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  1. #121
    Quote Originally Posted by Zyalo View Post
    I hate this argument.

    They might not be playing 100%. But even someone playing at 80% is still 2% more powerful with a 2% upgrade, just that 2% means less.

    Let's use an extreme example of best + worst class on a fight:
    Arcane Mage 1 Mil DPS potential playing at 80% 800k gets 2% upgrade, 816k DPS.
    Survival Hunter 800k DPS potential playing at 95% 760k gets 2% upgrade, 775k DPS

    Who'd you rather give it to to see bosses die? Arcane Mage everytime.
    Why? Unless you're thinking of benching the hunter, what matters is the total dps output. If anything, concentrating upgrades into the highest performing specs just means that if they die you lose more.

  2. #122
    Quote Originally Posted by Ooid View Post
    I’m against the removal of it. Player choice is important and this removes choice for a lot of guilds.
    did they say that it was being removed? is the option gone in alpha testing?

  3. #123
    Quote Originally Posted by Zyky View Post
    Then good leave master loot alone, if you truly believe that. Dungeons are already personal loot and they screw over people more than master loot does. I've seen it happen several times where something higher IL drops that I or someone else doesn't need but we can't trade it to someone who would use it. It's happened more times than I can remember this expansion in specifically mythic plus. This is going to be the same problem in BFA if they make PL in raids. "Oh my DH got a Haste/Vers neck Thats 10ils higher than my Crit/Mastery Neck, guess its just a DE shard since I can't trade it. Sorry tanks, misc dps, and misc healers."
    Like mentioned above, a small adjustment to PL and this system has a chance to be just as rewarding with others being able to decide for themselves if they want to hand over loot to someone else. We have no idea how an always PL system will be implemented but all I am saying it can work out fine not giving one person all the power to hand out loot. I am alrdy coming up with a plan to make this work smoothly without killing time and still have loot given to those who need it. I am hoping a small tweak to the system is all that is needed but then again I am a positive person thinking positive...the sky is not falling, trust me.

  4. #124
    Quote Originally Posted by WiggleTillFriday View Post
    Like mentioned above, a small adjustment to PL and this system has a chance to be just as rewarding with others being able to decide for themselves if they want to hand over loot to someone else. We have no idea how an always PL system will be implemented but all I am saying it can work out fine not giving one person all the power to hand out loot. I am alrdy coming up with a plan to make this work smoothly without killing time and still have loot given to those who need it. I am hoping a small tweak to the system is all that is needed but then again I am a positive person thinking positive...the sky is not falling, trust me.
    And if they do that, guilds will require you to hand over loot to a Master Looter and they'll distribute it how they want. Fail to comply and you'll be kicked. Just leave it alone and don't attempt to 'fix' something that isn't broken.

    It isn't uncommon and in fact most guilds already do this, in form of BoE drops from the raids. Most guilds do require you to hand them over to either fund the guild bank and/or for them to roll off and be given to who needs it the most.
    Last edited by Zyky; 2018-03-17 at 02:56 AM.
    Quote Originally Posted by scarecrowz View Post
    Trust me.

    Zyky is better than you.

  5. #125
    Quote Originally Posted by Kaleros View Post
    It's the natural path towards the goal blizz set a long ago with Wotlk filosofy, Gradually stripping WoW of it's MMO features to trasform it into something more arcade and manageable. The social people satisfaction driven were gradually starved of content since then and the casual "fun" players were rewarded for interacting less and less. I'm not surprised in the least from this change, after 10-25 split->lfg->lfr->flex->personal and m+ theyr goal was so obvious that i'm honestly amused to see someone get shocked by this change. I honestly would not be surprised to see raids go altogheter. The playerbase is not interested in the old MMO systems anymore, so it's perfectly reasonable for them to go into this direction.
    maybe current playerbase.. blizzard scared off the old playerbase with all the changes they've been making to the game.. and it still doesnt make any sense

    and if u answer with "well they do it for the current playerbase so it makes sense" or with something like that i'll tell u that old playerbase was also CURRENT at some point, yet they made those changes regardless

  6. #126
    Quote Originally Posted by Zyky View Post
    And if they do that, guilds will require you to hand over loot to a Master Looter and they'll distribute it how they want. Fail to comply and you'll be kicked. Just leave it alone and don't attempt to 'fix' something that isn't broken.
    I would never require someone to hand over loot they needed or was an upgrade. I would like to think that my guild and the amazing ppl in it will always do whats best to progress and giving them the power to decide and have others roll for the gear they can hand over. The mentality of making ppl hand over all gear to be distributed is crazy. Having said that, if cutting edge groups wanna do this and all are on board than whats the issue? turns out to be a glorified ML system anyway.

