Addition for the better

[Chaelexi]

You keep saying "Classic is not Vanilla, Classic in not Vanilla", but you fail to realize that Classic is also not retail, Classic is not for adding things that never existed in the game, Classic is not for building new stuff. Do you honestly think they will commit development time to adding new content to a version of the game that is nearly 15 years old that won't exist on retail? No. There might be bug fixes, they MIGHT add a few QoL things (ideally none, but there might be a few, we'll have to see). However, Ion has said that "Classic is Classic" meaning that it will be as close to a photocopy of Vanilla as is possible.

The arguments you are using is like saying, "I am going to reprint the Odyssey, but you know, add cars because that is the common mode of transportation now, and add guns, because no one fights with swords anymore, and also GPS, because who uses a normal map anymore, but it won't really change the work!". Yes, there will be a few changes that they won't be able to replicate, like lag in Ironforge due to slower internet connections and less powerful computer equipment, or any sort of graphical anomalies caused by older versions of DirectX or older hardware. The game will likely run faster and look nicer, by virtue of better equipment. It is like hearing The White Album by the Beatles on CD vs on vinyl. The new technology will smooth out some of the rough edges that gave character to the original.

But the kind of crap you are suggesting is like replacing Sebastien Shaw in Return of the Jedi with Hayden Christensen as the ghost of Anakin. It was hated then and will be hated now. The smart move is to leave it how it was as that is what people want. Unlike retail, Classic will live or die by player engagement which will be dictated and driven by reaction to what is added vs what is left the same. Classic will become a huge failure if no one plays because they change too much, like adding stuff that didn't exist or making every spec viable.

YOu say that this is what people want but there is a giant mix of what people want it is just the Vanilla is Vanilla people that cry the loudest. And yes Ion has said Classic is Classic but they have never EVER said CLASSIC IS VANILLA. They have been very careful on how they word it. There will be changes to make it run on new hardware better on both the server and client side. It will likely run on the new engine so they only have to maintain one engine and bug fix for one engine. This will also fix a lot of bugs like wall jumping, clipping, to get to areas where you were not "supposed" to be. And I will say again CLASSIC IS NOT VANILLA and blizzard has been very careful with how they word stuff, if you can not read between the lines you might want to get checked for a mental disability. I have also never said that the replace people like both of your examples but nice try....... I have suggested that finishing something they started on would add to the experience. Even if they added all the weapons to Domo's chest and make them all end of MC strength.

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i believe they cant say a 1:1 copy is because of the update to server code and the api for addons and the bnet integration and bug fixes and what not. not that they are adding in or altering content that theyve intimated that they wont.

I can see them adding content at some point to keep people playing.

[Deficineiron]

i believe they cant say a 1:1 copy is because of the update to server code and the api for addons and the bnet integration and bug fixes and what not. not that they are adding in or altering content that theyve intimated that they wont.

there is a lot more on the table than a technical change back-end. consider this quote in the context of all this

These decisions will really be made by the kind of discussions we see here, so... if folks want a true 1:1 Vanilla experience, then we want to see the discussion of that. If people think there should be changes here or there, then we'll want to see that too.

The community will truly be what shapes the direction of Classic as we move forward, together.

Ornyx may even be understating here, because so much is still up in the air. Even the discussions we've had as a Community team every day since we knew it was coming have been around the numerous QoL changes, class changes, content changes, and each of us has a diffe
rent opinion on what Classic "should be" because to each of us Vanilla WoW was obviously different.

they know, of course, that in reality forums will be a bunch of people wanting collectively everything, so they can cover any decisions they make.

also, this game isn't being made for people who post on ANY game forum. It is being made as a mass-market product. they want to keep good buzz with the classic community, but not sure if much else.

