Growing out of pro-raiding: Paragon update

[xenophics]

Disclaimer: if you are and old-timer like me and followed Paragon when the guild still played, you’ll most likely enjoy this post the most.

Paragon quit raiding exactly 749 days ago, and during the years we had many players participating in the world first race.

I’ve personally cared a lot about my old (and new) guild mates, and I’ve tried to stay in touch even after I quit hc raiding. I regularly think about the people I had the chance to play with, and wonder how they are doing. And at the same time I have been wondering “what happens to hc World of Warcraft players, when they grow up.”

These thoughts prompted me to get in contact with my old Paragon guild mates and ask what they are doing nowadays. Kids, eSports careers in Overwatch, working in the IT industry, studies, and gaming: it makes me truly happy to see people are doing great even if they have outgrown progress raiding. And perhaps not even outgrown, but moved on in their lives to new challenges. I want to believe, that at least some of the reason as to why they are doing so well, is related to the skillset required to be able to play this game at high level.

If you are interested (like me) in knowing what has happened to some of Paragon’s players two years later, feel free to head over and check out my post about the topic: http://www.paragon.fi/node/1123.html

But most importantly, I’d also like to ask: have you ever scaled down your WoW hours? Do you have experiences of moving to new challenges after (hc) raiding? Has World of Warcraft experiences helped you on your career? I’m super curious to know, because I believe this game is not just something you play for a while, but something that can really affect one’s life in a positive way.

[Heeresman]

I miss Paragon.

Thank you for posting this, along with the link.

Probably will never happen that Paragon will come back.

One can dream.

Much respect to all of you.

[klaps_05]

Paragon - the Gold standard of boss kill vids, matched only by old vodka's recruitment videos! Those were the days!

[Grimbold of Skullcrusher]

I used to raid like 5-6 days a week in WoTLK, which I scaled down to 3 days a week in cataclysm, when I started working. Couple of years later I am still raiding 3days and in my opinion thats like ideal schedule for casual raider - with three days you are still able to clear all the mythic content before the next tier is released.

As for the WoW helping me in my career - I think I really picked up some communication skills by being a raid leader and guildmaster for quite some time - you just learn how to deal with different types of people - which definitely helped me when dealing with certain types of people in my job.

[plagueshard801]

But most importantly, I’d also like to ask: have you ever scaled down your WoW hours? Do you have experiences of moving to new challenges after (hc) raiding? Has World of Warcraft experiences helped you on your career? I’m super curious to know, because I believe this game is not just something you play for a while, but something that can really affect one’s life in a positive way.

After being main tank and/or raid leader for years, I moved on to various upper management jobs in big companies, then to starting my own. Yes... I honestly think yelling at people to get out of the fucking fire and organizing boss fights significantly developed my leadership skills. My retail account has something like 485 played days across my significant characters, and I don't believe a second was wasted. All part of the path that got me here.

Man, high-end raiding was great. Life is different now, and even if I could conjure the time I'm just don't think I have it in me anymore. I'll never forget the day we got our Lady Vashj kill... that kind of excitement might give me a heart attack now.

[Shufflez]

Hm, I'm not sure if WoW will affect your real life in a positive way. It probably can. I think a lot of players (who don't have English as their main language) improve their English skills while playing the game, but other than that I don't really see which skills are improved by playing WoW.

I believe people who played/plays hardcore, like the top raiding guilds in WoW, already have a specific mindset when going down that road. Generally, competitive people strive for more (be it IRL or virtual life), meaning they will do almost anything to achieve their goal.

Let's take the IT industry (since you mentioned it). This industry requires a lot of dedication to learn multiple programming languages, but also math skills and most importantly, to think in a logical way. The programming languages are very specific (although many of them are similar), and it takes a lot of free time to become a skilled programmer. The more practice the better. If you had chosen to spend all your time programming instead of raiding in WoW, I'm sure you would be a pretty decent programmer.

This is probably not what you wanted to hear, but it's just my honest opinion. I can't speak for all the hardcore raiders, as I have never raided that hardcore, but I would love to hear their own opinions on this matter. But then again, their opinions will probably be biased, since they've spent a lot of their lives on raiding.

[Kokolums]

These thoughts prompted me to get in contact with my old Paragon guild mates and ask what they are doing nowadays. Kids, eSports careers in Overwatch, working in the IT industry, studies, and gaming: it makes me truly happy to see people are doing great even if they have outgrown progress raiding. And perhaps not even outgrown, but moved on in their lives to new challenges. I want to believe, that at least some of the reason as to why they are doing so well, is related to the skillset required to be able to play this game at high level.

Doing well in life is not about things you own and not your achievements. It is about how you treat people.

See, this is EXACTLY why i say when i build a wow classic guild, i am specifically going to weed out anyone with high raiding achievements. These people are cancer and should be treated as such. You clearly dont value people for being people and are achievement focused. I weed these people out in real life as well.

The BEST thing for the game is to NOT cater to this attitude. You find out someone was in Paragon? You KICK them from the group / guild whatever.

[Unholyground]

As things got more streamlined I have played less. Also growing up into adulthood makes less time for WoW unlike when I started playing WoW I had like 8 hours a day almost every day to play it when I was not getting laid or hanging out with friends.

[Heeresman]

Doing well in life is not about things you own and not your achievements. It is about how you treat people.

See, this is EXACTLY why i say when i build a wow classic guild, i am specifically going to weed out anyone with high raiding achievements. These people are cancer and should be treated as such. You clearly dont value people for being people and are achievement focused. I weed these people out in real life as well.

The BEST thing for the game is to NOT cater to this attitude. You find out someone was in Paragon? You KICK them from the group / guild whatever.

What is this $hit-post?

Go take the right-coloured pills.

