Master Loot being purged?

[Ipsissimus]

thats just an excuse - ML was gearing people too accurately and was causing too much toxicity with the loot systems that guilds were using

its natural that they are going away with it.

it will be good for the game overall in long run

and if some toxic element will unsub because of it - thats just good for the game.

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you are purposely ignoring fact that they will be redesigning stat systems so that situation like this will be very rare. my bet is they will reduce 2ndary stats on gear significantly in next alpha builds (lets say cut value by 5 or 10) so that itlv>eveyrthing not like it was in legion or in past.


they are clearly making deep reworks to gearing .

Accurate gearing is only an issue for the 5-10 guilds that run multiple split raids. That issue can be solved in a myriad of ways that won't affect anyone else. The overgearing of content occurs not because of the split raids that other guilds do, but because of the insane item level inflation from tier to tier coupled with the inbredforging power creep. That too can be easily fixed by simply lowering the gear RNG.

As for purposly ignoring things... The vast majority of the dedicated raiding community doesn't like having their specs revolve around as much RNG as they do in Legion, or not having any real choice between secondary stats, which would 'feed' different flavored styles or emphasis on damage or target type. Taking secondary stats away from gear and further dumbing down and limiting player choice isn't a good thing to most of us (though I didn't take a survey, you can fault me for being anecdotal).

It's not dissimilar to the process which has occurred with tier sets. People have a short memory and only seem to mention the boring Legion tier sets when praising the decision to remove them entirely in BfA, ignoring the years prior where each tier set would bring a new mechanic or interaction to a given spec, keeping the players engaged throught the expansion.

Casually throwing words like "toxic" around is suspect, so I'll just assume you're one of those people who nowadays are happy to have choices taken away from them in the name of some supposed equality.

[Deleted]

... I read it as them simply noting that TIER won't be present in BfA, not that they're doing away with ML...?

I read it in the complete opposite way. I hope i am wrong. They shoulden´t limmit our choice...

[andy123456]

False, giving loot to the top players first helps beat DPS checks during progression. Once we down the boss and put it on farm, everyone else gets their preferred loot as well. Getting the BIS gear you want is only a matter of sooner or later. I much rather have that than wipe endlessly to the boss to satisfy a false sense of fair loot distribution.



Once again, just because you had bad experience with your own guild or PuG doesn't mean "most of the guild" out there do it as well.

Once again, if u had good experience with ML because u were good friend with loot officer or u a GM or has been with 1 guild only , it does not mean ML demerit does not exist.
and given the case that tier set are removed , ML has lost its importance

[Deleted]

Sorry if this has been posted, but will Group Loot remain ingame or is it Personal Loot exclusively come BfA?
(asking for legacy raid transmog runs)

There'll be a new loot system for transmog collectors, so I'm guessing group loot will be removed alongside master loot:

Since the Patch 7.3.5 change to use personal loot rules in leveling dungeons, we’ve heard a lot of feedback from Transmog hunters concerned about how this has affected the ability to collect appearances from older content. We hear you, and agree it’s a problem, so we’ve been working on a more robust solution for Battle for Azeroth.

Once these updates are implemented, entering a dungeon or raid that is trivial for you (i.e.: your character is 10 or more levels higher than the dungeon or raid’s intended level) will activate a “legacy loot mode.” That loot mode will work like this:

The number of items dropped by bosses will be the same as it would have been if you were in a full party. So if you’re in a 5-player dungeon, you’ll get 5 players’ worth of loot.
For raids with a flexible raid size (such as Raid Finder), this will act as though there were 20 players in the raid.
All items on the loot table will have a chance to drop, not just the ones that are designated for your spec.
If you have multiple players in the group, the loot will be split among those players, but be tradeable. For example, if you’re clearing with one other player and kill a boss that should drop 4 items, you’ll each be able to pick up two items and trade them between each other if you like.

