Master Loot being purged?

[Deleted]

The whole process is just made more tedious for full guild groups. Swapping loot specs before every boss to get the big important drops, having to trade everything to the GM/RL, and then finally doing the loot council as usual...

I understand for casual players like yourself that this is a bit of non-issue, but for the majority of guilds doing mythic progression, this is nothing other than a pain in the arse.

I don't understand the constant complaining over this. You choose to raid as you do and you know the requirements to raid at such a level. If you do not enjoy it, then.... don't do it? If you're going to complain about the dedication required then maybe you aren't cut out for it.

[Erolian]

All it takes is Blizzard making personal loot a little bit more "smart" and ML is now pointless for almost everyone in the game. Honestly its probably already not a big deal for the vast majority but the guilds play the min/max game because its what we do in WoW even if its probably toxic in a lot of cases and unneeded for pretty much everyone not in the world first race.

This is one of those awkward cases where there's a line between how the math actually works out and player perception.

[Varitok]

I very highly doubt that they're removing ML. They didn't say they were. They'll very likely just do what they did in the past few expacs and increase the incentive to use PL.

He said its a reasonable expectation that personal loot will be the only loot system in BFA.

- - - Updated - - -

Very good. As a casual player, I see no reason to play with any group where there is master loot. If people want to distribute loot, you can still do it with personal loot. It is tradeable.

You understand literally nothing about why people dislike personal loot then. I don't use ML but I know people who do, no reason to remove that choice in favour of some RNG shit where I can go 5 bosses without a drop.

[Strifelol]

My guild for most part is running with PL and only switched few times for tiers. The problem was when those tier bosses also dropped some trinket or relic that everyone and their mother wants making ML less effective when it came to non tier items. Unnecessary tensions are unnecessary. ML is statistically better only in very specific situations and only for tiers. And since they are going away...

Oh... and split runs. But if aren't doing split runs you might as well not bother with ML for most of the time.

Here's a thought. If Blizzard ever wanted to get rid of split runs - drop ML.

Out of curiosity, what's your mythic progression? This isn't me trying to call you out or anything I'm just curious as to how your performance has been running PL on mythic. DM if you don't want to make that public here, as I said I'm not trying to bash you or be some elitist asshole, I'm actually really trying to see how you guys are doing while using PL over ML and having little control as to who gets upgrades etc.

My guild has been using personal loot all of legion and we raid mythic. We have used master loot three times all expac to target tier specifically for certain people. Any double ups for personal loot go to a loot council and we hand it out based on where it will be the best for the guild. We have 0 loot drama and 0 downtime dishing out loot. With no tier in BfA we won't be using master loot at all. Getting 6-12 pieces of loot per boss on personal is too good to give up.

If you wouldn't mind letting me know your mythic progression, you can DM me as well. As I said I'm not trying to bash you or be some elitist asshole, I'm actually really trying to see how you guys are doing while using PL over ML.

[Nitros14]

Blizzard how are you this stupid?

[turlockmike]

This is a very welcome change. While there are some side effects, such as the worst player in our mythic group getting geared up faster and best players slower, it removes all the option for funneling and will mean people are more incentivized to join. Even those with good gear will come for the change of warforged.

I'm very happy with this change.

[Toybox]

I don't understand the constant complaining over this. You choose to raid as you do and you know the requirements to raid at such a level. If you do not enjoy it, then.... don't do it? If you're going to complain about the dedication required then maybe you aren't cut out for it.

... What?

All I'm saying is this change makes it objectively worse & more time consuming for mythic guilds that choose to run a loot council & will still want to maintain control over who gets what items.

Am I a shit player for not wanting things made more tedious for no benefit to me?

[Kaykay]

... What?

All I'm saying is this change makes it objectively worse & more time consuming for mythic guilds that choose to run a loot council & will still want to maintain control over who gets what items.

Am I a shit player for not wanting things made more tedious for no benefit to me?

Death to loot council's we are the 99%! ;D

[Ningjinq]

It’s too early to say if it’s objectively worse. There’s a lot of variables such as: PL drops more loot than ML for one

Also even though loot may not be able to go to exactly who you want it to, you’ll get more of the loot you want. Right now you have an equal chance to get a tank trinket for your 2 tanks and a caster trinket for your 8 or so casters. With PL the chance you get some caster trinkets is much higher.

Relatedly, now that we are going back to weapons, it prevents the issue of A relatively high chance of getting your 6th bow drop for your single hunter. (Or no hunters). This also applies to agi daggers, warglaives, and mail armor in general.

While people are looking at the worse case scenario of someone getting a duplicate item only 5 ilvls higher and not being able to trade it, is that actually going to happen commonly enough?

There’s definitely a fair amount of advantages to ML but I don’t think it’ll be much difference in practice. Only concern would be trinkets and possibly Azurite gear. (Weapons can only +5 so you can basically just pick up any old weapon)

[Dracodraco]

If you watch the whole thing he actually says they want to move forward with personal loot because it makes it more difficult on guilds that split clear.

Didn't watch anything, just responded to the quote OP posted. If he doesn't convey the message clearly, that's on him.

Either way, solution is just going to be everyone being forced to trade the assigned masterlooter the spoils from a kill and starting BDL/RCLC manually. It's a hassle to do, but it's still far more effective than just letting shit fall where ever it may.

[Zyky]

Didn't watch anything, just responded to the quote OP posted. If he doesn't convey the message clearly, that's on him.

Either way, solution is just going to be everyone being forced to trade the assigned masterlooter the spoils from a kill and starting BDL/RCLC manually. It's a hassle to do, but it's still far more effective than just letting shit fall where ever it may.