[Kokolums]

The people i want in my groups and guild are those people whose fondest memories of wow is helping people and encouraging others to do well. The cancers are achievement oriented and their memories are of playing at a high level. OP is a cancer. You can see it right off the bat.

[Dalheim]

The people i want in my groups and guild are those people whose fondest memories of wow is helping people and encouraging others to do well. The cancers are achievement oriented and their memories are of playing at a high level. OP is a cancer. You can see it right off the bat.

Only one that seem to be a gigantic cancerous turd here is you.

[RoKPaNda]

I very rarely think of my former guildies, or even current guildies. I used to raid just behind the cutting edge, maybe one or two resets behind the first guilds, but at present it's a much more casual 2 days a night but still finish the tier quite quickly. Aside from the handful of people that talk in Discord I don't really think about my guildies much at all. I couldn't even tell you most of their names to be honest.

I don't think Mythic raiding can have a positive impact on your life to be honest. Way too much time investment and it does get in the way of other things.

[Atraxxa]

Well I kinda disagree, the hc raiding scene has actually opened some doors for me personally, I am in my career now because of one of my guild members who I ended up becoming good friends with over the years. Also my newly acquired roommate is someone I have actually known since Burning Crusade who I met through my guild lol.

[Thelxi]

Honestly, wow has done nothing for my career other than eat up time I could have spent on other things. I could literally have gotten an extra degree in place of playing WoW. Now that's something to think about.

It's great to see that it actually has a positive influence on some people's lives, but I would wager it does far more damage than good for most. There is an argument to be made about the social aspect of the game and how perhaps it brings social contact to people that would otherwise be deprived, but this is like going on antidepressants and then proclaiming yourself cured of depression.

[Drusin]

But most importantly, I’d also like to ask: have you ever scaled down your WoW hours?

Nope. I was never a "pro raider" I don't think, my highest point was being in U.S 250. I started playing wow back when I got to MOS school in the military and I probably played for like 6 hours a day. Then when I got to the fleet I had less time on average to play but I always managed to get some wow time in unless there was a field OP and I was away from the barracks for weeks. I've been out since 2012 and I've played no less than 8 hours a day.

[Fappy]

I don't think WoW has particularly improved my life in any tangible sense, but playing at a high level and doing it well is a motivator of sorts. It's nice being able to say "I do this well" because it implies there might be other (more important) things you can excel at as well. That said, it's pretty easy to use in-game achievements as an excuse not to put effort into other aspects of your life, and I find myself struggling with that sometimes. Healthy breaks from WoW/raiding can help with this.

[Queen of Hamsters]

WoW has given me friends, better English skills and most of all, hours and hours of FUN. Something which many people sorely lack in their lives.

However, my ability to focus and take immense interest in things, is a part of me as a person rather than something I trained or built up via games or books or what have you. Whilst WoW hasn't impacted my life in a negative way, far from it, I'll take credit myself for the things I have done and will be doing soon.

The people i want in my groups and guild are those people whose fondest memories of wow is helping people and encouraging others to do well. The cancers are achievement oriented and their memories are of playing at a high level. OP is a cancer. You can see it right off the bat.

What a splendid poster-child you are for the Classic crowd.

Good luck building a nice, friendly guild with the same crowds that flooded forums with their toxicity for years on end, and would spend every free minute in Classic realms bitching loudly about Live WoW via public chat channels.

- - - Updated - - -

Honestly, wow has done nothing for my career other than eat up time I could have spent on other things. I could literally have gotten an extra degree in place of playing WoW. Now that's something to think about.

It's great to see that it actually has a positive influence on some people's lives, but I would wager it does far more damage than good for most. There is an argument to be made about the social aspect of the game and how perhaps it brings social contact to people that would otherwise be deprived, but this is like going on antidepressants and then proclaiming yourself cured of depression.

The fact that you didn't go out and get that "extra degree", is on you.

Your "wager" is probably biased by your own, self-inflicted experiences. Most people play games as a part of their lives, not as substitute for a life.

[Softbottom]

Paragon - the Gold standard of boss kill vids, matched only by old vodka's recruitment videos! Those were the days!

Vodka's recruitment videos... rip

[sil3ntearth]

Up until 4 years ago I played wow a lot. I only got into progression raiding a few times as I mostly enjoyed leveling new characters and the social aspect of it.

I now have a stable career in IT, a new house (moving this weekend), a newer car, 3 dogs, a wife (whom I met during BC in Zangarmarsh), and my pride and joy, my 4 year old daughter. Having a child forced me to grow up fast and changed my perspective on many things. I still VERY casually play WoW and would be lying if every now and then I didn't yearn for the simpler times of worrying about only work and WoW. I love the lore and the characters and will continue to play as a super casual as long as it's around.

I've frequently thought about the correlation between the WoW grind and daily life grind. Funny enough, when I get myself into a situation where I feel overwhelmed I tell myself to just focus on the goal and grind it out as I use to all those years ago. I would say it definitely helped me stay focused on a long term goal.

[Thelxi]

The fact that you didn't go out and get that "extra degree", is on you.

Your "wager" is probably biased by your own, self-inflicted experiences. Most people play games as a part of their lives, not as substitute for a life.

Whew looks like I stepped on a toe here. Lets break it down.

Why do you have wager in quotation marks? It's a perfectly good verb. It's a synonym to "bet".

Why didn't I get a second degree? because there was no time fgor getting my degree, raiding and doing a second degree at the same time. Had I not been raiding I could have done a second degree parallel to my actual degree. I don't see what it is about the concept of time that you is hard for you to comprehend.

Most people play games as part of their lives, not as a substitute. I agree. I don't see where your assumptions are coming from. Your own experience maybe? are you substituting your life with gaming? I would seek some help then dude instead of deflecting on random people on the internet. Good luck.