Ivy Bridge to Coffee Lake

[SLSAMG]

If you forget to take two seconds to change the AVX offset, yeah. Not that this matters for 99.9% of the people considering buying an 8400, as anyone who needs to seriously leverage AVX workloads aren't looking to save cash on budget CPUs. Theyre looking at i7s and i9s.



They do. Some of them call it something else. Intel's official term is MCE (Multi-Core-Enhancement) but ASUS calls it "all core optimization", for instance. May be called something different, but they all have it, and have for a few generations now.



Thankfully there are tons of sites out there with benchmarks where you could educate yourself.



As we just covered.. no it isnt. Coffee Lake has only tiny marginal improvements over Skylake and Kaby Lake (which were identical) - small enough in some cases to be within the margin of error and in most cases less than 5%.

Skylake/KL were only about ~10% faster, clock-for-clock, than Ivy Bridge. So Coffee Lake, absolutely best case scenario, is 15% faster, and in most cases, more like 10%.



Because it has more cores. Dur. But multicore performance isn't exactly critical to game performance past about 3 cores, and no one who needs serious multi-core horsepower is considering an 8400.

- - - Updated - - -



Right, but we're talking the difference in clock speeds giving you the boost. Not the architecture itself, which is just not that much faster. Which i said, earlier.



Myth. It takes a SERIOUS mismatch in parts to even begin to truly bottleneck. (There are instances where your hardware will "bottleneck" somewhere, of course, but in 99% of those cases, going to newer hardware wouldnt clear this bottleneck up - like WoW's dependence on CPU, for instance. Even the fastest liquid cooled OC'ed CPUs still bottleneck the GPU and always will). Jayz2Cents did a great video on this a while back. He had to go back to like... Quad Core AMD parts from 8 years ago and modern GPU to get bottlenecking.


You could stream before. Quicksync is a thing.

1) You really are a pretentious little turd, aren't you? The architecture itself is in fact an improvement (this is why we're able to easily hit 5ghz). It's +25% faster in single threaded tasks for crying out loud! These chips allow us to push beyond the 5ghz threshold and that alone makes it the superior alternative. Get out of that stubborn bubble/mindset of yours, lmao.... And when it comes to video encoding? This is where those extra cores/threads count, and that's what I paid the premium for. It's night and day.... The 8700k blows my old 4690k out of the water.

Facts don't care about your "feelings" on this matter.


2) Not a myth. Depends on the game + your hardware obviously, and what resolution you're running. Higher resolutions you'll be GPU bottle-necked, and lower resolutions you'll be CPU bottle-necked. Lower resolutions stress the CPU so the GPU isn't the limiting factor - but I'm pretty sure you already knew this. It's common knowledge at this point.


3) Nope. Not happening whilst gaming on 4 cores 4 threads. Especially not whilst playing demanding titles like PUBG and BF1. There's a big difference in QoL when using something superior for the task. Honestly, you're not even worth responding to at this point. Take that condescending tone elsewhere.

[pansertjald]

those links are specificly about vega and navi... we alrdy know what there is to know about those 2.

Yes and that is all that is coming. Theres is nothing about a refresh polaris any where for 2018.

[Deleted]

If you forget to take two seconds to change the AVX offset, yeah. Not that this matters for 99.9% of the people considering buying an 8400, as anyone who needs to seriously leverage AVX workloads aren't looking to save cash on budget CPUs. Theyre looking at i7s and i9s.



They do. Some of them call it something else. Intel's official term is MCE (Multi-Core-Enhancement) but ASUS calls it "all core optimization", for instance. May be called something different, but they all have it, and have for a few generations now.



Thankfully there are tons of sites out there with benchmarks where you could educate yourself.



As we just covered.. no it isnt. Coffee Lake has only tiny marginal improvements over Skylake and Kaby Lake (which were identical) - small enough in some cases to be within the margin of error and in most cases less than 5%.

Skylake/KL were only about ~10% faster, clock-for-clock, than Ivy Bridge. So Coffee Lake, absolutely best case scenario, is 15% faster, and in most cases, more like 10%.



