Immigration: let's learn from Japan

[Theodarzna]

A)Never said anything about a solution. Just pointed out why they are screwed at the current rate.
B)Again, slow decline can be adjusted over time. Loosing 10% of your workforce over 40 years is much different then loosing it in 5 years. Also growth rates don't follow a trend forever.
C)It doesn't matter what my position is on it, it's happening everywhere. Everyone from the US to Russia to China have been like that for a while. Every country if they have the resources is going to do that. Apply this to companies, and the same thing happens.

A) Declining population isn't really a problem unless you make it a problem. Focus on real issues like Climate Change.

B) The decline shows no signs nor precedent for levelling off.

C) Or maybe lets let populations in these resource hogging nations decline if for no other reason than shrinking the carbon footprint.

[Draco-Onis]

If automation is going to be really big in the future, which I think it will be, then there will be far less need of a workforce especially for menial stuff. I'd say that a higher standard of living for fewer people is a good goal. So far all I see in this thread are people applying todays logic to a future society. Automation is going to be as big as the industrial revolution if not bigger.

The problem of Japan is that they have too few people to make it to the future. They are at full employment and have a economic catastrophe in the works with the growing aging population and debt to GDP ratio (250%).

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A) Declining population isn't really a problem unless you make it a problem. Focus on real issues like Climate Change.

B) The decline shows no signs nor precedent for levelling off.

C) Or maybe lets let populations in these resource hogging nations decline if for no other reason than shrinking the carbon footprint.

For your theory to work out then we would need to kill a lot of old people most modern countries have a social safety net that needs to be maintained and Japan's population problem puts a heavy strain on the economy. Also the reason Japanese people need to work so many hours is because labor is short which in turn is killing their society psychologically and literally (suicide rate).

[Macaquerie]

Isn't Japan one of the most technologically advanced nations atm? I'd say they're right on track.

They used to be, but nowadays they're lagging behind because their business environment is centered around plodding and inefficient mega-conglomerates that avoid risk and resist any kind of change, and there isn't much of a startup culture or entrepreneurial spirit like there is in other countries.

[Jastall]

Declining population isn't really a problem unless you make it a problem. Focus on real issues like Climate Change.

It's not a made up problem when your government is in debt up to its ears and, more importantly, has a constantly shrinking worker base to support it with nothing like the US's gargantuan financial sector and banks to absorb the hits. Japan is utterly at the mercy of the world's economy, and unless they can literally develop magical AI that can automate complex tasks for a decent price way before anyone else (fat chance of that) it will bite them in the ass.

Also what kind of false dichotomy is that anyway.

[Tack980]

A) Declining population isn't really a problem unless you make it a problem. Focus on real issues like Climate Change.

B) The decline shows no signs nor precedent for levelling off.

C) Or maybe lets let populations in these resource hogging nations decline if for no other reason than shrinking the carbon footprint.

A)It becomes one when your economy takes a nose dive ( which they might not want). At that point, i think the people there won't really care about other issues.
B)What do you mean no signs or precedent? 100 years ago i could have made that same argument with increasing birthrate. You mean because it hasn't happened within 20 years? You can't attribute that with anything else other than " it's not happening" ?.
C) Good luck with that.

[Sting]

Did you know that disco record sales were up 400% for the year ending 1976? If these trends continue....

Probably a safer investment than bitcoin 8)

In all seriousness though it's not like they're going to be catapulted back into the 1950s.

[Theodarzna]

For your theory to work out then we would need to kill a lot of old people most modern countries have a social safety net that needs to be maintained and Japan's population problem puts a heavy strain on the economy. Also the reason Japanese people need to work so many hours is because labor is short which in turn is killing their society psychologically and literally (suicide rate).

They can either raise taxes on big business, I know an unthinkable idea in the United States, or perhaps spend less resources on keeping the elderly alive into the year 100 or more.

[Draco-Onis]

They can either raise taxes on big business, I know an unthinkable idea in the United States, or perhaps spend less resources on keeping the elderly alive into the year 100 or more.

I believe Japan's corporate tax rate is pretty high already, they are borrowing more than they should to cover and I doubt any politician is going to cut services to the elderly. The US has the same problem cutting benefits to the elderly is political suicide even though the current model is not sustainable.

[Jastall]

They can either raise taxes on big business, I know an unthinkable idea in the United States, or perhaps spend less resources on keeping the elderly alive into the year 100 or more.

