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  1. #41
    The Patient tkioz's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mister Cheese View Post
    Holy shit then don't play with them? Do I go around saying "screw casuals?" no? Then whats the problem?
    Casuals aren't being toxic shits all over the place.

  2. #42
    Quote Originally Posted by tkioz View Post
    I'm going to say something very unpopular. Screw 'Progression' Guilds.

    No seriously. Screw them. We're talking about 5,000 people world wide that are in what this site calls 'progression' which is people trying for top 100. They are a tiny tiny minority. The game doesn't revolve around them anymore.
    But it doesn't cost anything to keep an option that is already implemented and which doesn't have any impact of every other player.

    Quote Originally Posted by WiggleTillFriday View Post
    Less drama, faster to move on to the next encounter. Only a good thing and I am glad to see this.
    Exactly the same amount of drama and the same time wasted. Because after each boss you will have people whispering each other to know if they need or not, if they can trade or not.
    With the current system, only the MasterLoot wastes time. The other people can continue to play / clear trash

    This removal is a huge problem for progressing guilds. And I don't mean "progressing guilds" only looking at Top 100 world, even a guild progressing on High Command Heroic in 2 months is a progressing guild.
    Loot attribution shall remain (if they want to). They still have the option to switch to Personal Loot if they prefer.

  3. #43
    Legendary! Frolk's Avatar
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    "PL is the preferred loot method" of course its the most used when majority of raiders do normal/HC, ML is only used for mythic progress guilds which are the minority.





    "DPS specs are the preferred classes, cause they are the majority, so were removing tanks and healers"
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  4. #44
    Stood in the Fire Chloral's Avatar
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    PL sucks when you are the only one of your class in the group and have shit luck. Everyone gets tier but you.

  5. #45
    Quote Originally Posted by Rorcanna View Post
    ML should remain an option, end of story.



    ... They're literally making a return back to what gearing USED to be like.

    Hyperbole aside, there's still just as much of a need for stats and secondary stats and loot. If some people derive some sense of accomplishment and "sign of skill" from simming every piece of gear and being told that pieces from 2 tiers ago are better, then tough.
    Not entirely. Historically you could use a tier set/trinket from some odd quest or old expansion to enjoy a huge benefit and this was the result of researching/understanding your class. This is true now of secondaries - stacking your best stats and knowing how your class works to be above the general flock of people.

    Unless there are a lot of gear pieces with added effects like the CoS auto attack ring or the CoS/Arcway dungeon 2set in the next expansion then gear feels like it'll be very boring and linear. Especially if they keep designing trinkets as poorly as this expansion.

  6. #46
    Quote Originally Posted by Chloral View Post
    PL sucks when you are the only one of your class in the group and have shit luck. Everyone gets tier but you.
    do you even know about tier set changes in BFA ?

  7. #47
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    I definitely wouldn't mind if they removed master loot completely, loot council is probably the worst loot method to ever have been created and seeing it gone forever would be pretty great.

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by Chloral View Post
    PL sucks when you are the only one of your class in the group and have shit luck. Everyone gets tier but you.
    There won't be any tier sets in the next expansion, Ion even used it as one of the arguments for why they are considering removing master loot. I'm not sure how so many people have missed something that should be so well known, but even the chat seemed surprised for some reason...

  8. #48
    Quote Originally Posted by Ophenia View Post
    But it doesn't cost anything to keep an option that is already implemented and which doesn't have any impact of every other player.



    Exactly the same amount of drama and the same time wasted. Because after each boss you will have people whispering each other to know if they need or not, if they can trade or not.
    With the current system, only the MasterLoot wastes time. The other people can continue to play / clear trash

    This removal is a huge problem for progressing guilds. And I don't mean "progressing guilds" only looking at Top 100 world, even a guild progressing on High Command Heroic in 2 months is a progressing guild.
    Loot attribution shall remain (if they want to). They still have the option to switch to Personal Loot if they prefer.
    It does cost , as many GM abuses ML to gives loots to his/her friends.Now don't say create ur own guild as many people does want to go through guild creation and maintaining process.Benefit GM and officers gets is that in any mythic kills they are not removed from grp in the name of class stacking for a boss.
    Sure giving loot priority to a certain class/player ,is a plus point , but it matters only in hardcore raiding guild whose size is less than 500.Rest guild attempts on mythic kills when they are over geared and they fail to kill boss due to mechanics understanding or cannot do mechanics properly.If a guild takes 2 months to kill Mythic HC , then it mechancis or player doesn't have good idea about their class .So giving top loot to top players has no point.
    Currently guild i am part of uses PL , it is not like i get 10 whispers after every good loot drop , hardly one or two.

