(WoW eSports) Evidence of cheating amongst qualified eSports teams in Europe

[Lahiri]

Boosting is against the ToS, no matter how ones pays or if it is free.

How can that be the case? How do they determine it?

It's a 3v3 match. So 2 of the players are amazing and 1 is not. Their team is still 3 people with a combined skill level that either beats or loses to other teams.

People can think what they want about paying for it but how in any way can it be called cheating?!

[Gorgodeus]

How can that be the case? How do they determine it?

It's a 3v3 match. So 2 of the players are amazing and 1 is not. Their team is still 3 people with a combined skill level that either beats or loses to other teams.

People can think what they want about paying for it but how in any way can it be called cheating?!

Boosting a players' rank, allows access to better gear. That is an unfair advantage, and why it is against the ToS.

[Lahiri]

Boosting a players' rank, allows access to better gear. That is an unfair advantage, and why it is against the ToS.

That's not answering anything. As long as the person plays their own character the wins/loses and ultimate rank have not been cheated in any way.

[SirCowdog]

Boosting is against the ToS, no matter how ones pays or if it is free.

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Yes, but without blatant obvious evidence, how would you determine that it was boosting instead of just players playing together?

I highly suspect that without the 3rd party currency trade involved, this wouldn't have made anyone's news feed.

[Gorgodeus]

That's not answering anything. As long as the person plays their own character the wins/loses and ultimate rank have not been cheated in any way.

Yes, they have cheated. They have enlisted a group to artificially inflate their rank. This is not rocket science. It is the primary reason rankings numbers went so high.

- - - Updated - - -

Yes, but without blatant obvious evidence, how would you determine that it was boosting instead of just players playing together?

I highly suspect that without the 3rd party currency trade involved, this wouldn't have made anyone's news feed.

I never said it was always easy to detect every case of boosting.

[SirCowdog]

I never said it was always easy to detect every case of boosting.

Nor did I think you did. I was simply making the point of how much of a difference real money vs wow gold/tokens makes in this situation.

Had gold or wow tokens been used instead of some 3rd party currency, not only would it have been harder to detect and prove, but I suspect Blizzard would have cared a lot less too.

[Deleted]

In the end it's about WoW PvP and Arena which makes me utterly indifferent to the whole issue. I can name more curling players than WoW Arena teams.

My advice is to move on and get on with life.

[Caolela]

When incapable of having a rational counterargument, resort to meme namecalling. Gotcha.

Still waiting on you to prove to us what is unethical, lying, and deceitful.

The argument has been put forward but you're still in denial of the plainly obvious. That's what makes you a fanboy. If you don't like the label then don't do it.

Every time Lore or Ion or (formerly) Holinka, to name a few, opens their mouths they lie and are deceitful. Any objective look at what they've said and done over the years bears that out.

[Gorgodeus]

The argument has been put forward but you're still in denial of the plainly obvious. That's what makes you a fanboy. If you don't like the label then don't do it.

Every time Lore or Ion or (formerly) Holinka, to name a few, opens their mouths they lie and are deceitful. Any objective look at what they've said and done over the years bears that out.

Hint: Lore and Ion do not run Activision/Blizzard, nor do they have any say in what Blizzard does in relation to finances. Keep trying.

[Swalload]

Original thread: ---snip---

(Cannot post links yet, refer to the reddit thread for easy links - ---snip--- )

It has come to my attention there is a large unbalance between competitive PVE and PVP. Last year, real money sales were disallowed by blizzard resulting in the suspensions of multiple top level guilds at the time (refer to pastebin) - a form of boosting. Blizzard has also taken great strides in dealing with the old form of PVP boosting, which was Account Sharing, by seemingly banning those who practice it in the past few years, however now there is a new form of boosting in PVP available which is identical to PVE Carries; Coaching.

At the forefront of this I would like to note that I believe every single team that is qualified for the Spring Finals from Europe is engaging in Coaching, however this team was the easiest to get to, and with time being a sensitive issue with the Spring Finals occurring at the end of this month, I could not gather more evidence on other teams(nor do I have the funds to buy several hours from different teams at this extortionate price).

Coaching is explicitly banned by blizzard as tweeted here by CM Lore (refer to pastebin).

Here are two videos from a private twitch channel where I private streamed my session with the players ---snip--- from the team ---snip---, the ---snip--- for the spring finals and who are flying out within the month to compete.

refer to pastebin

For this hour I paid a total of 50 euros, 25 each - here is the ingame chat and skype log between myself and ---snip--- setting up the session: refer to pastebin

Within the first five minutes of exhibit 1, ---snip--- can be heard confirming his payment, and discussing how I sent it in the wrong currency (SEK), which can be seen in the paypal screenshots below, as well as ---snip--- also confirming he got the payment.

