a lot ( some of them). They would not do that. We are not the horde who have destroyed ( if this would happen) 3 major city's and a shit ton of small settlements.

Since you do not actually understand what proof is, I will post a definition for you.

Proof
evidence or argument establishing or helping to establish a fact or the truth of a statement.

You did not produce any proof that the Alliance would not use the Sunwell, you posted links that you could use to form an opinion, but you have no actual proof.

For the sake of my sanity, stop incorrectly using the term proof.

Velen is part of the alliance. Mentor of anduin. Velen is dreanei , a race hunted and killed by blood elves and orcs... So he has as much reason to hate them. But still he chose to help them. And since the alliance did not stop him in anyway they allowed it. so...

Velen was not there to spread the influence of the Alliance, he was following the directions of a Naaru. In case you missed it the Shattered sun was with Velen, not the Alliance.

he is the military adviser. The person who has trained him the most and the word he trust the most is velen.

That would be something you have to prove. He wasn't looking for Velen or his approval in the 7.3 cinematic, Velen wasn't even anywhere to be seen.

I am not. And i am only so jumbled because you keep jumping from hoop to hoop. Bringing up other things like sylvanas etc. And you keep shouting where is your proof. And i supply it. Yet i have not seen 1 link from you proving anything you say.

Today I learned that I jumbled when all I have been doing is going through each one of your points and trying to teach you the difference between opinion and proof.

You have supplied no proof, I don't know how many times that can be repeated to you before it sinks in. Your "Proof" Isn't proof, its an opinion you're getting from sometimes drawing upon similar events, but that isn't proof, its a guess at best.

We where not. We ended that conversation earlier. But again if you started to quote sooner then it would have been easier for us not to get in this mess.
But lets respond to you. They would be able to....man if we only had a great source of power like the blood of a living titan seeping out of the ground...and the remains or a naruu...wait we have both.

It is not my fault you are unable to keep track of the own points you're trying to make.

And now you're trying to say the Alliance would harvest the Azurite to turn on the Sunwell again? Aren't you the one claiming that the Alliance would never do that?

And we already know that harvesting vast amounts of energy threatens worlds. I'm curious, what Naruu are you talking about? The one in the Sunwell would be gone if got destroyed.

I have proven it. By linking you time and time again. I have linked other WMD and Great power sources they did not abuse.
And would the trust them. And yes it is there most holy site. If they think they can retake the city. And it can not be used by the alliance as weapon. They they will leave it. And if the alliance ( witch they can) restart it. Destroying it would not even help then.

Once again, not proof, and not even a real comparison because the Sunwell can be used for more than just attacking.

You show your complete lack of understanding of story, characters, scenarios and over all basic argumentative skills when you keep restating this broken, illogical rant of "proof."

The blood elves do not trust the Alliance, they do not respect them. This is obvious for anyone who has kept themselves up to date on the game. To say they would trust the Alliance is simply untrue with nothing to base on.

If they think they can retake the city, then they think they could think they could try to restart the well themselves, even if they couldn't it would be better than letting it fall into enemy hands.

You cannot prove that the Alliance would not use, nor could you even prove that the Blood elves would trust them even if the Alliance didn't plan to.

The Alliance couldn't restart it without harming Azeroth, your entire point makes no fucking sense.

Yes. Strong huh. Quote's make it easy to read. I tried it several times for you and Aeula..but you did not use them.

No amount of quoting makes your "Argument" easy to read, you need to be trying much harder, and not with quotes.

Grammar wise you are talking about the last faction/person you talked about when you use they...Lets say 1 BE, the 2 times alliance...
So ...

Inability to understand the sentence, is your fault. Anyone else would know I was talking about the blood elves destroying the Well before, I assume you knew they did as well?

Yes i know. But i repeat this again so you can understand ( man you are rude and like to talk down to people do you not...does not proof your points btw).
Those factions both where there to ABUSE the sunwell. I have for the 1001 times said/proven/theorized that the alliance will not do it. They have not done it before. They are the reason why its still online.

Continued misuse of the word proof, drop if from your posts all together, you need to stop your murder of words.

The blood elves would not allow an enemy to take their well from them. They already do not trust the Alliance. Only someone with no grasp of how blood elves think or act would seriously suggest that they would simply leave the Sunwell behind for potential abuse, abuse that could come from the Alliance, because for the hundredth time. You did not prove anything in regards to the Alliance, and it's potential uses they would have for the Sunwell.

The Alliance is not the reason the Sunwell is back, that would be the combined forces of the Shattered sun, Horde and Alliance, Keal'thas reignited the Sunwell just as much as Velen did.

Nope. It you saying i did not link and read my stuff. Witch i did. It was about alliance destroying the sunwell. Witch they did not.

Congratulations, you disproved a point I never made!!!!

It does. Not to keep it for ever. But not to abuse it.

Again, not proof, your idea. Learn the difference.

I have proven my point time and time again. You have yet to do so. You say the alliance would abuse it. Proof it!!! proof means show me proof they abuse WMD or great power sources like that. Proof it!!!

You have repeatedly butchered the word proof in your desperation to be right, that is all you have done for the last several paragraphs. You can't even read my points.