[Thagrynor]

YOu say that this is what people want but there is a giant mix of what people want it is just the Vanilla is Vanilla people that cry the loudest. And yes Ion has said Classic is Classic but they have never EVER said CLASSIC IS VANILLA. They have been very careful on how they word it. There will be changes to make it run on new hardware better on both the server and client side. It will likely run on the new engine so they only have to maintain one engine and bug fix for one engine. This will also fix a lot of bugs like wall jumping, clipping, to get to areas where you were not "supposed" to be. And I will say again CLASSIC IS NOT VANILLA and blizzard has been very careful with how they word stuff, if you can not read between the lines you might want to get checked for a mental disability. I have also never said that the replace people like both of your examples but nice try....... I have suggested that finishing something they started on would add to the experience. Even if they added all the weapons to Domo's chest and make them all end of MC strength.

The changes they are likely to make are BACK END changes, ie changes to make it run on current hardware, function with current software infrastructure, etc. They said they want discussion but never have they confirmed they will add anything. "Reading between the lines" is what gives us ridiculous bullshit like the guy saying that because there is 1 Drust model, clearly they are adding Drust as an allied race to the Alliance in BfA. "Reading between the lines" is what gives us bullshit like Alex Jones and all his conspiracy theory nutjob bullshit.

And just because they have used a certain turn of phrase doesn't mean anything. There are many players who refer to Vanilla as Classic, or just as WoW, not as Vanilla. There are many who hate the term Vanilla when referring to the base game. If they all refer to it as Classic, does that mean saying "Classic is Classic" means "Classic is Vanilla"? Of course not. Right now, you are so fixed on this "Classic is Classic means Classic is not Vanilla so I am right about everything changing mwahahahaa" bullshit. Realize that you are READING TOO MUCH INTO IT. Until Ion and the devs say, "We are doing X" or "Classic is going to be Y", it is all SPECULATION and THEORY. No amount of sitting there claiming that you are right will guarantee it to be so. Maybe you are, but based on how they've spoken about it in the past and comments Ion's made, I don't think that is the case.

And again, you fail to acknowledge the fact that they are not going to commit development resources to adding content to a novelty version of the game representing how it was nearly 15 years old. What next? Should we believe that Blizzard adding that yearly little event of Diablo 1 being playable in Diablo 3 means they are going to add new content to Diablo 1? No. The ship of "Adding new content to Vanilla" sailed when they released BC. And again, you ignore the fact that Blizzard is INTENSELY aware that the people who were most vocal about wanting Classic servers (you know, the ones that prompted Blizzard is actually do this) were the ones who wants VANILLA servers, not "Can we have Vanilla, but with all the modern conveniences?" servers. Blizzard is not going to shit all over the people who wanted it by bastardizing and disfiguring what they asked for. You know why? Because then they will be clamoring again for VANILLA servers. And Blizzard would be right back to where they started.

[Chaelexi]

The changes they are likely to make are BACK END changes, ie changes to make it run on current hardware, function with current software infrastructure, etc. They said they want discussion but never have they confirmed they will add anything. "Reading between the lines" is what gives us ridiculous bullshit like the guy saying that because there is 1 Drust model, clearly they are adding Drust as an allied race to the Alliance in BfA. "Reading between the lines" is what gives us bullshit like Alex Jones and all his conspiracy theory nutjob bullshit.

And just because they have used a certain turn of phrase doesn't mean anything. There are many players who refer to Vanilla as Classic, or just as WoW, not as Vanilla. There are many who hate the term Vanilla when referring to the base game. If they all refer to it as Classic, does that mean saying "Classic is Classic" means "Classic is Vanilla"? Of course not. Right now, you are so fixed on this "Classic is Classic means Classic is not Vanilla so I am right about everything changing mwahahahaa" bullshit. Realize that you are READING TOO MUCH INTO IT. Until Ion and the devs say, "We are doing X" or "Classic is going to be Y", it is all SPECULATION and THEORY. No amount of sitting there claiming that you are right will guarantee it to be so. Maybe you are, but based on how they've spoken about it in the past and comments Ion's made, I don't think that is the case.

