Master Loot being purged?

[Strifelol]

I see people arguing about "Why do you have bad players in your raid in the first place?", there will always be raiders that aren't as good as other raiders. You will have your top tier raiders heavy hitters that can do a ton of damage and do really well when it comes to mechanics, then you have your middle tier raiders which are your avg players that aren't the best damage dealers but are good ate mechanics, they also don't die to dumb shit often and sit in the middle of the pack, then you have your lower tier raiders that you know will most likely take longer to learn fights or will be more likely to die to mechanics and their damage isn't top tier but that doesn't mean they aren't good enough to be in the raid. Every single guild has those type of players, if you kicked every bad player from your raid, and you recruited better players, those people that are middle tier raiders will most likely now be at the bottom tier raiders making it an endless cycle that you will NEVER fix.

The whole point of ML is to put the correct gear on the best classes/best players/reliable players so you can BEST IMPACT your guilds PROGRESSION. The "worse" players are still going to get loot, it's not like you just can't give them anything or else what would be the point of bringing them in in the first place? BUT you wouldn't want to give them say a trinket that is 985 over someone that you know is by far better mechanically/dps wise or is better for x class over that players class. After progression is over, it doesn't really matter as much. There's a lot of factors that goes into ML than most people think and unless you've been in a successful guild that their main focus is progression or been part of a loot council that helps make those decisions you don't really understand why people are arguing that ML shouldn't be removed at least for Mythic difficulty guild raid groups.

[Lilija]

Yes, pls. That is one less reason for me to get angry at my raid leader Win win situation.

[Strifelol]

Yes, pls. That is one less reason for me to get angry at my raid leader Win win situation.

Are you going to be saying the same thing when you don't get a piece of loot for 3 weeks in a row? Pretty sure your anger will then turn to " This game sucks, I can't get loot and I'm falling more and more behind everyone else and I'm not being brought to raid because my gear is bad and there's no logical reason to bring me".

[Onikaroshi]

Yes, pls. That is one less reason for me to get angry at my raid leader Win win situation.

If you're getting angry at your RL, ML isn't the problem.

[dcc626]

More options and control being taken away from players. At this point, what do you expect?

its almost as if its their game to design. you can stop playing if it isnt fun for you anymore.

[Onikaroshi]

Are you going to be saying the same thing when you don't get a piece of loot for 3 weeks in a row? Pretty sure your anger will then turn to " This game sucks, I can't get loot and I'm falling more and more behind everyone else and I'm not being brought to raid because my gear is bad and there's no logical reason to bring me".

^ i have never gotten a good piece of loot from PL

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its almost as if its their game to design. you can stop playing if it isnt fun for you anymore.

They're also supposed to design a game people want to play, removing a choice for no reason isn't really working towards that.

[dcc626]

I have to ask, why is that guy even invited to a mythic progression raid?

because it fits the point hes trying to make.

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^ i have never gotten a good piece of loot from PL

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They're also supposed to design a game people want to play, removing a choice for no reason isn't really working towards that.

if they feel its better for the game they will do it. whether or not you or i agree is a completely different matter.

[Queen of Hamsters]

... I read it as them simply noting that TIER won't be present in BfA, not that they're doing away with ML...?

[Polarthief]

I wouldn't even use PL if it GUARANTEED every player gets a piece of loot off of every boss. I will never use it until I get to pick the piece I want I will receive from each boss, which will never happen.

If they purged ML, they will purge a lot of hardcore players. It'd just end up putting things on Group Loot and the "ML" collecting it all then trading.

[Seramore]

... I read it as them simply noting that TIER won't be present in BfA, not that they're doing away with ML...?

Personal loot has been the preference for quite a while... and no one said Master Loot is going away. It was shown that Master Loot has primarily been used for Tier gear (which is going away in BFA). c'mon...

pro tip: there's more than one source in the main post. check out the second one instead of basing your responses solely on the wording of the first two sentence source, and then re-read the thread title and take note of the punctuation being used

[Onikaroshi]

... I read it as them simply noting that TIER won't be present in BfA, not that they're doing away with ML...?

It's more paraphrasing than anything, the actual words out of Ion's mouth were closer to "it would be a reasonable assumption that PL would be the only loot method going forward"

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because it fits the point hes trying to make.

