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  1. #141
    Quote Originally Posted by Yggdrasil View Post
    I went ahead and reported it too. Because I understand that when someone like you doesn't have the capacity to silence a critic you desperately seek someone that can.
    Actually the other way around, when someone runs out of decent arguments for a failing ideal, they jump onto harassment since they can't come up with something new to say.
    Quote Originally Posted by scarecrowz View Post
    Trust me.

    Zyky is better than you.

  2. #142
    Quote Originally Posted by schwarzkopf View Post
    Yep - that's to ensure that the choice is personal, and cannot be forced on you.
    Yup. I mean if they remove ML option but people can be totally social pressured into surrendering pieces than the point is lost.

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by Barnabas View Post
    The same reason you are there in the first place and that is to kill bosses. At least that is my motivation. Sure loot is important but it's just a means to an end for what I'm doing. Other people getting gear isn't demotivational for me. I see it as a benefit to the group.
    Have to agree. I mean even if they arent the best player in the group. They are still in the group. So them having a little more gear works for me.

  3. #143
    Quote Originally Posted by Brubear View Post
    My biggest problem with PL going forward is that, in the future, raids that don't have a non-PL threshold will be a lot more difficult to farm for xmog gear when it's no longer relevant. That may not be a big deal to some, but I can all but guarantee you that it's a pretty important thing for a large amount of the player base.
    http://www.wowhead.com/news=282075/l...le-for-azeroth
    (I've been really excited for this)

    I'm fine with personal loot and wouldn't care if ML went away. I rarely agree with loot council decisions (yes, even ones not involving me), and /roll is basically PL anyway in terms of someone "not deserving" winning the roll in your eyes. If you were there, and you killed something, you should have a chance at the loot. Yep, sometimes that person that was dead the entire time will get the loot you were hoping for... but I'm fine with that. I will find it a little weird if they completely remove ML though. The only thing I really see it messing with is people that want to give out mount drops and such in a certain order... (and even then, some of the ways I see the mounts distributed is so biased and unfair to *everyone* there that helped kill it that I'd be glad to see this gone, too)

  4. #144
    Quote Originally Posted by Alyajna View Post
    http://www.wowhead.com/news=282075/l...le-for-azeroth
    (I've been really excited for this)

    I'm fine with personal loot and wouldn't care if ML went away. I rarely agree with loot council decisions (yes, even ones not involving me), and /roll is basically PL anyway in terms of someone "not deserving" winning the roll in your eyes. If you were there, and you killed something, you should have a chance at the loot. Yep, sometimes that person that was dead the entire time will get the loot you were hoping for... but I'm fine with that. I will find it a little weird if they completely remove ML though. The only thing I really see it messing with is people that want to give out mount drops and such in a certain order... (and even then, some of the ways I see the mounts distributed is so biased and unfair to *everyone* there that helped kill it that I'd be glad to see this gone, too)
    Couldn't agree with you more. I mean I would be lying if once upon a time I didn't totally feel differently but the game was different. Gearing was difficult. I am happy about the transmog thing too.

  5. #145
    Totally fine with master loot going away. Not giving trials or pugs loot when they helped kill a boss shouldn’t feel good to anyone (and if it does, your probably the guy whispering your raid leader asking to be awarded that +5 ilvl upgrade over a trial who will gain +20 from it). Yes there will be scenarios where certain guilds will ask you to hand over loot you’ve gotten through PL. The beauty of this system is that with PL standard, the guilds who insist on you handing over loot will be minimal (guaranteed all but the highest end guilds will just not care). In this sense it makes it easier for you to avoid these guilds if you choose to. PL also eliminates the whole dps > tank > heal loot priority bullshit that gets pushed all too often.

    With all that said, Blizzard has back-pedalled on PL before, wouldn’t surprise me if they did so again. So yeah, with the amount of tears flowing I doubt ML will be removed.

  6. #146
    Quote Originally Posted by Stabatya View Post
    With all that said, Blizzard has back-pedalled on PL before, wouldn’t surprise me if they did so again. So yeah, with the amount of tears flowing I doubt ML will be removed.
    I feel that is true and I am ok with it. Tell you the truth I have my doubts its really been "officially" removed to begin with.