And again, you fail to acknowledge the fact that they are not going to commit development resources to adding content to a novelty version of the game representing how it was nearly 15 years old. What next? Should we believe that Blizzard adding that yearly little event of Diablo 1 being playable in Diablo 3 means they are going to add new content to Diablo 1? No. The ship of "Adding new content to Vanilla" sailed when they released BC. And again, you ignore the fact that Blizzard is INTENSELY aware that the people who were most vocal about wanting Classic servers (you know, the ones that prompted Blizzard is actually do this) were the ones who wants VANILLA servers, not "Can we have Vanilla, but with all the modern conveniences?" servers. Blizzard is not going to shit all over the people who wanted it by bastardizing and disfiguring what they asked for. You know why? Because then they will be clamoring again for VANILLA servers. And Blizzard would be right back to where they started.

It does not matter what people call it it is what Blizzard calls it as they are the deciding factor. And using what you say against you, Blizzard has said it will be a Vanilla like experience....not Classic will be Vanilla servers. Guess what they are hiring an entire Dev team for this and not repurposing the D3 team to make a D1 storyline. So do not be surprised when there is some new storyline/content in Classic world because it will cause a spike in the player base for a couple months with a possibility of getting a few more constant subs to fight off the constant player base loss that Classic will face. Hell to really rev it up maybe they will make the BG that was never completed in Vanilla either.

[Deficineiron]

And again, you fail to acknowledge the fact that they are not going to commit development resources to adding content to a novelty version of the game representing how it was nearly 15 years old. What next? Should we believe that Blizzard adding that yearly little event of Diablo 1 being playable in Diablo 3 means they are going to add new content to Diablo 1? No. The ship of "Adding new content to Vanilla" sailed when they released BC. And again, you ignore the fact that Blizzard is INTENSELY aware that the people who were most vocal about wanting Classic servers (you know, the ones that prompted Blizzard is actually do this) were the ones who wants VANILLA servers, not "Can we have Vanilla, but with all the modern conveniences?" servers. Blizzard is not going to shit all over the people who wanted it by bastardizing and disfiguring what they asked for. You know why? Because then they will be clamoring again for VANILLA servers. And Blizzard would be right back to where they started.

1) no one is paying blizzard 15$ a month to play diablo 1

2) yes, blizzard will shit all over those folks who want vanilla servers, and they will tell them that they are doing it because the community was in favor of it. Didn't you see the blue post setting up that narrative?

[Xecks]

1) no one is paying blizzard 15$ a month to play diablo 1

2) yes, blizzard will shit all over those folks who want vanilla servers, and they will tell them that they are doing it because the community was in favor of it. Didn't you see the blue post setting up that narrative?

i hope youre wrong that they will shit all over us.

[Thagrynor]

1) no one is paying blizzard 15$ a month to play diablo 1

2) yes, blizzard will shit all over those folks who want vanilla servers, and they will tell them that they are doing it because the community was in favor of it. Didn't you see the blue post setting up that narrative?

The problem with your #1 is that you assume there will be a subscription solely for Classic servers. The far more likely scenario is that there will be a single subscription that will apply and give access to retail and to Classic together. Some might play only Classic, but most will play both. And that sub fee will go to development on new content for retail, with a small amount going to server maintenance/upkeep.

The problem with your #2 is that the Vanilla-server-wanting community is FAR more vocal than people who make a single post here or there about "her her, we should have flying mounts with vendors and LFR and other stuff that didn't exist in Vanilla". If you think that people like the OP will dominate that conversation, you are insane and have not paid attention to the vocal majority wanting actual Vanilla servers.

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It does not matter what people call it it is what Blizzard calls it as they are the deciding factor. And using what you say against you, Blizzard has said it will be a Vanilla like experience....not Classic will be Vanilla servers. Guess what they are hiring an entire Dev team for this and not repurposing the D3 team to make a D1 storyline. So do not be surprised when there is some new storyline/content in Classic world because it will cause a spike in the player base for a couple months with a possibility of getting a few more constant subs to fight off the constant player base loss that Classic will face. Hell to really rev it up maybe they will make the BG that was never completed in Vanilla either.

The Diablo reference was merely a reference to having old content becoming playable again not meaning they would add new stuff to old content.

