Saurfang Dialogue

[Bildsturmer]

The Alliance tried to kill of the Orcs especially long before the Forsaken joined the Horde. The Alliance also attack Djungle Trolls like the Dark Spear Tribe without a second thought. The Alliance screwed most members of the current Horde over one or more times, except the Tauren and Goblins maybe.

So getting the Forsaken into the Horde to get a strong foothold in the eastern kingdoms, while the Alliance already had a strong foothold in Kalimdor with Night Elves and Theramore was very, very sound decision making. Without the Forsaken, the Alliance could have dominated the Eastern Kingdoms way sooner, while the Horde would have no real option to oppose them. Meanwhile the Alliance could have waged war on Kalimdor with very a more secure Eastern Kingdoms under their control.

What good is a "foothold" that consists insincere allies who only view you as useful pawns and consistently screw you over? Only a fool as great as Thrall would think allowing the antithesis of the new Horde membership would benefit him in his effort to redeem the Horde. "Oh boy, we finally broke free of the Burning Legion! Better buddy up with the clearly sinister Banshee Queen and her Undead minions!"

Without the Forsaken in the Horde, the Blood Elves wouldn't have become members too.

Literally nothing could be better.

[Techno-Druid]

What good is a "foothold" that consists insincere allies who only view you as useful pawns and consistently screw you over? Only a fool as great as Thrall would think allowing the antithesis of the new Horde membership would benefit him in his effort to redeem the Horde. "Oh boy, we finally broke free of the Burning Legion! Better buddy up with the clearly sinister Banshee Queen and her Undead minions!"

Really the Forsaken joining the Horde was at least partially the doing of the tauren. After the Third War, the Forsaken sent emissaries to various nations to secure alliances, but only the tauren made contact. I think it was Hamuul Runetotem that believed that the Forsaken could be turned back into living beings and thought Sylvanas was a threat if left unchecked. I think Magatha also played a part in it.

[Hyral]

Gallywix is great, he's a perfect newer Gazlowe.

If she dies WE HAVE NO MORE CLASSIC HORDE LEADERS LEFT.

Because Sylvanas is the only character in the Horde that is actually interesting? All the other leaders are bland and boring.

Oh my... what happened to the horde? Did all the vets quit? I miss Wrath/Cata Garrosh. Hopefully the lich queen gets removed and we can have the honorable and ruthless horde we all deserve and not... this.

Jokes aside, he'll never be warchief because he's probably the one that's most likely to bring peace between the horde and the alliance along with anduin.

This is why I expect him to never become Warchief. Warchief Saurfang and King Anduin have a meeting one day with their advisers and world peace would be the only result. Garrosh is sorely missed right now, killing him off to make a filler expansion was the worst mistake they did.

[Jaransan]

I mentioned the Broken Mirror, here, and said something in the Alpha thread, but this is what I mean:

What if Saurfang is going to try and do a Darkspear Rebellion... but have it FAIL? Have it be a broken mirror of MoP where Honor is the -wrong- choice for the Horde. Where doing the right thing, the thing that's best for the Horde and for Azeroth as a whole is to do something others would consider dishonorable.

By being a Broken Mirror of Pandaria, the Devs could mirror the events but swap the characterization. Sylvanas comes to power and everyone assumes Garrosh 2.0, the Saurfang Revolution rises up but is thoroughly quelled rather than leading the Alliance into Orgrimmar. Sylvanas's actions, while questionable at the time, prove to be vital to the war effort. Rather than Sylvanas being the real villain, one of the "Honorable" people who oppose her is the true enemy, as their "Honorable" actions push the world closer to destruction.

... would be kind of sweet! Would preserve Sylvanas for the polarizing element of the game's design, would put the Alliance on the defensive within the story (Even weakened if they have to raid one of their own Leaders as the Horde did, before!), and could really shake up the faction war while allowing Sylvanas to become a lighter shade of Grey if, in a reverse ending of Siege of Orgrimmar, she refuses to destroy Stormwind and the Alliance "Because that was never my goal."

To be fair, even if the destruction of stormwind (re:the only major human settlement left besides kultiras since the fall of gilneas) isn't explicitly her goal, her stated goal of 'just wanting the forsaken to be left alone' and her other obvious goal of 'finding a way for the forsaken to reproduce/continue as a species' pretty inevitably lead to that anyway.

Gotta remember that basically all established lore, and alot of the older stuff (the stuff thats more or less true until blizz chooses to contradict it in game you know the deal) is really, really clear about the fact that being forsaken is a curse. They're pretty much incapable of pleasant sensation except in the most violent extremes, and many of them are driven to violence simply as a means to sate their lack of sensation. The older lore (which may or may not be valid any more I admit) indicates that Undead that use the light (priests) too often end up getting their sense of touch and taste and stuff back - but they frequently just kill themselves at that point because they are now capable of tasting and smelling their own rot.

Basically, if left to their own devices, the undead are all either going to kill themselves or become Wrath 2.0, and nothing about Sylvanas wanting to be able to make more of them even vaguely makes that better. More importantly, in order for the undead to 'procreate' they basically have to murder somebody, who is, more often than not, human.