  9. #49
    Quote Originally Posted by Chloral View Post
    PL sucks when you are the only one of your class in the group and have shit luck. Everyone gets tier but you.
    Good thing BFA won't have tier.

    Ontopic: Whatever floats the boat i prefer PL anyway.
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  10. #50
    Warchief Notshauna's Avatar
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    I have no problem with personal loot in casual settings, the benefit of allowing loot drop for a character rather than the party is more than worth it (no competition, no chance of malicious rollers/master looters, more loot overall). That is not the case for organized content, as it makes the bosses feel a lot less impactful, even when you do a boss and they have zero pieces that you need/could use, which happens you still got to look at the items and be part of the spectacle. Even if you weren't a physical DPS watching Deathbringer's Will drop was a special experience. It also felt like the boss actually had loot, even if you didn't get any when often times it feels like there is less loot going around with personal loot (despite it being mathematically more).

  11. #51
    Bloodsail Admiral Mahmeya's Avatar
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    PL is good, apart from the terrible "drop" chances. Two lockouts in ToS (20 bosses!) without a drop, been there.

  12. #52
    You are forgetting majority of your gear for progression will come from M+ farm and not just the raid kills. My guess is they keep Master Loot available only in Mythic raids and PL everything else.

  13. #53
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    Consider this another layer of RNG. Trinket that is awesome for mages drops? It might drop to mage, it might drop to priest who doesn't need it because its stats suck, but can't trade it because its 5 ilevels higher than what he has.

    Blizzard is doing everything to take control from players and put it into RNG. They love RNG.

  14. #54
    I think a very important part of raiding is seeing the piece you want drop and now you have a chance to win it. Just having random stuff appear in your bag isn't super exciting. Trading loot between members of the raid can also be a bit of a pain in the ass with personal loot since it tends to become very disorganized.

    That being said, if they truly wanted to end split running they'd make sure that current tier heroic raid never ever offered upgrades over the last tier mythic raid. If you've cleared one raid on difficulty X the next logical step in your progression should be the next raid, also on difficulty X.

  15. #55
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    Quote Originally Posted by Swalload View Post
    I agree that it takes away an option that doesn't really need to be removed. However, it is true that people used this MOSTLY for tier. Sure there's still trinkets and there will be weapons, the importance of masterloot will be way less than before, still not really a reason to entirely remove it.
    I think it should stay an option for guild runs in mythic, everything else no one should give a shit.
    In legion it was not really anything else to spend it on, besides tier and trinkets. They made it this way.

  16. #56
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    Why are people so salty about this? Tier is gone. WF and TF will be reduced. Where is the problem I can't understand?
    Or the salty people are "friends of the ML person" in their guild and they start to understand they will never get their desired piece of loot unless RNJesus decide so?

    Every guild that disbanded recently stated they are burned out of the game. Why? Because split runs. It was even worse this expansion, because of artifact system.
    Forced PL will kill split run mindset once and for all. You don't believe me? Read post #30 and what WeaszelB wrote - every drop in a new raid instance is, in 99% of the cases, an upgrade and will not be able to be traded. That will happen only if that same person get that same item 2nd time. So this in its essence IS killing split runs for progress, because by the time you can "distribute" loot via trade, you will be too deep into mythic to even care about heroic loot. Same for mythic split runs.
    Yes peopel can still run 5 splits with different alts and the when progression start they pick up best geared alt, but that will average out maybe 2-3 ilvl boost than the Average Joe Guilds.

    Of course Blizzard should do some tuning , but not so much about how the PL system work, but rather how new tier gear is designed. There should be less trinkets that are godroll for spec X and vendor trash for every body else. Weapons wouldn't be a problem - if one person get same weapon 2nd time, he will be able to trade it, unless it forge up. There will be less salty people, because "fking" ML have Weapon X or THE Trinket not to him but to Nooby Mc'Nabface. Or do you remember how many time "The Ogre King" boss droped SAME loot last 3 weeks... IN A ROW? I do and it almost makes me cry when I look how is being disenchanted instead the raid group gets 9 upg

    Forced PL is for the better believe it or not.


    P.S.

    Quote Originally Posted by Nagassh View Post
    Idiotic choice if it goes through.

    To top it off the trading system with personal loot is broken as all hell - I was robbed of an arcanocrystal that I was farming for months back on Mythic Guldan progression because my DH tank looted it and couldn't trade it despite having bags full of trinkets, both tanking and dps ones as well as the legendary trinket because the loot system decided he wasn't allowed - God knows what idiotic metric it was using to rank upgrades but it was wrong as all hell. Even opening a ticket up wouldn't let him trade it. He had a dozen better trinkets but the highly sought after item was left to rot.