  7. #127
    Quote Originally Posted by Zyky View Post
    Then don't put your opinion in, if it doesn't effect you, then your opinion is literally not worth anything. Otherwise you're literally just a white knight defending blizzard and a terrible choice that just further destroys guilds and organized raiding.
    I think this is something you are going to have to get used to since you know.. ML might be going away.. no toggle there or hear that allows you to get your way. Oh and oh no not a label. Please don't do that mister... who are you again? I will share and do as I please and you won't be putting a stop to it.

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    Quote Originally Posted by WiggleTillFriday View Post
    I would never require someone to hand over loot they needed or was an upgrade. I would like to think that my guild and the amazing ppl in it will always do whats best to progress and giving them the power to decide and have others roll for the gear they can hand over. The mentality of making ppl hand over all gear to be distributed is crazy. Having said that, if cutting edge groups wanna do this and all are on board than whats the issue? turns out to be a glorified ML system anyway.
    You have to understand that his guild might be one of the only places in his life he actually has influence and his power is displayed in pixel rewards. He is big.. tough.. and highly skilled because of that. Once it is gone.. he is likely right.. a lot of people will look at him and say "why the fuck are we around this dude again??"

  8. #128
    Quote Originally Posted by Ooid View Post
    I’m against the removal of it. Player choice is important and this removes choice for a lot of guilds.
    Your two statements are contradictory - personal loot puts ALL the choice in the player's hands.
    With the removal of tier pieces - there is literally NO reason for any other loot system.

    Person gets loot ... gets to choose if they give it to someone else.

    Challenge Mode : Play WoW like my disability has me play:
    You will need two people, Brian MUST use the mouse for movement/looking and John MUST use the keyboard for casting, attacking, healing etc.
    Briand and John share the same goal, same intentions - but they can't talk to each other, however they can react to each other's in game activities.
    Now see how far Brian and John get in WoW.


  9. #129
    Well it doesn't change much tbh as long as trading is still a thing. It just turns everyone that gets a piece into a loot master. If it's better for someone else then you just trade it. Even with the system in place now I pass on things that are better for other people in the guild. So with this I'd just have to trade the person. It doesn't matter to me. I see someone in a pug that can use the upgrade and i don't need it I trade it to them more often than not. Idc about the shard value.
    Last edited by Barnabas; 2018-03-17 at 03:41 AM.

  10. #130
    Quote Originally Posted by Daetur View Post
    That's a paltry 1k DPS difference. Except for the <0.1% of guilds who are hard pushing the hardest of content, that will virtually never make for the difference between a wipe and a kill. Be realistic.

    There are problems with Personal vs Master loot, but "guilds will wipe because they can't squeeze an extra <0.001% DPS out of their raid by funneling tier to the mages over the hunters" isn't a terribly compelling one.
    His example works at every level, because he proved it's fundamentally more beneficial to give it to the arcane mage in that example than the hunter. It doesn't matter what level of you that example is taken at, the result is always the same.

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    Quote Originally Posted by schwarzkopf View Post
    Your two statements are contradictory - personal loot puts ALL the choice in the player's hands.
    With the removal of tier pieces - there is literally NO reason for any other loot system.

    Person gets loot ... gets to choose if they give it to someone else.
    Except under personal loot rules, if it's a 5ilvl upgrade, you cannot trade it. It may not even be an upgrade for you, and Ion himself even expect 5-10ilvl range may not be an upgrade for the player, but under personal loot rules you still cannot trade that item. How is that a good system.

  11. #131
    Quote Originally Posted by Yggdrasil View Post
    I think this is something you are going to have to get used to since you know.. ML might be going away.. no toggle there or hear that allows you to get your way. Oh and oh no not a label. Please don't do that mister... who are you again? I will share and do as I please and you won't be putting a stop to it.
    I'll quit before that happens, so no, really isn't something I "need to get used to". Also nice attack in your update, I'll be reporting that one.

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    Quote Originally Posted by WiggleTillFriday View Post
    I would never require someone to hand over loot they needed or was an upgrade. I would like to think that my guild and the amazing ppl in it will always do whats best to progress and giving them the power to decide and have others roll for the gear they can hand over. The mentality of making ppl hand over all gear to be distributed is crazy. Having said that, if cutting edge groups wanna do this and all are on board than whats the issue? turns out to be a glorified ML system anyway.
    Gratz to you, however many MANY guilds will and already do. Even if its 90% of guilds, that's most, even if its 75%, still many.
    Quote Originally Posted by scarecrowz View Post
    Trust me.

    Zyky is better than you.

  12. #132
    Quote Originally Posted by MyndZero View Post
    Except under personal loot rules, if it's a 5ilvl upgrade, you cannot trade it.
    Yep - that's to ensure that the choice is personal, and cannot be forced on you.

