What did Vol'jin see in Sylvanas, when he chose her to lead the Horde?

[Dr Assbandit]

5$ says Blizz coyly and nonchalantly whistles while sweeping this under the rug.

[bloodmoth13]

I had a theory that bwonsamdi wanted sylvanas to be warchief, knowing that she wanted more valkyr and knowing about the portal to helheim in stormheim, a zone close to the broken shore where the legion was invading.

His goal was to allow sylvanas, unshackled as warchief, to usurp hella in the shadow lands, allowing him to fill the vacuum of power left in her wake (underworld politics!)

We kill hella in stormheim and now there is a power vacuum in the shadow lands.

With voljins death, he is also in the shadow lands, bwonsamdi starts doing questionable things with his new power (tie in to blood trolls?), and voljin confronts him and deposes him, then takes his mantle as the loa of death.

This would explain voljins reasoning to make sylvanas warchief (which would have otherwise been very much against his interests), continues voljins story, and gives voljin the throne he was destined to have, only with a bitter twist (king of the underworld instead of king of the echo isles)

[Priestiality]

Vol'jin didn't see anything, the Loa did

The spirits have granted me clarity, a vision...

It would seem you're wrong.

[bloodmoth13]

Vol'jin saw sea of salt and thousands of alliance whine-threads. With faint smile he nodded as he thought: "Yes, this will be my last fuck you to this world".

We got trolled.

*wipes tear from eye*
Loa bless you voljin, the one true troll king

[Schattenlied]

It would seem you're wrong.

Because visions never lie, right? He didn't see anything in her, the Loa did, and then showed Vol'jin what they needed him to see to make the decision they wanted him to make.

[Zulkhan]

Because visions never lie, right?

Those coming from deties? No, they tend to be truthful enough. We have several of these precedents with Elune and the Loa themselves.

He didn't see anything in her, the Loa did, and then showed Vol'jin what they needed him to see to make the decision they wanted him to make.

Such strong facts, supported by waterfalls of evidence.

[MikeBogina]

But Sylvanas' has her Val'kyr raise the dead which means their souls don't go to him.

If Sylvanas had won Eyir, he'd never get a soul again from her battles. If he gets souls at all from non-troll related kills or even souls marked for certain afterlifes.

Unless losing Eyir is part of his plan and now Helya being dead, she has to make a pact with him.

[Kwento]

But Sylvanas' has her Val'kyr raise the dead which means their souls don't go to him.

If Sylvanas had won Eyir, he'd never get a soul again from her battles. If he gets souls at all from non-troll related kills or even souls marked for certain afterlifes.

Unless losing Eyir is part of his plan and now Helya being dead, she has to make a pact with him.

We don’t know what exactly is Bwonsamdi’s criteria for picking souls either. He seems to be interested in a certain kind of people and all kinds of trolls. Perhaps he wants nothing to do with anyone Sylvanas’s Val’kyr raised?

[tristannarutofan]

he didnt, the loa showed him that the HOrde would succeed with Sylvannas as warchief as she killed and destroyed the HOrdes enemies.

Of course that Loa was bwansamdi, god of death, who was happy to trick Vol'jin (as he likes to trick all his followers, ) into putting a crazy monster in power so she'd sew death and destruction across azeroth...since he's literally the god of death, neglecting to let vol'jin see that the bodies of the hordes enemies, that sylvannas stood on, were the Alliance, not the legion.

we'll see if i'm right

- - - Updated - - -

like there is literally a quest where bwansamdi promised a mother taht if she killed her child she'd be immortal, then got that child to break that contract. thus getting him both souls.

and he only saved vol'jin's life because Vol'jin promised to kill people for him

dude is evil and so is "Keep ppl in cages and test bio weapons on them"-Mcgee

[Schattenlied]

Those coming from deties? No, they tend to be truthful enough. We have several of these precedents with Elune and the Loa themselves.



Such strong facts, supported by waterfalls of evidence.

He says, as if there is even a shred of evidence to the contrary.

I refuse to believe someone like Vol'jin, who is actually good and honorable, would put a nutbar like Sylvanas in charge unless he was deceived.