Because it has more cores. Dur. But multicore performance isn't exactly critical to game performance past about 3 cores, and no one who needs serious multi-core horsepower is considering an 8400.

youre not helping anyone. youre not even talking about the same thing as me. realworld sc performance on coffee lake is easily upwards of 40% better than ivy bridge... it might not have 40% higher ipc, which i specificly said i dont know anything about, but theres more to performance than just ipc. youre obviously fond of educating yourself, so go do it. oh yea and also, you cant just change the avx offset and expect the system to remain stable. and even if games dont have "heavy avx workloads" youre still gonna experience framerate drops whenever the cpu clocks down to under 3ghz, even if its just for a second, and thats gonna be annoying.
please dont qoute me again if youre gonna twist my words and start talking about something completely different.

[Illuman]

You guys are also forgetting, the i3 8350k/z370 is a great gaming combo too. It is also hitting high overclocks, and should not be overlooked as a great option.

[Steelfox]

Just wanted to update everyone who replied, I decided to go with the 8600k, any suggestions on a motherboard and ram would be appreciated, willing to spend up to $250 on a motherboard although would consider more if it's worth it, preferably in CAD

[Evildeffy]

Just wanted to update everyone who replied, I decided to go with the 8600k, any suggestions on a motherboard and ram would be appreciated, willing to spend up to $250 on a motherboard although would consider more if it's worth it, preferably in CAD

There's little to no difference in performance for these points, pick any you want which doesn't suck and has a good VRM.

If you want to be price conscious I'd say pick the ASRock Z370 Extreme4, at it's price level it's one of the best.
If you want to pick the best in your allotted budget you either go for the GigaByte Aorus Z370 Gaming 7 or the ASUS Maximus X Hero (potentially the WiFi version)

If you want "BALLS-TO-THE-WALL" stuff then ASUS Maximus X Code (air cooling) or ASUS Maximus X Formula (water cooling) would do you just fine.
There's also the ASUS Maximus X Apex which is a board built for overclocks... it's good but in your case I think any of the above are better.

When it comes to performance ... All of these (provided there are no BIOS bugs) are within margin of error of each other so difference is little and down to preference.

As far as RAM goes you can pick whichever suits your needs ... but having said that I have seen Siemens' NX CAD actually scale a bit with memory speeds, unsure of how the rest is.
I know AutoDesk's AutoCAD is absolutely garbage at utilizing multiple CPU threads so having good RAM may actually work there ... but unsure whether that's actually the case or not.

If you have the budget for it though I would go for any of the following G.Skill kits which are to your liking and capacity:
http://gskill.com/en/finder?cat=31&s...prop_3=3200MHz

Whether you want RGB or not etc. is up to you from these choices, they (MOSTLY) all use the same DDR chips inside (Samsung B-die) so they will always keep their value in a resale and will work in any of the aforementioned motherboards by simply enabling X.M.P. in the BIOS.

[Steelfox]

There's little to no difference in performance for these points, pick any you want which doesn't suck and has a good VRM.

If you want to be price conscious I'd say pick the ASRock Z370 Extreme4, at it's price level it's one of the best.
If you want to pick the best in your allotted budget you either go for the GigaByte Aorus Z370 Gaming 7 or the ASUS Maximus X Hero (potentially the WiFi version)

If you want "BALLS-TO-THE-WALL" stuff then ASUS Maximus X Code (air cooling) or ASUS Maximus X Formula (water cooling) would do you just fine.
There's also the ASUS Maximus X Apex which is a board built for overclocks... it's good but in your case I think any of the above are better.

When it comes to performance ... All of these (provided there are no BIOS bugs) are within margin of error of each other so difference is little and down to preference.

As far as RAM goes you can pick whichever suits your needs ... but having said that I have seen Siemens' NX CAD actually scale a bit with memory speeds, unsure of how the rest is.
I know AutoDesk's AutoCAD is absolutely garbage at utilizing multiple CPU threads so having good RAM may actually work there ... but unsure whether that's actually the case or not.

If you have the budget for it though I would go for any of the following G.Skill kits which are to your liking and capacity:
http://gskill.com/en/finder?cat=31&s...prop_3=3200MHz

Whether you want RGB or not etc. is up to you from these choices, they (MOSTLY) all use the same DDR chips inside (Samsung B-die) so they will always keep their value in a resale and will work in any of the aforementioned motherboards by simply enabling X.M.P. in the BIOS.