    It still can't believe there are people out there that don't know that World Bosses drops is the only exception of the PL system and it can't be traded...

  17. #57
    Quote Originally Posted by Embriel View Post
    I think a very important part of raiding is seeing the piece you want drop and now you have a chance to win it. Just having random stuff appear in your bag isn't super exciting. Trading loot between members of the raid can also be a bit of a pain in the ass with personal loot since it tends to become very disorganized.

    That being said, if they truly wanted to end split running they'd make sure that current tier heroic raid never ever offered upgrades over the last tier mythic raid. If you've cleared one raid on difficulty X the next logical step in your progression should be the next raid, also on difficulty X.
    Doesn't actually make sense. You'd just move the split to clearing the old tier on mythic in the high end guilds to gear everyone's alts to be subbed into mythic of the next tier. They already do this but the point shifts from being about gearing mains to gearing a specific comp depending on how high up the ladder you go

  18. #58
    Deleted
    Quote Originally Posted by tkioz View Post
    Casuals aren't being toxic shits all over the place.
    Its heroic casuals who are the most toxic players. Worst experience is in heroic....

  19. #59
    The Lightbringer Archmage Alodi's Avatar
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    With tier sets and relics going away , i don't even care what they do to loot system anymore.
    THE HORDE WILL ENDURE
    THE HORDE IS STRONG!

  20. #60
    Warchief Notshauna's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Deithy View Post
    Why are people so salty about this? Tier is gone. WF and TF will be reduced. Where is the problem I can't understand?
    Or the salty people are "friends of the ML person" in their guild and they start to understand they will never get their desired piece of loot unless RNJesus decide so?

    Every guild that disbanded recently stated they are burned out of the game. Why? Because split runs. It was even worse this expansion, because of artifact system.
    Forced PL will kill split run mindset once and for all. You don't believe me? Read post #30 and what WeaszelB wrote - every drop in a new raid instance is, in 99% of the cases, an upgrade and will not be able to be traded. That will happen only if that same person get that same item 2nd time. So this in its essence IS killing split runs for progress, because by the time you can "distribute" loot via trade, you will be too deep into mythic to even care about heroic loot. Same for mythic split runs.
    Yes peopel can still run 5 splits with different alts and the when progression start they pick up best geared alt, but that will average out maybe 2-3 ilvl boost than the Average Joe Guilds.

    Of course Blizzard should do some tuning , but not so much about how the PL system work, but rather how new tier gear is designed. There should be less trinkets that are godroll for spec X and vendor trash for every body else. Weapons wouldn't be a problem - if one person get same weapon 2nd time, he will be able to trade it, unless it forge up. There will be less salty people, because "fking" ML have Weapon X or THE Trinket not to him but to Nooby Mc'Nabface. Or do you remember how many time "The Ogre King" boss droped SAME loot last 3 weeks... IN A ROW? I do and it almost makes me cry when I look how is being disenchanted instead the raid group gets 9 upg

    Forced PL is for the better believe it or not.
    There are much better ways to deal with split runs that don't ruining the entire concept of loot in WoW. With the removal of tier sets all the need to do to kill split runs is for the mythic of the previous raid tier to be close to heroic in power level, and for bullshit random item upgrades to be toned down (or outright removed). I get that you want the gear to matter when people first run your new raid but Mythic Tomb of Sargeras gear should not be 15 ilvls lower than HEROIC Antorus gear, that's the same difference between Heroic ToS and Mythic, and there is a HUGE mismatch on difficulty there.

    Way I see it, mythic ToS should be the same ilvl as heroic Antorus, and the value comes from itemization differences, especially in trinkets or tier gear.

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by Turkey One View Post
    Doesn't actually make sense. You'd just move the split to clearing the old tier on mythic in the high end guilds to gear everyone's alts to be subbed into mythic of the next tier. They already do this but the point shifts from being about gearing mains to gearing a specific comp depending on how high up the ladder you go
    That's called putting content on farm, there isn't anything you can do to stop that (you could slow it down but honestly what's the point in that, this is for people who have already mastered the content). The issue is that literally everytime they introduce a new raid they come up with much easier content (to the point where it's instantly on farm) that rewards much better gear than the previous content. Instead of this farm happening after you've beaten the most challenging content in the game it all happens BEFORE the most challenging content in the game. This means if you want to seriously compete in the race you likely want to do as many split runs as possible, which unsurprisingly gets you burnt out.

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