Battle For Azeroth: Mage Megathread (Alpha/Beta)

[davesignal]

Comet Storm isn't going to be a spell for Arcane and Fire.

Comet Storm was already in the hotfix passive for Fire and Arcane, it didn't get added to it.

[Swizzle]

Comet Storm isn't going to be a spell for Arcane and Fire.

Comet Storm was already in the hotfix passive for Fire and Arcane, it didn't get added to it.

Yup, re-read it. They removed it in red and added it back in green. Somewhat redundant, but that was my mistake.

[Obelisk Kai]

So far, Fire is shaping up to be really, really good. The addition of two of our best legendaries as talents, and the removal of Cinderstorm, point to a very positive future for what I believe to be our most popular spec.

However, Flame On is still worrying. Three charges of fire blast on an eight second recharge helped the spec feel smooth and fun, especially when combined with Phoenix's Flames.

I know they've reduced the cooldown on PF to a 30 second recharge, but the problem remains. The choice between PF and FO is not hard, it is impossible. Both are excellent abilities that in Legion have been mandatory for Fire to feel fun.

I still feel that for the 'feel' of the spec, Flame On should be baseline and our damage balanced around that.

[Charge me Doctor]

So far, Fire is shaping up to be really, really good. The addition of two of our best legendaries as talents, and the removal of Cinderstorm, point to a very positive future for what I believe to be our most popular spec.

You want to say that "fire is shaping up to be the very same as it is in legion"? Because that's how i look at it, and i don't like it. If fire will remain like this i'll probably reroll main for the very first time since vanilla

[Obelisk Kai]

You want to say that "fire is shaping up to be the very same as it is in legion"? Because that's how i look at it, and i don't like it. If fire will remain like this i'll probably reroll main for the very first time since vanilla

Legion was the moment they deconstructed the class and all it's specs for the first time really since Classic and rebuilt them from the ground up.

Every other expansion, they had simply iterated on what had gone wrong with the class in the previous expansion and course corrected. These course corrections were the source of the constant changes every class saw with every expansion.

In Legion, the vast majority of the specs turned out the way they wanted them. From now on, I expect there to be a lot less class changes each expansion. The specs they didn't like, such as retribution or survival, are seeing the most changes. Those are the outliers, the Legion experiments that failed.

From the looks of it, Fire's direction is set. I have one gripe remaining with the spec, having even made my peace with rune of power in recent weeks as I accept that it will not be removed. That gripe, the choice between Flame On and Phoenix Flames, I hope Mages will see a resolution of that issue.

But I cannot see anything drastic happening to Fire at this point. All I have seen so far (the PF/FO thing aside) is an abundance of good design moves.

I am likely to return to Fire from Frost in the next expansion with these updates.

[Charge me Doctor]

Legion was the moment they deconstructed the class and all it's specs for the first time really since Classic and rebuilt them from the ground up.

Every other expansion, they had simply iterated on what had gone wrong with the class in the previous expansion and course corrected. These course corrections were the source of the constant changes every class saw with every expansion.

In Legion, the vast majority of the specs turned out the way they wanted them. From now on, I expect there to be a lot less class changes each expansion. The specs they didn't like, such as retribution or survival, are seeing the most changes. Those are the outliers, the Legion experiments that failed.

From the looks of it, Fire's direction is set. I have one gripe remaining with the spec, having even made my peace with rune of power in recent weeks as I accept that it will not be removed. That gripe, the choice between Flame On and Phoenix Flames, I hope Mages will see a resolution of that issue.

But I cannot see anything drastic happening to Fire at this point. All I have seen so far (the PF/FO thing aside) is an abundance of good design moves.

I am likely to return to Fire from Frost in the next expansion with these updates.

I understand why it's happening, but i personally already getting bored from that (but again, in BfA it's promised that a lot of classes will lose their AoE damage, so in contrast it'll still be very rewarding to play fire for me), return of legendary items in form of talents just tells me (like to any other fire mage here i guess) "well that's two mandatory talents to pick if i want to go anywhere", so i'll end up with playing exactly same spec for another year.

I want to see cinderstorm 2.0, honestly, i really like this spell, and it's sad to me to see it being removed (not like i really used it over meteor because of how it works with combustion window (read: it doesn't work) and cooldown windows are that important), just throw in something new to fiddle and have fun with (not a dick reference) before i switch back to mandatory talents to be able to not drag my group behind with 1 mil dps

[Dimmak]

Can anyone confirm if the fire mage heal when they blink is gone?
This ability was something I leaned on while leveling/WQ/even when raiding and PVP

[Swizzle]

Can anyone confirm if the fire mage heal when they blink is gone?
This ability was something I leaned on while leveling/WQ/even when raiding and PVP

Cauterizing Blink is gone in so much that it no longer heals just grants you Blazing Shield/Barrier or whatever. With Blink being on the GCD and not castable while moving, Shimmer will still offer more bang for your buck in that tier.

[gallamann]

I don't see why any of you want that legendary bracer proc as a talent. It's a damn proc on top of what we all agree is a proc heavy class.

Now I could get on board if they changed it from proc based into a charge based talent with appropriate cool down.

Otherwise we are in for the same routine, can't buff the damage because when the stars align you are OP as shit, can't nuke the damage because then better off just casting two fireballs.

Bottom line, the ONLY reason anyone uses bracers currently is because w/o them you have ZERO chance to compete on ST encounters.

As to Frost, I don't think Blizzard has settled on what they are moving from Artifact into Talent system.

[Swizzle]

For Frost, Black Ice, Ice Nine, Chain Reaction, Frozen Veins, Icy Hand, It's Cold Outside, and Freezing Rain need to be baked into the spec somehow to keep it functioning. Knowing Blizzard, we'd get two back as talents and placed on the same row. Imagine having to choose between Chain Reaction and It's Cold Outside.