They have stated that the team being brought in is a team to make the servers run. If that is the case, they are bringing in a back end team, not content developers. If they have content developers, those are the people likely to work on making the small adjustments that are impacted by what changes they might need to make to make the servers run and will likely be a small group of devs.

And you say things like "do not be surprised when there is some new story" as if you know. Again, you are speculating. And if the announcement comes out where they say they aren't adding anything, I expect your ass back here admitting you were talking out of your ass. You talk about "oh they can make a BG that was never completed", except a BG doesn't really require any actual story to it. They could add it now, in Legion, if they wanted. Or they could have at literally any point in the last almost 15 years. Except they haven't. But you think that they will now? Laughable.

[Deficineiron]

The problem with your #1 is that you assume there will be a subscription solely for Classic servers. The far more likely scenario is that there will be a single subscription that will apply and give access to retail and to Classic together. Some might play only Classic, but most will play both. And that sub fee will go to development on new content for retail, with a small amount going to server maintenance/upkeep.

The problem with your #2 is that the Vanilla-server-wanting community is FAR more vocal than people who make a single post here or there about "her her, we should have flying mounts with vendors and LFR and other stuff that didn't exist in Vanilla". If you think that people like the OP will dominate that conversation, you are insane and have not paid attention to the vocal majority wanting actual Vanilla servers.

re 1 - the point is, blizzard has a very large incentive to be as successful with classic as possible - both in terms of altering unsub patterns with current customers, bringing back former customers, and even new customers. if someone who traditionally unsubs 6 months during the normal and customary content drought instead stays subbed, that is new revenue for blizzard.

#2 I don't think I am wrong per se - blizzard is going through great efforts to placate the vocal minority, WHILE AT THE SAME TIME putting stuff out there like if class balancing feels classic, or if people even want a 1-1 vanilla version or want new features in it too. they are trying to guide the general framework of conversation gradually towards where blizzard wants to go with this project. This is smart, and certainly goes over better than simply telling folks on day one they are going to /cast raise dead on classic and turn it into a retail classic-zombie with 12 hit dice.

once again, i am not saying blizzard doesn't see some sense in making actual classic servers. I am saying that institutionally, Activision-Blizzard doesn't make products like Classic. The amount of corporate inertia involved is insurmountable, in my opinion.

[Thagrynor]

re 1 - the point is, blizzard has a very large incentive to be as successful with classic as possible - both in terms of altering unsub patterns with current customers, bringing back former customers, and even new customers. if someone who traditionally unsubs 6 months during the normal and customary content drought instead stays subbed, that is new revenue for blizzard.

#2 I don't think I am wrong per se - blizzard is going through great efforts to placate the vocal minority, WHILE AT THE SAME TIME putting stuff out there like if class balancing feels classic, or if people even want a 1-1 vanilla version or want new features in it too. they are trying to guide the general framework of conversation gradually towards where blizzard wants to go with this project. This is smart, and certainly goes over better than simply telling folks on day one they are going to /cast raise dead on classic and turn it into a retail classic-zombie with 12 hit dice.

once again, i am not saying blizzard doesn't see some sense in making actual classic servers. I am saying that institutionally, Activision-Blizzard doesn't make products like Classic. The amount of corporate inertia involved is insurmountable, in my opinion.

Re #2 - I totally get what you are saying, I just think that the very vocal majority (of people involved in the conversation who have the perseverance and passion for this subject and will keep coming back and staying with the conversation to be had) are people who will not want ANY changes to Vanilla (and will only accept the changes needed to make it actually run that result with in game consequences that are unavoidable - ie, reduction of lag in certain places, graphic quality, etc). So I think that the vocal majority's demands will be mutually exclusive to the people asking for things to be added. I get Blizzard wanting to make everyone happy and that, from a financial standpoint, they want everyone loving the game and subscribing just for it, or at least as a reason to stay subbed in a time they might unsub, but if they can't make everyone happy, I think they will be aiming to make the most vocal happy.