While the personal loot change was a key part of what allowed us to expand leveling dungeons to encompass a wider range of levels, and we’re happy with it in that environment, we recognize that it’s not a great experience for those who enjoy clearing older content for transmog, and hope that these changes will make that more enjoyable once they’re complete.

Thanks again for all of the feedback!

https://us.battle.net/forums/en/wow/...1866700?page=1

[Nutri]

There'll be a new loot system for transmog collectors, so I'm guessing group loot will be removed alongside master loot:



https://us.battle.net/forums/en/wow/...1866700?page=1

Awesome, thanks for that!

[Ribesal]

Excellent. Death to split raids. Get good and learn how to play. 99% of you clear shit with better gear then you need. This only effects world 10 guilds and welp sucks to be them. Maybe content will now last longer cause they can't gear the fuck out of it. Can't wait for the salt. mmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmm

Ha.... not sure if this was mentioned here before, but this won't be death to split raids, it will be death to split raids like we know them now. Some guilds most likely will level several characters of the same class and in the end use the character that had the most luck with drops.

[HumbleDuck]

The guy is cancer, Im yet to watch one of his interviews without a face palm.

[Tiwack]

A shitty fix to a non issue for most.

Only because you're aware of the old that is master loot and disregard those who is and will be on the bad side of it's continued existence.

Add to that it's a turn-off for many to get remotely serious about raiding and there's a lot of bad loot council stories out there along with the jungle of different ways to handle dkp. This is why blizz thinks PL will improve the game overall even if it seems foreign in a guild environment. Removing the choice along with the temptation to abuse it will be less stress on the guild management and those on the short-end.
It'll also be less complaints directed at blizz for making a multiplayer game that you can end up feeling robbed and betrayed in. They can adjust RNG and put in failsafes to prevent long periods of bad luck. They can't adjust how guilds distribute loot without changing or moving away from ML entirely. A lot of guild managements feel right prioritizing themselves disproportionately with loot and that's the crux of the problem and creating revolving-door guilds with a single small friend-group only sharing loot that isn't an upgrade to them.

[Toybox]

i started wow with legion, and i really didn't like ML, but i did see benefit of ML due to tier sets.But when tier sets are removed , ML does have any benefit.Unable to trade item level upgrades can be changed by blizz.
Sure giving loot priority to a certain class/player ,is a plus point , but it matters only in hardcore raiding guild whose size is less than 500.Rest guild attempts on mythic kills when they are over geared and they fail to kill boss due to mechanics understanding or cannot do mechanics properly.So giving top loot to top players has no point.
ML system in most of the guild are abused to give loot to close friends of loot officer which i think many people agree.

Not sure that's the case for most guilds as you say, but it definitely does exist. However, those guilds (deservedly) die, and whatever they change, people will always find a way to be scummy about loot (guild kick if you don't trade me that trinket, <insert name here>).

Still think leaving ML as an option for mythic raiding is the way to go if leaving it unchanged entirely is out of the question.

Only because you're aware of the old that is master loot and disregard those who is and will be on the bad side of it's continued existence.

Add to that it's a turn-off for many to get remotely serious about raiding and there's a lot of bad loot council stories out there along with the jungle of different ways to handle dkp. This is why blizz thinks PL will improve the game overall even if it seems foreign in a guild environment. Removing the choice along with the temptation to abuse it will be less stress on the guild management and those on the short-end.
It'll also be less complaints directed at blizz for making a multiplayer game that you can end up feeling robbed and betrayed in. They can adjust RNG and put in failsafes to prevent long periods of bad luck. They can't adjust how guilds distribute loot without changing or moving away from ML entirely. A lot of guild managements feel right prioritizing themselves disproportionately with loot and that's the crux of the problem and creating revolving-door guilds with a single small friend-group only sharing loot that isn't an upgrade to them.

Not for any decent mythic guild. It will be a case of swapping your loot spec to get DPS players loot, trading everything possible to the raid leader, and then master looting it out anyway via a loot council/raid leader decision.