In any case, I was all for the ability prune when it was first announced since many classes DID have pointless abilities. Mana Shield AND Ice Barrier? Amplify AND Dampen Magic? Not needed. But losing Frostfire Bolt, Remove Lesser Curse, Deep Freeze, and the biggest loss in Alter Time...they all kinda stung. Now each expansion continues to prune things and it seems they want each spec to only have 2-3 core buttons and 1-2 cooldowns, and that's not really my bag, baby.

[antelope591]

So I've been playing some alpha and messing around with fire and frost mostly. My initial impressions:

Fire - Looks promising. Definitely the spec that's in best shape at this point. I like the fact that they took some good parts of Legion and baked them into the spec, however the implementation needs some help. Phoenix Flames will always be taken obviously and its on the same tier as flame on. Bracer proc will always be taken and its on the same tier as kindling. You see the issue. Basically every single tier in the talent tree has something I'd like to see changed. But overall off to a good start.

Frost - Completely shit atm to be honest. It was already a boring spec in Legion and now its literally a 3 button spec. Interaction between FO and Blizzard is gone, so pretty useless in any kind of AOE scenario too. Ebonbolt was boring but at least it gave you something else to press. Definitely needs a serious re-work. Fire is just 100x more fun to play and the thought of having to play frost in this state simply because it might give better numbers in an ST scenario makes me nauseated.

[noimawizard]

So I've been playing some alpha and messing around with fire and frost mostly. My initial impressions:
Frost - Completely shit atm to be honest. It was already a boring spec in Legion and now its literally a 3 button spec. Interaction between FO and Blizzard is gone, so pretty useless in any kind of AOE scenario too. Ebonbolt was boring but at least it gave you something else to press. Definitely needs a serious re-work. Fire is just 100x more fun to play and the thought of having to play frost in this state simply because it might give better numbers in an ST scenario makes me nauseated.

Speak for yourself. If frost's talents were actually useful it would be a very interesting spec with way more buttons than fire. Ray of frost/Frost Bomb/Glacial Spike/Comet storm are all talents with potential if they were buffed correctly. Bringing our pet back for the water jet/shatter nova would bring another button for our rotation. Frost has potential; it just needs to make it's talents worthwhile.

I also think this was one of the worst iterations of fire spec I've ever played. Enjoyed the old combustion much more.

[antelope591]

Speak for yourself. If frost's talents were actually useful it would be a very interesting spec with way more buttons than fire. Ray of frost/Frost Bomb/Glacial Spike/Comet storm are all talents with potential if they were buffed correctly. Bringing our pet back for the water jet/shatter nova would bring another button for our rotation. Frost has potential; it just needs to make it's talents worthwhile.

I also think this was one of the worst iterations of fire spec I've ever played. Enjoyed the old combustion much more.

I love the idea of a ray of frost spec becoming viable...I don't know if I have faith in blizz to balance a spell that was useless for a whole expansion but we can hope. Never been a fan of the water elemental personally, always found it to be one of the more clumsier pets.

[kheath812]

I love the idea of a ray of frost spec becoming viable...I don't know if I have faith in blizz to balance a spell that was useless for a whole expansion but we can hope. Never been a fan of the water elemental personally, always found it to be one of the more clumsier pets.

sounds awful. why would i want to stand still channeling a 10 second long spell where if i have to move for a mechanic i do zero damage..

[Ambereldus]

If you can pair it with major cooldowns and RoP, it has the potential to deal insane damage in a very short period of time. It was actually part of the meta build during the first tier of Legion. Plus, it looks like the latest beta notes mention it going down to a 6 sec channel, and competing with the T100 talents. To me, it makes sense putting them (and GS) on the same tier since they each alter our single target damage profile.

Have long periods to tunnel the boss? TV.
Need to burst a target quickly? Ray.
Need higher sustained damage outside cooldowns? GS.

Granted, it'll be a balancing act to keep them all reasonably close, but time will tell how well they end up being balanced. The potential is there, Blizz just needs to make it happen.

[Juther]

The "new" Frozen Touch makes Brain Freeze 45% proc chance and Finger of Frost 35% proc chance?
Or it is "just" multiplicative like the present talent?

Freezing Rain makes your next Blizzard istant or all the Blizzards ( i would say 2 cast ) ?

[noimawizard]

sounds awful. why would i want to stand still channeling a 10 second long spell where if i have to move for a mechanic i do zero damage..

It's called skill cap. Knowing when you can pop ray and not is for better mages who make better decisions.

[Swizzle]

The "new" Frozen Touch makes Brain Freeze 45% proc chance and Finger of Frost 35% proc chance?
Or it is "just" multiplicative like the present talent?

Freezing Rain makes your next Blizzard istant or all the Blizzards ( i would say 2 cast ) ?

If it's anything like the other % chance to proc increase talents, it's a flat added bonus, not multiplicative.

It looks like everything I thought Frost needed from it's artifact is being given back as talents. Don't know how I feel about that one. Also, if the bracers proc has a max of two charges, it either has to have a decent proc rate (as in much better than the RNG bitch fest it is now) or they expect you to pool it up for max burst.

I do like the Azerite power giving each main nuke a nice little niche bonus though.

[Juther]

If it's anything like the other % chance to proc increase talents, it's a flat added bonus, not multiplicative.

The current version is moltiplicative, ex 15% proc chance +40% of the talent = 21% proc chance

So i was asking to clarify that

[Swizzle]

The current version is moltiplicative, ex 15% proc chance +40% of the talent = 21% proc chance

So i was asking to clarify that

Sorry, meant the other talents in alpha. After watching some videos about Hunters, they have a 30% chance to proc something and they have a talent that increases it by 20% putting the proc chance at 50%.