I have the asrock z77 pro3 currently with my ivybridge and 1 of the PCI-E slots burned out a few months ago so I'm a bit wary of going with asrock again, not sure how common that is, also I have 16 gigs of the gskill ddr3 ram and I havn't had a problem with them so ill probably end up going with them again. I was looking at the gigabyte board you linked and I'm quite curious about the quality of their onboard sound card, the ESS SABRE DAC. Currently using the generic realtek audio and I hadn't considered that these new boards are coming with their own sound cards.

[Evildeffy]

I have the asrock z77 pro3 currently with my ivybridge and 1 of the PCI-E slots burned out a few months ago so I'm a bit wary of going with asrock again, not sure how common that is, also I have 16 gigs of the gskill ddr3 ram and I havn't had a problem with them so ill probably end up going with them again. I was looking at the gigabyte board you linked and I'm quite curious about the quality of their onboard sound card, the ESS SABRE DAC. Currently using the generic realtek audio and I hadn't considered that these new boards are coming with their own sound cards.

To be fair... ASRock in the past wasn't the highest quality of brands.
Z77 is included in that statement ... however a PCIe slot burnout is generally not an issue and more of an exception than anything on most brands.

Having said all that... I have no qualms in recommending the ASRock Z370 Extreme4 board, for a mid-ranger it is very good.

The G.Skill RAM ... well there's nothing wrong with that, in fact with DDR4 they were the first to use Samsung B-Die chips which are considered the best ones, they built a name for themselves with it and to be fair they have good looking strips.
So if you go for them that's fine, I provided the link in the best of their series in the post you quoted, pick and use.

As far as audio quality on the GigaByte board... I have no idea.
I have heard the Sabre DAC on competing boards is far better than people think it is just because it's a stigma of built-in solutions and even though I have a board myself with the Sabre DAC (ASUS Maximus X Code) I haven't actually built my PC yet because I'm forcing myself to get a job first.

That said there is 1 thing you need to watch out for in the GigaByte Aorus Z370 Gaming 7 board... and that's to see if the VRM heatsinks are properly tightened.
There's probably someone at the assembly line who isn't tightening the heatsink down properly.
All you need to do is grab a screw driver and see if you can tighten it down at the back of the motherboard... that's it.

Barring that it SHOULD be a good board for you.

[Steelfox]

To be fair... ASRock in the past wasn't the highest quality of brands.
Z77 is included in that statement ... however a PCIe slot burnout is generally not an issue and more of an exception than anything on most brands.

Having said all that... I have no qualms in recommending the ASRock Z370 Extreme4 board, for a mid-ranger it is very good.

The G.Skill RAM ... well there's nothing wrong with that, in fact with DDR4 they were the first to use Samsung B-Die chips which are considered the best ones, they built a name for themselves with it and to be fair they have good looking strips.
So if you go for them that's fine, I provided the link in the best of their series in the post you quoted, pick and use.

As far as audio quality on the GigaByte board... I have no idea.
I have heard the Sabre DAC on competing boards is far better than people think it is just because it's a stigma of built-in solutions and even though I have a board myself with the Sabre DAC (ASUS Maximus X Code) I haven't actually built my PC yet because I'm forcing myself to get a job first.

That said there is 1 thing you need to watch out for in the GigaByte Aorus Z370 Gaming 7 board... and that's to see if the VRM heatsinks are properly tightened.
There's probably someone at the assembly line who isn't tightening the heatsink down properly.
All you need to do is grab a screw driver and see if you can tighten it down at the back of the motherboard... that's it.

Barring that it SHOULD be a good board for you.

I grabbed the 8600k so when I get paid next friday ill have about 600 CAD to spend on a motherboard/ram/cpu cooler, leaning towards the extreme4 but both the gigabyte and the asrock board are around the same price so I guess it comes down to preference. I've been looking at the noctua dh-15 for a cooler but im open to suggestions on that.

[Banthare]

Waiting a few months for an extra 5-15 fps ain't really worth. Go for it.

