[SPOILERS]: Saurfang Stockades Dialogue

[Deleted]

But she insults him after he wants to pointlessly sacrifice himself and probably others. Those two points don't go well with each other.

That's what makes Saurfang's character weak. Sylvanas saved him and others and insults him for wanting to die pointlessly. How it goes from there to "Her Horde is not my Horde" and abandoning HIS Horde at the same time?

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At this point I really wish Saurfang change sides and joined Alliance. Horde players call him many bad thing for being who he is. You don't deserve having such cool dude as Saurfang.

Someone that abandons his decades' old comrades over an insult? That's a "cool dude"?

[RangerDaz]

My opinion is that Warcraft needs a "Cercei" character, a strong and ruthless female leader with very few empathy, just like Sylvanas.
I think it is good for "chess board game", which is how wow characters position themselves.

Having said that, it is also good for the story that Sylvanas doesn't get completely demonized.
In her point of view, for her survival and for the survival of the ones below her, she must truly believe her actions are justified.
Just like the demon hunters say they have sacrificed everything for a goal, so probably has she.

Her goal, her methods, her inner conflicts should be shown to the public so we can try to understand why she is doing what she does. and maybe we might even agree with some of her tough decisions... or not. We probably would do things another way, but that is how she functions and thinks. Bringing consistency to her character and to her actions will only give her strength, credibility and make people understand why Blizzard chose her to lead the Horde, and not make her a new "Garrosh".

If Blizzard goes on the route of making her pure evil, this will destroy her character and make her uninteresting, just the way Garrosh ended (he started with very promissing plot stories and conflicts and ended like a "Fuhrer"), another final raid boss.

[Dudas]

6. also possibly what happens to the world tree, idk but burning down the world tree is not really honorable, and well i dont think he would like that ALOT OF INNOCENT CIVILIANS would be sure to die in the fire so...

I doubt Saurfang and Baine would be backing Sylvanas if she did indeed burn that city intentionally. They opposed Garrosh's manabomb. So I doubt they would still follow her and help her defend Undercity if she did the same.

[FelPlague]

I doubt Saurfang and Baine would be backing Sylvanas if she did indeed burn that city intentionally. They opposed Garrosh's manabomb. So I doubt they would still follow her and help her defend Undercity if she did the same.

ehh who knows
1. we do know the horde attacks it
2. we do know they are there when it burns
3. we do know it burns
4. it could have happeend by mistake, but we will see what happens, why i put it last and said "possibly" cause we arnt suree yet.

[Deleted]

Huh, seems like Blizzard is not going to destroy Saurfang's character after all. Nice.

[FelPlague]

Because you mistake perfect sense for no sense whatsoever. All because you want Alliance Orcs. Probably just to spite Horde players no less.

the one time im going to respond to you.
i dont want orcs on horde
lol perfect sense for no sense whatsoever?
Saurfang hates everything about the current horde and its leader, the alliance is a better place for him.
we allready have it confirmed orcs are not going alliance though so again no point, it will most likely just be him, maybe a small amount of orcs will follow but not enough to be a race.

[Deleted]

The Horde is a dictatorship where Warchief has the absolute rule and sets the direction for it, originally created to destroy the enemies of the Orcs.

That was the original Horde. And it was the enemies of the Demons, not orcs.

About the absolute rule thingy, that is correct at least until leaders of the other clans "races" decide otherwise.

[Mehrunes]

Seems like even now, people are ignoring the fact. Maybe someone needs to spell it out.

THESE DATAMINES ARE ALL RED HERRINGS, SO THE REAL STORY REMAINS HIDDEN

Maybe someone needs to spell it out? What do you mean? Adoxe already spelled it out. Your first post in this thread was criticizing the story and you changed tune only after reading that. Hell, you even made a post consisting only of your acknowledgment of what Adoxe said.

And here's the kicker: you're the one ignoring the fact that what Adoxe said isn't automatically gospel. Qualia already corrected them on that and pointed out that all Blizzard said was that things in beta are subject to changes. That's a far cry from "things on beta are incorrect red herrings put in there to misdirect and confuse the players".

[Deleted]

That was the original Horde. And it was the enemies of the Demons, not orcs.

About the absolute rule thingy, that is correct at least until leaders of the other clans "races" decide otherwise.

What? No, what Mehrunes said is 100% correct. The Horde is a dictatorship, even Thrall himself applied absolute power.

[Mehrunes]

My opinion is that Warcraft needs a "Cercei" character, a strong and ruthless female leader with very few empathy, just like Sylvanas.
I think it is good for "chess board game", which is how wow characters position themselves.