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if they feel its better for the game they will do it. whether or not you or i agree is a completely different matter.

I mean sure, if they feel like purging a lot of long term or hardcore players. I know if they go through with it I'll be saving 15 bucks a month.

[Azelas]

the top 1% will find a way to make any loot system work for split raids and the rest of us get fucked while WoW becomes a single player game instead of a fucking MMO. Good job.

[Jujudrood]

If this hypothetical ML removal does happen, they also need to remove the "upgrade" caveat from gear drops so each item can still be freely traded if you so choose (if that's still a thing, anyway... I honestly can't remember).
Do that and it's fine, you just need a raid team who aren't complete shitheads and are willing to trade to help the group as a whole as opposed to hoard all the drops themselves.

The whole ML/roll thing is basically the same thing as the 20% chance of PL.
You must roll 81, essentially, to get a piece of loot (roll 1-100, 81-100 is 20%... maths).
If PL, on average, awards more items, but those items are tailored to the loot spec of the player, you will end up with roughly the same amount of "usable" gear anyway, if not more.
Especially those weird cases where you don't have a mail wearer, for example, and 2 pairs of mail boots drop from a boss because of ML and the whole table is up for grabs...

[Lilija]

Are you going to be saying the same thing when you don't get a piece of loot for 3 weeks in a row? Pretty sure your anger will then turn to " This game sucks, I can't get loot and I'm falling more and more behind everyone else and I'm not being brought to raid because my gear is bad and there's no logical reason to bring me".

I prefer to be angry at a game than at people. The reason is psychological. When it comes to effective gearing the loot system doesn't matter. It's all about perception. I dislike the perception of ML.

[Onikaroshi]

I prefer to be angry at a game than at people. The reason is psychological. When it comes to effective gearing the loot system doesn't matter. It's all about perception. I dislike the perception of ML.

Then don't join groups or guilds that use ML?

[Strifelol]

When it comes to effective gearing the loot system doesn't matter. It's all about perception.

That is actually not true at all. If that was the case, not a single mythic raid group would even bother with master loot.

[Onikaroshi]

That is actually not true at all. If that was the case, not a single mythic raid group would even bother with master loot.

It's not even about effective gearing fully, I don't support PL PURELY based off it being anti-guild and anti-mmo.

[Seramore]

If this hypothetical ML removal does happen, they also need to remove the "upgrade" caveat from gear drops so each item can still be freely traded if you so choose (if that's still a thing, anyway... I honestly can't remember).
Do that and it's fine, you just need a raid team who aren't complete shitheads and are willing to trade to help the group as a whole as opposed to hoard all the drops themselves.

The whole ML/roll thing is basically the same thing as the 20% chance of PL.
You must roll 81, essentially, to get a piece of loot (roll 1-100, 81-100 is 20%... maths).
If PL, on average, awards more items, but those items are tailored to the loot spec of the player, you will end up with roughly the same amount of "usable" gear anyway, if not more.
Especially those weird cases where you don't have a mail wearer, for example, and 2 pairs of mail boots drop from a boss because of ML and the whole table is up for grabs...

The idea of Personal Loot being a primary loot system isn't bad, but the current PL system would need to be adjusted. As you said, if they removed the restriction from trading gear, it would be greatly improved. Guilds can still work out a loot system and have people get loot and if people refuse to trade loot then there's a pretty clear idea on how most guilds would handle situations like that. Maybe they can make it where the trading restriction is lifted for guild groups.

Then don't join groups or guilds that use ML?

Let's not fool ourselves to play devil's advocate, that's a pretty tall request. Hardly any serious guild raids with Personal Loot during progression.

[Onikaroshi]

The idea of Personal Loot being a primary loot system isn't bad, but the current PL system would need to be adjusted. As you said, if they removed the restriction from trading gear, it would be greatly improved. Guilds can still work out a loot system and have people get loot and if people refuse to trade loot then there's a pretty clear idea on how most guilds would handle situations like that. Maybe they can make it where the trading restriction is lifted for guild groups.

Let's not fool ourselves to play devil's advocate, that's a pretty tall request. Hardly any serious guild raids with Personal Loot during progression.

If they're getting mad at ML, they probably don't have the mental fortitude to be in a serious progression guild.

[Gravemind]

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