You speak about feeling robbed... How about I get a nice shield to drop, get told to give it to the GM, and then it's master looted to an elemental shaman cuz DPS get prio on gear? I'd feel pretttttty damned robbed if that happened - A lot more so than if the shield were to just drop & was master looted over to that same shaman.

Whatever the case, for a guild like mine where we've complete faith in the raid leader/loot council to allocate loot fairly & for the betterment of the guild/progression as a whole, this change is just a waste of time. It's going to make things harder & more time consuming... Great.

[Magnosh]

Well, I hate the decision and the reasoning behind it feels it comes from someone totally disconnected from the game in a guild progression perspective.

Speaking from my personal experience, we use master loot not just because tier sets but because we want people to have items that benefit them the most, it's useless to give player A a trinket that is 5 item levels higher when its not their BiS trinket while player B will be taking so much more advantage of that trinket because its is BiS.

This has nothing to do with being try hard, this is about being effective.

My guess, is that this is just another to upgrade the grind machine you will have to go through to be properly geared, Blizzard knows that the majority of players will keep their subscriptions up despise the grind anyways.

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less stress on the guild management and those on the short-end.

If they cared about less stress on the guild management they wouldn't have made mythic 20 man or they would have at least deleted half the EU servers and merged the other half into 4 or 5 servers.

[Allenschezar]

Not for any decent mythic guild. It will be a case of swapping your loot spec to get DPS players loot, trading everything possible to the raid leader, and then master looting it out anyway via a loot council/raid leader decision.

Any "decent" mytic guild? Since when is the measurement for "decent" mythic guild how you handle the loot? Sorry but what you describe sounds just like a bunch of idiots who are not capable of trading loot to each other because everyone is fixated on himself therefore they have their raid lead do it.

If you actually have decent people they should at least be able to use their brains.

OT: The biggest problem i see atm is the way the traiding of items is restricted atm. If it stays the way it is it will result in lot's of pontentially good items wasted. If these restrictions where not there it wouldn't make a difference imo. It would be multiple people trading loot to each other instead of one person.

If the restriction to trading stays it sucks heavily.

Will have to wait and see.

[andy123456]

Well, I hate the decision and the reasoning behind it feels it comes from someone totally disconnected from the game in a guild progression perspective.

Speaking from my personal experience, we use master loot not just because tier sets but because we want people to have items that benefit them the most, it's useless to give player A a trinket that is 5 item levels higher when its not their BiS trinket while player B will be taking so much more advantage of that trinket because its is BiS.

This has nothing to do with being try hard, this is about being effective.

My guess, is that this is just another to upgrade the grind machine you will have to go through to be properly geared, Blizzard knows that the majority of players will keep their subscriptions up despise the grind anyways.

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If they cared about less stress on the guild management they wouldn't have made mythic 20 man or they would have at least deleted half the EU servers and merged the other half into 4 or 5 servers.

Guild i am part of uses PL, everyone in the raid got 4 pieces of Tier 21 in 1 month. So i don't think it will be a huge grind process.

[Magnosh]

Guild i am part of uses PL, everyone in the raid got 4 pieces of Tier 21 in 1 month. So i don't think it will be a huge grind process.

Luck is in your favor that's great! I've been pugging with my monk with personal loot, cleared normal 6-7 times and 1-2 times heroic and I wouldn't have 4 set if it wasn't for a LFR tier legs. This has been more or less my experience with personal loot.

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Any "decent" mytic guild? Since when is the measurement for "decent" mythic guild how you handle the loot? Sorry but what you describe sounds just like a bunch of idiots who are not capable of trading loot to each other because everyone is fixated on himself therefore they have their raid lead do it.

If you actually have decent people they should at least be able to use their brains.

OT: The biggest problem i see atm is the way the traiding of items is restricted atm. If it stays the way it is it will result in lot's of pontentially good items wasted. If these restrictions where not there it wouldn't make a difference imo. It would be multiple people trading loot to each other instead of one person.