  7. #147
    Quote Originally Posted by Zyky View Post
    Do you not see the flaw in what you're saying or are you not an actual mythic raider? Because a healer getting a dps trinket before the dps roster is terrible, even if you're a dps 2 of 10 fights, it's still wasted rather than on someone who's dps 10/10 fights.
    I don't think I mentioned anything about Mythic raiding but to answer your comment about the time spent healing vs dps or tank - it can vary healing all fights a specific week or dpsing for weeks because we have more healers on. Either way I am still happy with this change and for people that are flexible for the guild like I am, this will make it feel more rewarding personally.
    There are 10 types of people in this world, those who understand binary and those who don't..

  8. #148
    I hope the welfare lineup is his preferred method of employment moving forward as well.

  9. #149
    Quote Originally Posted by Sosuke Aizen View Post
    I don't think I mentioned anything about Mythic raiding but to answer your comment about the time spent healing vs dps or tank - it can vary healing all fights a specific week or dpsing for weeks because we have more healers on. Either way I am still happy with this change and for people that are flexible for the guild like I am, this will make it feel more rewarding personally.
    You didn't mention being a mythic raider, I was asking for clarity if you weren't, guess that went over your head. As for you comment you should care more about actually killing the boss than personal reward, if that means you don't get loot and someone else does then so be it, especially if it means that you're not getting a trinket that you would use 20% or even 60% of the time over someone who would use that trinket 100% of the time. Sure personal rewards feel good, but this is another problem with them forcing personal loot onto organized guild raiding, if you think it isn't a problem then you obviously don't care about killing bosses in an acceptable/appropriate amount of time, which is fine in casual mindsets, but it isn't fine in competitive and Mythic environments.

    Forcing this kind of thing onto Mythic raiding guilds opens up more problems than it fixes(which is literally 0 right now, because loot whores get weeded out pretty fast in guilds). Argus trinkets are a great example of this problem, they forced it as personal loot, which was widely hated among the playerbase. People were getting 3 trinkets before people were getting their 1st. This caused a lot of problems with guilds needing to sit people who weren't able to help them proc the pantheon buff for mythic encounters, you'll probably argue that it's only the top percent of guilds that did this, but you'd be wrong, if you looked around on the forums(mmo-c, official forums, reddit, ect), there were hundreds of people saying they were being sat on progression because they didn't have pantheon trinket, ranging up to top 1500 guilds.

    Players thought it was bad with the pantheon trinket, it's going to be far worse when its EVERY SLOT, not to mention we basically have 3 pantheon trinkets power level slots next expansion in form of Heart of Azeroth slots(helm, chest, gloves when last mentioned). These being static in what rewards are on which piece of gear is going to have very specific items that people want for those 3 slots because it's not going to be random like the Netherlight Crucible, so basically if person A gets a pair of gloves that he doesn't want from the zone and can't trade it because it dropped at higher IL than he has on, all players involved feel bad because essentially player A won't use it and player B who would have used it now can't have it, then the entire raid group suffers because a piece of loot dropped, that they had no control over who got it, is now being turned into a shard instead of being given to someone who would use it.

    Another scenario that makes this a terrible situation for Mythic guilds, not sure how much, if any, experience you have with Mythic raiding environments, but the community is filled with flakes and loot whores, which gets weeded out very quickly because guild management can control loot. If they force personal loot onto Mythic raiding guilds, then flake A shows up for 2 weeks gets super good RNG and then quits because he got everything he wanted. How is that helpful for the guild? How is taking away guild leaderships ability to promote loyalty, good attendance, and gameplay performance going to be a good thing in any regard? It isn't, is the short version.
    Quote Originally Posted by scarecrowz View Post
    Trust me.

    Zyky is better than you.

  10. #150
    Deleted
    should just go back to good old need and greed

  11. #151
    Ah ML - best way to start good old guild drama!

  12. #152
    Deleted
    There is only one reason why they are making this change. OK one MAIN reason. That reason is to kill the infinite SPLIT RAIDS that are used at high end guilds to try and revive the race for world firsts. It does not look good for wow which is a Raid focused PvE game if there is only one guild that has a legitimate shot at the first kills.

    (if you dont know what split raids are: Each player has his main Char and a few others as well that can clear the heroic version of each NEW raid. Most Mythic raid have at least one alt but the higher end ones have at LEAST 3-4. The reason for this is that you split up the main chars over multiple heroic "ids" when the new raid comes out to be able to give them all the loot they want/need from that run. So each run has 5 main chars (or how every many you can split up based on number of alts) and you fill the rest up with the alts from the other players. you use the "loot" that you would get on your alt top boost your main char. I boost yours you boost mine principle)
    The loot boosting will of course work much harder for the new raid where all the items have on average higher ilvl than what you are wearing atm esp on your alts, so this funnel effect will be 0, because you will simply not be able to trade the new gear to another main char.