The video also shows multiple things, such as at 17 minutes in where ---snip--- states how they have been coaching for "a year and a half" and how at 40 mins in they boost multiple people to gladiator each season, even some rank one titles.

Paypal Transactions: refer to pastebin
Here is also a clip of ---snip--- talking in case you have never heard them, on ---snip--- official twitch channel which is verified, on the same characters as in the vod: refer to pastebin More talking on different characters: refer to pastebin

Players who compete in WoW esports are required to maintain a account in good standing at all times (refer to pastebin) as this coaching infringes on the Terms of Service I am calling for a immediate disqualification of these players and this team in order to maintain the integrity of the tournament.

In order to help, please forward this thread, or the contents, or your own summarized version of this to (refer to pastebin)

Thank you for reading.

I feel like I missunderstood something here.

Here's what I understand: The already good and qualified players are offering lessons to help other players in PvP, these customers pay them. That kind of transaction is against the ToS, which should get them disqualified. But you call it cheating when in fact they are spending their time helping others instead of practicigin, which by all logic means they are crippling themselves instead of gaining an advantage.

So, the people doing the cheating is whoever is buying these coaching lessons, while the guys doing the coaching are not cheating but are doing something illegal which should get them disqualified even if it's not cheating on their part.

If I got this right, you're just not using the right words.

[Caolela]

Hint: Lore and Ion do not run Activision/Blizzard, nor do they have any say in what Blizzard does in relation to finances. Keep trying.

This is you putting words in someone's mouth when you have no excuse for Blizzard's behavior. I didn't say they ran the company, etc. but they are responsible for a large part of the spin (disinfo/misinfo) that is put out by Blizz.

Why don't you keep trying to find ways to excuse or deflect Blizzard's responsibility in this?

[Gorgodeus]

This is you putting words in someone's mouth when you have no excuse for their behavior. I didn't say they ran the company, etc. but they are responsible for a large part of the spin (disinfo/misinfo) that is put out by Blizz.

Why don't you keep trying to find ways to excuse or deflect Blizzard's responsibility in this?

Still awaiting how protecting one's profits is unethical, greedy or untruthful. Keep sidestepping the question.

[Caolela]

Still awaiting how protecting one's profits is unethical, greedy or untruthful. Keep sidestepping the question.

Just like we don't mow people down with a gun for fairly small offenses with the excuse that, "I was protecting my profits".

You've conveniently missed the part that when it's done in those ways...unethical, greedy or untruthful, it's a problem for those on the receiving end.

[Seidhe]

Boosting is against the ToS, no matter how ones pays or if it is free.

I am going with my guild mates sometimes arena 3v3 just to rofl. I am 1500 rait they are 2.2k+. And we are not only guildmates but friends irl. So you basicly saying that they cannot play with me because its unfair to my own raiting players? So we should stick to random people with our own raiting and loose interest in game because we couldnt play arena with irl friends with different raiting because you find it cheating?

[Gorgodeus]

I am going with my guild mates sometimes arena 3v3 just to rofl. I am 1500 rait they are 2.2k+. And we are not only guildmates but friends irl. So you basicly saying that they cannot play with me because its unfair to my own raiting players? So we should stick to random people with our own raiting and loose interest in game because we couldnt play arena with irl friends with different raiting because you find it cheating?

Pretty sure your guildmates are not charging you to run arenas with them now are they?

[Deleted]

So moderators remove the links but keep the thread up?

Lol what the hell are we even discussing when the OP has been sniped of any and all information needed to have a discussion about this?

This thread is literally useless. If you're going to remove all the content out of the OP, you might as well close the thread too.

[Gorgodeus]

Just like we don't mow people down with a gun for fairly small offenses with the excuse that, "I was protecting my profits".

You've conveniently missed the part that when it's done in those ways...unethical, greedy or untruthful, it's a problem for those on the receiving end.

So now enforcing the rules you have put in place is now equated to mowing people down with a gun. Nice hyperbole, but keep trying.

[Azerate]

Isn't coaching like teaching a dude play the game? How is that wrong?

[Caolela]

So now enforcing the rules you have put in place ...

What "enforcing"? LOL

You mean when they look the other way for months/years on their big-time streamers and well-known players on the ladders - because those guys help to sell accts. to the wannabe kiddies?

[Orpheus66]

I really don't understand how teaching someone how to play is considered cheating. Does that mean all those instructional PvP video's on YouTube are against the TOS?