He clearly linked the video, so maybe go watch it. This is the problem with people, they just read something instead of looking into details, even if it requires effort of their part, but then make huge opinions wanting to say "no they said this" but then later say "I didn't watch anything". That's on you, not him.

As for the second bit, that won't be entirely possible because you can't trade something that's an IL upgrade for you, which in itself causes a new load of problems.

[Alvito]

Excellent. Death to split raids. Get good and learn how to play. 99% of you clear shit with better gear then you need. This only effects world 10 guilds and welp sucks to be them. Maybe content will now last longer cause they can't gear the fuck out of it. Can't wait for the salt. mmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmm

A tiny % of the raiding community does that and you can still trade PL so that doesn't change as much as you think it does there. This is yet another blow to organized raids more so the mythic raids. Now you have to fight the ease of gearing from lower difficulties via TF/WF gear and the easy route of mythic + dungeons. This is just one more gut shot for raids.

[Tiwack]

All it takes is Blizzard making personal loot a little bit more "smart" and ML is now pointless for almost everyone in the game. Honestly its probably already not a big deal for the vast majority but the guilds play the min/max game because its what we do in WoW even if its probably toxic in a lot of cases and unneeded for pretty much everyone not in the world first race.

This is one of those awkward cases where there's a line between how the math actually works out and player perception.

Yep, I'm just surprised they haven't tried implementing it across the board yet. It's one way to counter top-guilds split runs.

[Alvito]

Didn't watch anything, just responded to the quote OP posted. If he doesn't convey the message clearly, that's on him.

Either way, solution is just going to be everyone being forced to trade the assigned masterlooter the spoils from a kill and starting BDL/RCLC manually. It's a hassle to do, but it's still far more effective than just letting shit fall where ever it may.

You can't trade items that are your highest item level though so plenty of times that wont work or people will scumbag it and act like they can't trade something. Either way moving further and further from ML sucks for almost all organized groups. Sadly this is a carry over knee jerk reaction to people trolling pugs raids loot or as some would put it ninjaing loot. So people playing the right way get punished because of idiots in some shitty normal pug 3 years ago.

[Dracodraco]

He clearly linked the video, so maybe go watch it. This is the problem with people, they just read something instead of looking into details, even if it requires effort of their part, but then make huge opinions wanting to say "no they said this" but then later say "I didn't watch anything". That's on you, not him.

As for the second bit, that won't be entirely possible because you can't trade something that's an IL upgrade for you, which in itself causes a new load of problems.

Hey, maybe instead of trying to be a snarky asshole, you could put two and two together and see that OP editted in the link at 8:39 PM, and I posted my response at 8:01 PM. But next time I'll wait 40 minutes from reading a question till I answer it, just incase it gets updated with more specific information later on, in order to please you. Sound good?

As for the second bit, it works just fine at the moment in our mythic alt raids, but that's partly due to everyone having a level 1000 in every slot due to legendaries. Either way it'll be happening, easy or not - if the item is tradeable, it's being distributed.

[Alvito]

Yep, I'm just surprised they haven't tried implementing it across the board yet. It's one way to counter top-guilds split runs.

Who cares if people do split runs? PL doesn't stop that either. They have said themselves that things like split runs or people running old content hoping for a super TF on tier gear doesn't happen nearly as much as people think. If people want to spend their time that way let them.

[Onikaroshi]

Yep, I'm just surprised they haven't tried implementing it across the board yet. It's one way to counter top-guilds split runs.

Won't counter anything, they'll just split run more and take the luckiest. Splits aren't just about gearing one toon, they're about the need for multiple alts as well. Nothing will kill split runs that won't also kill raiding

[Strifelol]

Yep, I'm just surprised they haven't tried implementing it across the board yet. It's one way to counter top-guilds split runs.

This change wont stop splits entirely. Guilds are going to start requiring 3-5 of the same class so you can chain run raids and then whatever character had the best luck will be your main. Another option would be to stack raids by armor type such as a full leather run or full plate run etc to trade pieces of gear around. It's never going to stop guilds from doing things to give themselves an advantage, if anything it's going to encourage this type of behavior even more. These are just examples obviously and I'm sure top guilds will find even better ways to keep getting ahead of everyone else, gear wise.

[Tiwack]

You can't trade items that are your highest item level though so plenty of times that wont work or people will scumbag it and act like they can't trade something. Either way moving further and further from ML sucks for almost all organized groups. Sadly this is a carry over knee jerk reaction to people trolling pugs raids loot or as some would put it ninjaing loot. So people playing the right way get punished because of idiots in some shitty normal pug 3 years ago.

That's one way to see it. Another way to see it is with this it won't be happening again.

[Erolian]

This change wont stop splits entirely. Guilds are going to start requiring 3-5 of the same class so you can chain run raids and then whatever character had the best luck will be your main. Another option would be to stack raids by armor type such as a full leather run or full plate run etc to trade pieces of gear around. It's never going to stop guilds from doing things to give themselves an advantage, if anything it's going to encourage this type of behavior even more. These are just examples obviously and I'm sure top guilds will find even better ways to keep getting ahead of everyone else, gear wise.

That's true but it raises the barrier for entry to that type of min/maxing to absurd levels excluding pretty much everyone that isn't about to hit top 10 world. So outside of a couple hundred people tops it effectively destroys split runs forever. Since most do one extra split with the intention of funneling tier/trinkets to mains rather than 5-6 runs to stack up a bunch of different classes like top end guilds do.