    If you try to come up with a solution to the split raiding this is the most elegant one that effects the other raiders the least and is the most effective at hindering the loot funnel gameplay that is use at the start of each raid tier. If the removal of split raids is a good thing or not is another question, but until you can solve that I dont think you can "convince" the Blizz team with arguments of "what about this", because the change is targeted at a very complex problem that they have zeroed in on and the collateral damage is taken into account.

  13. #153
    Orcboi NatePsy's Avatar
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    I strongly believe that it should remain optional going forward rather than forcing the loot setting upon guilds that don't wish to use it. Sure his argument about tier no longer being around is a valid excuse for personal loot but he forgets that we are getting weapons in place of tier now, and weapons are a big deal item that needs to be funnelled to the right members to help with progression, maximise the weapons potential with a player that will get the most out of it.

  14. #154
    Deleted
    i would love personal if you somehow prevented me from getting the same item from the same boss 2 weeks in a row, some kind of bad luck protection.

  15. #155
    I'm all for Personal Loot under following conditions:

    1) all dropped loot can be traded freely within loot-eligible group regardless of ilvl-upgrade-or-not or any other restriction
    2) set pieces drop as tokens (gone in BFA anyway)
    #MakeBlizzardGreatAgain

  16. #156
    Quote Originally Posted by schwarzkopf View Post
    Yep - that's to ensure that the choice is personal, and cannot be forced on you.
    What choice? You don't have a CHOICE when an item drops. When it's a 5 ilvl upgrade, but not an upgrade for your character, there is also no "choice" because you can't trade it away, and you also won't use it. It's a dead item.

  17. #157
    Quote Originally Posted by Zyky View Post
    You didn't mention being a mythic raider, I was asking for clarity if you weren't, guess that went over your head.
    Stopped reading after that. Maybe next time you shouldn’t go straight to defensive mode and then you’d be taken seriously. Personal loot is the future and has been leaning towards that for a while now. If you can’t accept that, we must not be playing the same game. This change will affect a small minority while positively impacting the general player base. The best part about personal loot is that the player has the option of giving up the piece he or she won instead of leadership deciding which of their friends receive the item.
    There are 10 types of people in this world, those who understand binary and those who don't..

  18. #158
    People don't get it, do they? this is only going to improve things, as guilds won't be able to do splitraids anymore.

    On the other hand you can still run loot council almost the same way you did by having people exchanging items in the raid. Yes its not optimal as you can't trade anything that is not lower than your current best slot but still in a guild you'd want people to get the best in slot.

    Now if you have a guild that some people raid once a week for example and they get quite lucky with the drops and can't trade to others then well... just manage your guild better.

    I don't find it as a downside at all, its an upgrade to the game in general I'd say. The game isn't what it used to be and its alright to realise that. After all if you haven't understood that you play diablo3 in a bigger version and being able to group with more than 4-5 people, thats all it is to wow nowadays. If you haven't then you should start realising it.

  19. #159
    Personal loot should be the only option for pugs. Who misses pug leaders ninja'ing or reserving shit?
    But yeah in organized raiding ml should be allowed and I don't think it's going away anytime soon. But even if it does get removed, it's gonna make splitruns less common which is always a good thing.
    Last edited by Ashkiman; 2018-03-17 at 08:14 AM.

  20. #160
    Quote Originally Posted by tratra View Post
    People don't get it, do they? this is only going to improve things, as guilds won't be able to do splitraids anymore.

    On the other hand you can still run loot council almost the same way you did by having people exchanging items in the raid. Yes its not optimal as you can't trade anything that is not lower than your current best slot but still in a guild you'd want people to get the best in slot.

    Now if you have a guild that some people raid once a week for example and they get quite lucky with the drops and can't trade to others then well... just manage your guild better.

    I don't find it as a downside at all, its an upgrade to the game in general I'd say. The game isn't what it used to be and its alright to realise that. After all if you haven't understood that you play diablo3 in a bigger version and being able to group with more than 4-5 people, thats all it is to wow nowadays. If you haven't then you should start realising it.
    We discussed this in our guild last night and one of the officers was opposed to the change but everyone else that was present was happy for this change. I definitely agree with what you’re saying here.
    There are 10 types of people in this world, those who understand binary and those who don't..

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