    Challenge Mode : Play WoW like my disability has me play:
    You will need two people, Brian MUST use the mouse for movement/looking and John MUST use the keyboard for casting, attacking, healing etc.
    Briand and John share the same goal, same intentions - but they can't talk to each other, however they can react to each other's in game activities.
    Now see how far Brian and John get in WoW.


  13. #133
    Quote Originally Posted by schwarzkopf View Post
    Yep - that's to ensure that the choice is personal, and cannot be forced on you.
    except for the part where you cannot trade it even if you wanted to? like you've been on mmo-c for 7 years probably play mmo's longer why troll with shit you know is fallacious?

  14. #134
    Quote Originally Posted by Lemonpartyfan View Post
    Join/start a guild that exclusively uses PL. That would have solved your own made up problems.
    With the changes coming, Angosia won't need to do that. It is a change I am looking forward to. Mainly due to the fact that I am usually filling different roles within the guild to compensate for DPS, Heals or Tank depending on the fight we are on but my main spec loot is always healing. With the new system if there is a DPS trinket I'm looking for, I just change my loot spec. I am only worried about how we can incentify the raiders to continue to push forward with progression rather than coming in after weeks of wipes and get lucky with PL drops.
    There are 10 types of people in this world, those who understand binary and those who don't..

  15. #135
    Quote Originally Posted by Sosuke Aizen View Post
    With the changes coming, Angosia won't need to do that. It is a change I am looking forward to. Mainly due to the fact that I am usually filling different roles within the guild to compensate for DPS, Heals or Tank depending on the fight we are on but my main spec loot is always healing. With the new system if there is a DPS trinket I'm looking for, I just change my loot spec. I am only worried about how we can incentify the raiders to continue to push forward with progression rather than coming in after weeks of wipes and get lucky with PL drops.
    That's easy. You just don't invite people who are trying to do that. If its more like a new recruit getting loot, well, I find it really awkward that people would be upset that someone else on their team was fortunate. Imagine they're in your guild because you want them and its kind of ridiculous/petty to be upset that they got something they want
    Last edited by Erolian; 2018-03-17 at 04:07 AM.

  16. #136
    I was not aware they are removing master loot, how stupid.

  17. #137
    Quote Originally Posted by Sosuke Aizen View Post
    With the changes coming, Angosia won't need to do that. It is a change I am looking forward to. Mainly due to the fact that I am usually filling different roles within the guild to compensate for DPS, Heals or Tank depending on the fight we are on but my main spec loot is always healing. With the new system if there is a DPS trinket I'm looking for, I just change my loot spec. I am only worried about how we can incentify the raiders to continue to push forward with progression rather than coming in after weeks of wipes and get lucky with PL drops.
    Do you not see the flaw in what you're saying or are you not an actual mythic raider? Because a healer getting a dps trinket before the dps roster is terrible, even if you're a dps 2 of 10 fights, it's still wasted rather than on someone who's dps 10/10 fights.
    Quote Originally Posted by scarecrowz View Post
    Trust me.

    Zyky is better than you.

  18. #138
    Quote Originally Posted by Sosuke Aizen View Post
    With the changes coming, Angosia won't need to do that. It is a change I am looking forward to. Mainly due to the fact that I am usually filling different roles within the guild to compensate for DPS, Heals or Tank depending on the fight we are on but my main spec loot is always healing. With the new system if there is a DPS trinket I'm looking for, I just change my loot spec. I am only worried about how we can incentify the raiders to continue to push forward with progression rather than coming in after weeks of wipes and get lucky with PL drops.
    The same reason you are there in the first place and that is to kill bosses. At least that is my motivation. Sure loot is important but it's just a means to an end for what I'm doing. Other people getting gear isn't demotivational for me. I see it as a benefit to the group.

  19. #139
    Quote Originally Posted by Zyky View Post
    I'll quit before that happens, so no, really isn't something I "need to get used to". Also nice attack in your update, I'll be reporting that one
    I went ahead and reported it too. Because I understand that when someone like you doesn't have the capacity to silence a critic you desperately seek someone that can.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Devilyaki View Post
    I was not aware they are removing master loot, how stupid.
    I actually do not think its official. It sounds like where they are leaning though.

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    Quote Originally Posted by zanderken3 View Post
    did they say that it was being removed? is the option gone in alpha testing?
    No its mostly over reaction typical of the WoW community. It might be going it might not.

  20. #140
    Quote Originally Posted by bryce1242 View Post
    except for the part where you cannot trade it even if you wanted to?
    At some point - you have to make the call that gives the player the greater freedom.

    That choice has been made.

    Challenge Mode : Play WoW like my disability has me play:
    You will need two people, Brian MUST use the mouse for movement/looking and John MUST use the keyboard for casting, attacking, healing etc.
    Briand and John share the same goal, same intentions - but they can't talk to each other, however they can react to each other's in game activities.
    Now see how far Brian and John get in WoW.


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