Given that Japan has been lowering its previously high corporate tax recently (30% now vs an all-time high of 50% if memory serves) and that spending fewer resources on healthcare and the elderly, a powerful voting group, is a surefire way to get kicked out of office in any self-respecting democracy you will need to find more realistic solutions.

Plus given how inflexible and outdated Japan's corporate conglomerate model it, taxing it more is probably not a good idea in the first place, they need all the help they can get.

[Cthulhu 2020]

A) Declining population isn't really a problem unless you make it a problem. Focus on real issues like Climate Change.

Declining populations lead to a host of many more issues. If there is a big time period in which birth rates are low, you suddenly have a huge elderly population being propped up by very few young people, leading to massive government debt and/or younger people working their asses off to support the aging populace.

If you're so concerned about the welfare of a nation, declining population leads to a huge number of issues. It seems you're being obtuse and just want to claim "it's not a problem unless you make it a problem" since defying "SJWs" is higher on your priority list than actual welfare of the people.

[Deleted]

Is there some law somewhere that says a countries population must grow forever?

you are right, fucking in the front hole is just a fad, bound to go out of fashion soon

[Theodarzna]

you are right, fucking in the front hole is just a fad, bound to go out of fashion soon

Look at the fertility rates around the world, you may be right in that assessment.

[Cherrytie]

Yes, let us learn from Japan how to not be so xenophobic and isolationist we experience negative population growth.

In a world where overpopulation is the biggest issue, I agree

[Cthulhu 2020]

Because immigration automatically means criminal.



I don't get these comments. When a country doesn't do what is widely accepted or popular, use derogatory names to shame it down. It sounds like "I don't like what this group of people are doing over there....I am going to fuck it up for them. [Duck walk towards the group to call them with names]". What the fuck? I mean, from very start you are already not showing respect to differences and then you wonder they are 'xenophobic'.

They've been xenophobic for centuries. And Xenophobia is just an irrational fear and distrust of outsiders. The word itself simply describes a certain behavior.

"I'm afraid of spiders and kill them on sight."
"So you're an arachnophobe."
"GOD STOP CALLING ME NAMES ALREADY."

If people find it insulting to be called xenophobic, perhaps they should stop displaying incredibly irrational fears of outsiders.

[Calfredd]

In a world where overpopulation is the biggest issue, I agree

You must be looking at total population and not by country if you feel that way.

[Sky High]

They've been xenophobic for centuries. And Xenophobia is just an irrational fear and distrust of outsiders. The word itself simply describes a certain behavior.

"I'm afraid of spiders and kill them on sight."
"So you're an arachnophobe."
"GOD STOP CALLING ME NAMES ALREADY."

If people find it insulting to be called xenophobic, perhaps they should stop displaying incredibly irrational fears of outsiders.

It’s not just xenophobia, it’s plain old racism. If you’re a “Gaijin” (outsider, and this also applies to Japanese folk who live abroad) then you are expected to be an outsider no matter what.

[Theodarzna]

I believe Japan's corporate tax rate is pretty high already, they are borrowing more than they should to cover and I doubt any politician is going to cut services to the elderly. The US has the same problem cutting benefits to the elderly is political suicide even though the current model is not sustainable.

Well, that is a curious thing. I think the Elderly shouldn't be rewarded for such short-term planning. If they didn't create enough taxpayers for these programs they shouldn't be bailed out. But perhaps I am crueller than most.

[Deleted]

Declining populations lead to a host of many more issues. If there is a big time period in which birth rates are low, you suddenly have a huge elderly population being propped up by very few young people, leading to massive government debt and/or younger people working their asses off to support the aging populace.

If you're so concerned about the welfare of a nation, declining population leads to a huge number of issues. It seems you're being obtuse and just want to claim "it's not a problem unless you make it a problem" since defying "SJWs" is higher on your priority list than actual welfare of the people.

ahaha wow so youre telling me social security and shit like that is a ponzi scheme? big fuckin surprise.

dont expect any when youre new population is full of immigrants who only commit crime or actually take 10x more taxes than rhey give

[Varvara Spiros Gelashvili]

In a world where overpopulation is the biggest issue, I agree

They don't have enough young people to support the older generation or prop up the work force. When ai and automation hits a low population isn't a bad thing but that's 50-100 maybe even 200 years off and we live in the now.

[Tech614]

Yes, let us learn from Japan how to not be so xenophobic and isolationist we experience negative population growth.

Negative population growth isn't exactly a bad thing, especially when you have that many people living on a damn island.

If only the rest of the world would stop producing kids the second they turn 14 years old...