So, much as it probably sucks, Sylvanas would absofuckinglutely kill every living being in Stormwind if presented with an easy opportunity to do so. Because before she ever gave a fuck about leading the horde her goal was 'make more god damn Forsaken'

[FelPlague]

yeah nothin says loyal members of the horde like plottin against their warchief

so... the only true americans take everything trump says without even the slightest wish for him to be taken out of office?
ok then

[mickybrighteyes]

Can't see this being MoP 2.0. Just because there's infighting, or even a civil war it doesn't mean a repeat of that storyline. That's a really basic level of story telling to call something a repeat. BFA could see a civil war, but rather than "sane Horde vs Orc Hitler" it might end up being a true clash of ideals. On the one hand Sylvanas is shady as hell, but is outwardly embracing empire to pursue safety and peace. Saurfang could disagree and the Horde arc could be hashing that out.That is not a repeat of MoP.

Wrath, cata, and mop all have storylines involving horde infighting... 2 of which actually lead into seige events within a capitol city. This idea should probably be better explored somewhere else than as a half assed attempt to turn the revolving door that has become the warchief.

[Phuongvi]

It's offcial now, Warcraft lore turned into shit

[FriendOrTraitor]

Blizzard can't handle grey/pragmatic characters.

Wait, isn't Saurfang being a grey/pragmatic character by sticking to his ideals?

[Ramz]

I think people are way over dramatic about this subject. I don't think Saurfang would ever leave the Horde, and for a reminder - belf leader was in negotiation with Varian to move entire belf population to Alliance. And we know it didn't happen. I'm gonna wait patiently for the entire story to be revealed and then judge it.

[Khirok]

I mentioned the Broken Mirror, here, and said something in the Alpha thread, but this is what I mean:

What if Saurfang is going to try and do a Darkspear Rebellion... but have it FAIL? Have it be a broken mirror of MoP where Honor is the -wrong- choice for the Horde. Where doing the right thing, the thing that's best for the Horde and for Azeroth as a whole is to do something others would consider dishonorable.

By being a Broken Mirror of Pandaria, the Devs could mirror the events but swap the characterization. Sylvanas comes to power and everyone assumes Garrosh 2.0, the Saurfang Revolution rises up but is thoroughly quelled rather than leading the Alliance into Orgrimmar. Sylvanas's actions, while questionable at the time, prove to be vital to the war effort. Rather than Sylvanas being the real villain, one of the "Honorable" people who oppose her is the true enemy, as their "Honorable" actions push the world closer to destruction.

... would be kind of sweet! Would preserve Sylvanas for the polarizing element of the game's design, would put the Alliance on the defensive within the story (Even weakened if they have to raid one of their own Leaders as the Horde did, before!), and could really shake up the faction war while allowing Sylvanas to become a lighter shade of Grey if, in a reverse ending of Siege of Orgrimmar, she refuses to destroy Stormwind and the Alliance "Because that was never my goal."

The moment horde players are forced to kill Saurfang is when the Horde dies.

[Leodric]

It just looks like it was a huge mistake from Blizzards part to make Sylvanas the new Warchief. The plot seems to end up being shit, no matter how you look at it.

[Marmot]

Wait, isn't Saurfang being a grey/pragmatic character by sticking to his ideals?

He could just like, you know, confront Sylvanas and make his concerns heard. She'd be foolish to disregard such a highly respected Orc. Of course given Blizzard are planting the seeds to turn her into a villain it probably doesn't matter either way.

[Deleted]

He could just like, you know, confront Sylvanas and make his concerns heard. She'd be foolish to disregard such a highly respected Orc. Of course given Blizzard are planting the seeds to turn her into a villain it probably doesn't matter either way.

Well, he does and she tells him to bugger off. So.. he does.

[Venziir]

My theory is, that he goes to AU Draenor and rallies the AU orcs, possibly alongside Thrall.

[orgonutil]

i feel sad, i dont want to lose Saurfang

[Scyth]

As a horde player I'm really sick of this sort of subplot, can we go one expansion without some sort of Warchief turnover? Assuming that is where this is going of course.

As am I. It's getting rather dull, not to mention frustrating.

[FelPlague]

He could just like, you know, confront Sylvanas and make his concerns heard. She'd be foolish to disregard such a highly respected Orc. Of course given Blizzard are planting the seeds to turn her into a villain it probably doesn't matter either way.

he did
she laughed at him

[Marmot]

he did
she laughed at him

Ah I haven't really been keeping up with all this stuff tbf. Not really liking the direction this is going then.

[Nerevar]

Oh my... what happened to the horde? Did all the vets quit? I miss Wrath/Cata Garrosh. Hopefully the lich queen gets removed and we can have the honorable and ruthless horde we all deserve and not... this.



This is why I expect him to never become Warchief. Warchief Saurfang and King Anduin have a meeting one day with their advisers and world peace would be the only result. Garrosh is sorely missed right now, killing him off to make a filler expansion was the worst mistake they did.

You write Garrosh and honourable together. Lol.

[Skirdus]

Reused plot aside, I'm glad they remembered who Saurfang was as a character. I'll follow him wherever he goes if it means a brighter future for the Horde.