You are the one claiming that the Alliance would not abuse the Sunwell, you have failed to produce any proof. The blood elves mistrust the Alliance, they do not respect them, these are both true, we have seen it time and time again, most recently with Lor'themar cutting off Alleria's offer and insulting Anduin.

The grand magister of Quel'thalas has a voice line about how the Sunwell must be protected. It is their most sacred sight, and they would not allow it to fall into enemy hands, the moral blow alone would be terrible. It is competently inline with Sin'dorei pride that they would once again destroy the Sunwell in the face of the enemy rather than let the enemy claim it. To further elaborate on it, this enemy force of theirs in this theoretical situation just absorbed a force of traitors who all are dangers to the Sunwell, that is a risk of corruption compounded on top of a risk of capture. To say that the blood elves would not sabotage the well before capture is to outright admit that you have never bothered paying any attention to how blood elves act and think.

Maybe I'll be surprised, but I fully expect all I'll be doing when you respond once again is trying to help you realize the difference between your opinion and typing "I proved it." When you obviously haven't.

[SolSphere]

I doubt they would destroy the well to keep it out of the hands of others. They need it. In BC they were scrambling to find a way to not succumb to their addiction to the well. They started draining the energy from other things. This is why we have a split in the Elves High and Blood. The current high elves did not want to follow the teaching that Rommath brought back form Kael, so they skipped out of town.

The High elves still need the well, and they are closer to Alliance than anything. The void elves I dare say the void elves may still be in need of it. I'm not entirely sure on that one though. They were able to sustain themselves b draining magical energies from creatures, so maybe they can sustain themselves with the void energies they are now stuck channeling.

I am no fan of the Alliance, but I seriously don't think they would mess with that well. The Alliance seems to honor bound to me. They want to protect their lands, even fight to get some back. But to flat out but an entire race into dire straights I do not see happening.

At the VERY least I would hope that Velen would be able to argue against it. We already know Anduin is going to be leading the charge against the void at some point, due to a vision of Velen's. Do they really want to potentially destroy a huge fighting force. Not just defeat, but eradicate?

But I said before though I so believe that if a fight came to Silvermoon, the only elves that would not defend it are the purple ones who like blowing up the world. Void, High, Shal, Blood would all want to defend the well. It sustains them all.

P.S. Leave my elves alone, sheesh

The except to that last statement is possible the void elves. They may not need to well to sustain them anymore, but the whole reason for their taking on the void was to protect their people and land. They joined the Alliance for Alleria's teachings of control over the void after their screw up. Fight the Horde? Sure, the blood elves aren't exactly in the horde due to so amazing loyalt. they were practically black mailed into the Horde, and then they were about to leave and Hellscream was clever enough to put a stop to that. Yeah I can se the void elves fighting the Horde as a whole, but a battle directly against their kin, brothers, sisters, husbands and wives, nah.

[Friendlyimmolation]

I doubt they would destroy the well to keep it out of the hands of others. They need it. In BC they were scrambling to find a way to not succumb to their addiction to the well. They started draining the energy from other things. This is why we have a split in the Elves High and Blood. The current high elves did not want to follow the teaching that Rommath brought back form Kael, so they skipped out of town.

The High elves still need the well, and they are closer to Alliance than anything. The void elves I dare say the void elves may still be in need of it. I'm not entirely sure on that one though. They were able to sustain themselves b draining magical energies from creatures, so maybe they can sustain themselves with the void energies they are now stuck channeling.

I am no fan of the Alliance, but I seriously don't think they would mess with that well. The Alliance seems to honor bound to me. They want to protect their lands, even fight to get some back. But to flat out but an entire race into dire straights I do not see happening.

At the VERY least I would hope that Velen would be able to argue against it. We already know Anduin is going to be leading the charge against the void at some point, due to a vision of Velen's. Do they really want to potentially destroy a huge fighting force. Not just defeat, but eradicate?

But I said before though I so believe that if a fight came to Silvermoon, the only elves that would not defend it are the purple ones who like blowing up the world. Void, High, Shal, Blood would all want to defend the well. It sustains them all.

P.S. Leave my elves alone, sheesh

The except to that last statement is possible the void elves. They may not need to well to sustain them anymore, but the whole reason for their taking on the void was to protect their people and land. They joined the Alliance for Alleria's teachings of control over the void after their screw up. Fight the Horde? Sure, the blood elves aren't exactly in the horde due to so amazing loyalt. they were practically black mailed into the Horde, and then they were about to leave and Hellscream was clever enough to put a stop to that. Yeah I can se the void elves fighting the Horde as a whole, but a battle directly against their kin, brothers, sisters, husbands and wives, nah.

The elves destroyed their well before rather than let it fall into enemy hands. What makes you think they wouldn’t do it again? The blood elves have allies now that completely cure their arcane addiction, the only elves who would be punished are the high elves and frankly the blood elves won’t be losing any sleep over the torment of their wayward traitor kin.

It’s not even an if the Alliance would destroy it, it’s an if the blood elves would ever let their well be controlled by enemies. The answer is assuredly no.