[Evildeffy]

I grabbed the 8600k so when I get paid next friday ill have about 600 CAD to spend on a motherboard/ram/cpu cooler, leaning towards the extreme4 but both the gigabyte and the asrock board are around the same price so I guess it comes down to preference. I've been looking at the noctua dh-15 for a cooler but im open to suggestions on that.

Hold on a sec... GigaByte AORUS Z370 Gaming 7 same price as the ASRock Z370 Extreme4? If that's the case there's something wrong with pricing.

Air cooling: Cryorig R1 Ultimate - Noctua NH-D15 - Be Quiet! Dark Rock 3 Pro

Pick any of the above if you want that high-end class air cooling, whichever you like the looks of, they perform in close proximity to each other.
AIO Options are also available, be aware of what you want.

RAM I'd go for the G.Skill previously mentioned.

[Steelfox]

Hold on a sec... GigaByte AORUS Z370 Gaming 7 same price as the ASRock Z370 Extreme4? If that's the case there's something wrong with pricing.

Air cooling: Cryorig R1 Ultimate - Noctua NH-D15 - Be Quiet! Dark Rock 3 Pro

Pick any of the above if you want that high-end class air cooling, whichever you like the looks of, they perform in close proximity to each other.
AIO Options are also available, be aware of what you want.

RAM I'd go for the G.Skill previously mentioned.

the extreme4 is 250 and the gigabyte is 280 so a 30 dollar difference doesn't seem like big deal. I've heard the Be Quiet is a good cooler but a bit tricky to install.

[Evildeffy]

the extreme4 is 250 and the gigabyte is 280 so a 30 dollar difference doesn't seem like big deal. I've heard the Be Quiet is a good cooler but a bit tricky to install.

Your pricing is utterly and totally fucked if the ASRock Z370 Extreme4 is only 30 CAD difference to the GigaByte AORUS Z370 Gaming 7.
For that difference the GigaByte is probably better... I think you should look at other stores really, the ASRock one is supposed to be A LOT cheaper.

Be Quiet! Dark Rock 3 Pro and Cryorig R1 Ultimate are both annoying to install... but once it's done it's done... and they look a LOT better than piss and vomit coloured fans from Noctua.

If you go for the GigaByte AORUS Z370 Gaming 7 .. do make sure to check the VRM thing I mentioned before.

[Fascinate]

Dark rock pro 3 isnt as hard to install as people make it out to be.

Case in point:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gIx0JFEyLuQ&t=272s

The wrench is only needed to attach the brackets to the cooler, its not needed past that (there does not need to be an angle on the wrench because you are installing it wrong if you are using the wrench to tighten the nuts while doing the actual install). You simply hold it up and align it with the screws on the backplate and tighten them down with a screwdriver from the back side.

[Steelfox]

Your pricing is utterly and totally fucked if the ASRock Z370 Extreme4 is only 30 CAD difference to the GigaByte AORUS Z370 Gaming 7.
For that difference the GigaByte is probably better... I think you should look at other stores really, the ASRock one is supposed to be A LOT cheaper.

Be Quiet! Dark Rock 3 Pro and Cryorig R1 Ultimate are both annoying to install... but once it's done it's done... and they look a LOT better than piss and vomit coloured fans from Noctua.

If you go for the GigaByte AORUS Z370 Gaming 7 .. do make sure to check the VRM thing I mentioned before.

so ugh, should I return my 8600k and wait for these new ones? I havn't opened it yet.

http://www.tomshardware.com/news/int...con,36672.html

[Evildeffy]

so ugh, should I return my 8600k and wait for these new ones? I havn't opened it yet.

http://www.tomshardware.com/news/int...con,36672.html

We have no idea when that's going to be, that might be the end of the year.

So you don't need to feel remorse upgrading now... but if you think you have the patience waiting... that's up to you.

[Vertigo X]

Be Quiet! Dark Rock 3 Pro and Cryorig R1 Ultimate are both annoying to install... but once it's done it's done... and they look a LOT better than piss and vomit coloured fans from Noctua.

It's really expensive but if you haven't heard of the chromax swap you should check it out. I understand its paying extra money to not have a cooler that looks like shit but the nh-d15 does still reign supreme afaik and now we have the option to make it look sexy.