If the restriction to trading stays it sucks heavily.

Will have to wait and see.

They are probably incapable of trading loot from personal if it drops with higher item level than what they have even if its not an upgrade... idd.

[andy123456]

Luck is in your favor that's great! I've been pugging with my monk with personal loot, cleared normal 6-7 times and 1-2 times heroic and I wouldn't have 4 set if it wasn't for a LFR tier legs. This has been more or less my experience with personal loot.

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They are probably incapable of trading loot from personal if it drops with higher item level than what they have even if its not an upgrade... idd.

As Tier set are removed and if blizz enable "item upgrade drop" to be traded i don't see any need for ML for majority of guild. In all i think PL will make better environment for wow community.

[kamuimac]

Luck is in your favor that's great! I've been pugging with my monk with personal loot, cleared normal 6-7 times and 1-2 times heroic and I wouldn't have 4 set if it wasn't for a LFR tier legs. This has been more or less my experience with personal loot.

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They are probably incapable of trading loot from personal if it drops with higher item level than what they have even if its not an upgrade... idd.

as it is meant to be to slow down the speed of people gearing up

[Deleted]

That would instantly kill any splitruns so im all for it.

[Toybox]

Any "decent" mytic guild? Since when is the measurement for "decent" mythic guild how you handle the loot? Sorry but what you describe sounds just like a bunch of idiots who are not capable of trading loot to each other because everyone is fixated on himself therefore they have their raid lead do it.

If you actually have decent people they should at least be able to use their brains.

OT: The biggest problem i see atm is the way the traiding of items is restricted atm. If it stays the way it is it will result in lot's of pontentially good items wasted. If these restrictions where not there it wouldn't make a difference imo. It would be multiple people trading loot to each other instead of one person.

If the restriction to trading stays it sucks heavily.

Will have to wait and see.

Never said it was the sole measurement of anything, but a well run raiding guild usually has a well run loot council, and I'm fortunate enough to be in such a guild. What you're saying is that we all "use our brains" & take turns asking who in the raid needs 1 of the 4-8~ pieces of loot that has dropped, rather than just throw everything to the raid leader & let the loot council decide quickly through an add-on.

Either way, it's more cumbersome than before.

That would instantly kill any splitruns so im all for it.

No chance. Might change the minds of some people, but split runs will 100% still go on through this.

[Deleted]

No chance. Might change the minds of some people, but split runs will 100% still go on through this.

Why would you do that? No Master Loot = no loot funneling.

This would be a great shift in guild competition because suddenly some guilds with more competent players would be able to win against no lifers that funnel loot in the first 2-3 weeks with 3-4 heroic split-runs.

And with tier sets gone i don't see any use for master loot now anyways, you participate in killing a boss and get your fair chance at loot, if you want something specific you can increase your chances with bonus rolls.

Don't see any downside to that especially with the amount of loot you get nowadays.

Loot drops always were and will be random, the only addition i would like to see is a "smart" personal loot so your chance of getting the same item with the same itemlevel is reduced when you rekill a boss or something like that.

[Kirbypro]

Best system would be Personal Loot but remove all trading restrictions if they are on the same realm.

[Deleted]

you are purposely ignoring fact that they will be redesigning stat systems so that situation like this will be very rare. my bet is they will reduce 2ndary stats on gear significantly in next alpha builds (lets say cut value by 5 or 10) so that itlv>eveyrthing not like it was in legion or in past.

they are clearly making deep reworks to gearing .

If you make secondary stats so useless that a 1000ilvl ring with versatility/haste is an upgrade for you despite your best stats being mastery/crit and you having a 990ilvl mastery/crit ring, guess what?

You've just destroyed any remaining depth to gearing the game has. Just slap on the highest ilvl piece and you're good to go, right? No need to hunt down that haste piece you need to make a break point, because secondary stats are so useless that they're meaningless. your "bet" would destroy a huge part of the game.