[Al Gorefiend]

Because he's a troll and was in serious pain.

All the signs point to he was probably higher than a goddamn satellite

[Zulkhan]

He says, as if there is even a shred of evidence to the contrary.

I already exposed my 10 little facts already, without making any "strong" claim in particular. In other words, the burden of proof is on you. I'm merely discussing all the info and hints we have from a possibly informed standpoint.

I refuse to believe someone like Vol'jin, who is actually good and honorable, would put a nutbar like Sylvanas in charge unless he was deceived

Well you'll have to forgive me but I prefer actual lore discussion on the matter rather than the usual "Sylvanas makes me angry, why she's even alive still".

[Schattenlied]

I already exposed my 10 little facts already, without making any "strong" claim in particular. In other words, the burden of proof is on you. I'm merely discussing all the info and hints we have from a possibly informed standpoint.



Well you'll have to forgive me but I prefer actual lore discussion on the matter rather than the usual "Sylvanas makes me angry, why she's even alive still".

Actual lore discussion... You mean how the spirits gave Vol'jin a vision, those spirits being the Loa... And the Loa Vol'jin communes with the most, and has the strongest connection to, the one that gives him his abilities, is the Loa of Death Bwonsamdi, who we know, from lore, to be a monumental asshole and selfish prick? That lore?

[KrakHed]

Actual lore discussion... You mean how the spirits gave Vol'jin a vision, those spirits being the Loa... And the Loa Vol'jin communes with the most, and has the strongest connection to, the one that gives him his abilities, is the Loa of Death Bwonsamdi, who we know, from lore, to be a monumental asshole and selfish prick? That lore?

While Bwonsamdi is selfish, he's also very reasonable. If he chose Sylvanas, it's likely not for entirely unreasonable reasons. Sure, he can collects souls through her. But it also gives him a chance to reign in a faction of the Undead that are seeking to expand their influence, one that has already begun to seek out Death Gods for their patronage, and perhaps get them in a contract on his terms before any less savory Death God gets to them first.

[Schattenlied]

While Bwonsamdi is selfish, he's also very reasonable. If he chose Sylvanas, it's likely not for entirely unreasonable reasons. Sure, he can collects souls through her. But it also gives him a chance to reign in a faction of the Undead that are seeking to expand their influence, one that has already begun to seek out Death Gods for their patronage, and perhaps get them in a contract on his terms before any less savory Death God gets to them first.

Which he is also doing entirely for his own personal gain... To ensure he gets whatever power there is to be had from those undead instead of one of his competitors.

[KrakHed]

Which he is also doing entirely for his own personal gain... To ensure he gets whatever power there is to be had from those undead instead of one of his competitors.

Yes, but his competitors might be a good deal nastier than he is.

[Mehrunes]

Because visions never lie, right? He didn't see anything in her, the Loa did, and then showed Vol'jin what they needed him to see to make the decision they wanted him to make.

They could show him a sea of lies. That doesn't change they showed him the vision, i.e. he saw it, not just the Loa. Which proves your initial point wrong.

[MikeBogina]

So according to the Wiki, Bwonsamdi thinks the Undead are abominations and in his temple views them as "unbearable taint".

[Mehrunes]

I refuse to believe someone like Vol'jin, who is actually good and honorable, would put a nutbar like Sylvanas in charge unless he was deceived.

Why? He had no qualms to threaten the Alliance with her in order to secure their cooperation against Garrosh. He just said she saved the Horde and as such was worthy of respect in his eyes. She's an esteemed military leader. Sylvanas only hurts the Alliance and other enemies of the Horde. And Vol'jin cared so much about the Alliance that he wanted Garrosh to have the Divine Bell rather than the Alliance just after Garrosh tried to have him assassinated.

[Schattenlied]

They could show him a sea of lies. That doesn't change they showed him the vision, i.e. he saw it, not just the Loa. Which proves your initial point wrong.

It means he saw the vision, he didn't "see anything in Sylvanas", which is what the thread title specifies... If the vision was false, he saw nothing in Sylvanas because what he saw isn't really her.