[Evildeffy]

It's really expensive but if you haven't heard of the chromax swap you should check it out. I understand its paying extra money to not have a cooler that looks like shit but the nh-d15 does still reign supreme afaik and now we have the option to make it look sexy.

<picture removed for quoting size reduction>

Don't even need the Chromax options to change those looks, the fans alone can be changed to any other brand of fans you want, which is the main gripe.

That said the NH-D15 doesn't "reign supreme" but is equally tied with the Dark Rock 3 Pro and R1 Ultimate in performance and luckily one can pick which he wants.
Thats the beauty of it, options are present, pick what you want .. as long as the case supports it.

The annoying point about the Chromax addons is that whilst it's a good idea it's simply too expensive in relation to the cost of the cooler.

[Kagthul]

Huh, i'd forgottent this thread existed. For some reason i got a notification about it today. Fun times!

1) You really are a pretentious little turd, aren't you? The architecture itself is in fact an improvement (this is why we're able to easily hit 5ghz).

Ummm.. no. Its the -exact- same Architecture as Skylake and Kaby Lake. Exactly the same. What changed was the power delivery in the socket (thats the difference between 1151v1 and v2). And the 8700K doesn't "easily" hit 5.0Ghz; you need a good sample to hit 5.0Ghz at sensible voltages. The 8600K more easily hits 5.0Ghz but even then, its not a guarantee. And you could hit 5.0Ghz on a 7700k just about as easily.

It's +25% faster in single threaded tasks for crying out loud!

wut?

https://www.cpu-monkey.com/en/cpu_be..._single_core-7

Thats an 18% difference... almost entirely due to clock speeds. And that's literally the BEST the 8700K does vs the 4790K.

https://www.cpubenchmark.net/singleThread.html

... 7% difference.

I can go on, but i dont really see the point.

These chips allow us to push beyond the 5ghz threshold and that alone makes it the superior alternative.

Maybe 1 out of 1000 chips will breach 5.0/5.1ghz with a delid and liquid metal, at voltages that wont destroy the IMC. Trying to imply that they're all that good is simply absurd.

Get out of that stubborn bubble/mindset of yours, lmao.... And when it comes to video encoding? This is where those extra cores/threads count, and that's what I paid the premium for. It's night and day.... The 8700k blows my old 4690k out of the water.

This has what to do with anything? I never said that more cores weren't going to matter for heavily multithreaded workloads. Never mentioned it at all. In fact, i mentioned that the only way the 8700K IS in fact superior is in heavily threaded workloads. Stop building strawmen.

Facts don't care about your "feelings" on this matter.

I dont have feelings. I posted facts. And benchmarks. And statistics.

2) Not a myth. Depends on the game + your hardware obviously, and what resolution you're running. Higher resolutions you'll be GPU bottle-necked, and lower resolutions you'll be CPU bottle-necked. Lower resolutions stress the CPU so the GPU isn't the limiting factor - but I'm pretty sure you already knew this. It's common knowledge at this point.


3) Nope. Not happening whilst gaming on 4 cores 4 threads. Especially not whilst playing demanding titles like PUBG and BF1. There's a big difference in QoL when using something superior for the task. Honestly, you're not even worth responding to at this point. Take that condescending tone elsewhere.

Hmm, lets dig up some benchmarks of PUBG (which makes almost no use of multiple threads, being draw call bound by a single-thread issue like an MMO due to secure client-server connectivity) then... (and BF1 is the exception, in modern gaming, being a game that can make good use of more than 8 threads. You can count the number that do on one hand, including Ashes of the Game That No One Really Plays Benchmark)

It's a PITA to post time-stamped Youtube links from my tablet, so youll just have to manually fast forward to the PUGB ones at the end, but.. that's not a 25% difference, meng. Thats 10%. At best.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yPglsTj57sQ

Here's some more games:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1VXpTDOxL1c

And finally, a rather in-depth comparison by Hardware Unboxed:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Oc08ZPc30Zs

Notice how only the games that benefit heavily from extra cores/threads do any better than about 8-10% better? Hmm. Weird. It's almost like there haven't been huge single-core performance gains from Intel in the last few generations.

/sadPriceIsRightSound.