Well, reading the other quotes from this wowhead page, Jaina could receive a walk of shame. Getting closer and closer to her.

[Dudas]

At this point I really wish Saurfang change sides and joined Alliance. Horde players call him many bad thing for being who he is. You don't deserve having such cool dude as Saurfang.

You can have the suicidal dude at this point. And I hope I get the quest to go in and bring his head by the order of the next orc leader, as a fellow orc. If he trully abandons the Horde and the orcs for the sake of his honor and just ragequits like a typical lvl 5 orc I am glad he is gone. Leaders should be more than that. Leaders should understand what you gain and what you lose when giving an order. If he doesn't want to/can't comprehend that concept I'm glad he is gone. All the other horde leaders from Baine to Lor'themar know trully what loss for their people is.

His son charged against Arthas in a 1v1 as if he would've ever won, just like daddy told him to... The only reason he was respected was because he had the courage to do it, but it was clear he would die from the second he charged. Meanwhile if Sylvanas would order orcs to charge and die she would be that "bitch that doesn't care about other races".

[Trassk]

Because you mistake perfect sense for no sense whatsoever. All because you want Alliance Orcs. Probably just to spite Horde players no less.

pretty much.

[Jester Joe]

I'll say this again, Saurfang completely ignored Garrosh. Now he decides that honor is more important than surviving a siege?

Saurfang was there during the Siege of Orgrimmar, he clears out the Klaxxi chambers for the Horde players, I thought?

If you're talking about in terms of ignoring Garrosh before that, well, everyone did, except the Alliance of course.

[Jack Black]

Someone that abandons his decades' old comrades over an insult? That's a "cool dude"?

Her insults its only argument you have? Because Saurfang meant not just insults as reason why he don't want to follow her lead.

[Deleted]

Saurfang was there during the Siege of Orgrimmar, he clears out the Klaxxi chambers for the Horde players, I thought?

If you're talking about in terms of ignoring Garrosh before that, well, everyone did.

Minus Cairne and Vol'jin. Which is the point, bad retale of MoP.

[Mehrunes]

the one time im going to respond to you.
i dont want orcs on horde
lol perfect sense for no sense whatsoever?
Saurfang hates everything about the current horde and its leader, the alliance is a better place for him.
we allready have it confirmed orcs are not going alliance though so again no point, it will most likely just be him, maybe a small amount of orcs will follow but not enough to be a race.

Wow, thank you for the honor So you were just talking nonsense when you made a post after post about how Mag'har should be Alliance's allied race (including in this thread), got it. And Saurfang hating Sylvanas' Horde doesn't mean he hates Horde in general. Horde is his life. Orcs are his people. Him abandoning all of that just because he doesn't like Sylvanas is not in character for him. Him joining the Alliance, his long time enemy he had no problem fighting at all, is even less so. It's not like it's a binary thing. Even if Sylvanas' Horde is a bad place for him doesn't make Alliance a better one. They could be equally bad.

That was the original Horde. And it was the enemies of the Demons, not orcs.

About the absolute rule thingy, that is correct at least until leaders of the other clans "races" decide otherwise.

Yeah, demons totally cared much about Saberon, Gronn and other indigenous races of Draenor that Orcs slaughtered in Chronicle v2 retcon. And modern Horde exists for mutual defense as well. That was the primary reason why Forsaken were accepted, for example (with Alliance being mentioned by name). And the power structure of the Horde does not allow such power to other races, clans, or anyone.

[Deleted]

Her insults its only argument you have? Because Saurfang meant not just insults as reason why he don't want to follow her lead.

It's the only argument Saurfang has. So, what are you talking about?

[Jack Black]

It's the only argument Saurfang has. So, what are you talking about?

Keep playing dumb i'm not gonna bait.

[Jester Joe]

Minus Cairne and Vol'jin. Which is the point, bad retale of MoP.

Vol'jin didn't do anything until he was stabbed in the throat.

Cairne literally stared at the Iron Juggernaut and that was his whole contribution.

I state my point again, everyone completely ignored Garrosh up until the uprising happened. So Saurfang doing nothing until then didn't mean he was "fine" with how Garrosh was, as clearly no one else was fine with it but they went along with him.

One could even argue it's because he never did anything earlier to Garrosh that he feels more of a drive to act out of honor this time around.

Either way, it's a moot point to compare this to Garrosh.

[Deleted]

Keep playing dumb i'm not gonna bait.

Really, what the hell are you talking about? It's all about honor.