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  1. #321
    I am Murloc! Seramore's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Daish View Post
    why would any guild with a brain use Master loot over personal when the guild ends up with more loot by using personal
    because it's better on progression

    Quote Originally Posted by Bigbazz
    MMO champion for example used to be the center of WoW theorycrafting

  2. #322
    I don't see what much point there'd be in removing master loot. If they really think they have to do something extreme, just make it an option only if the raid group is comprised of mostly (like more than half, maybe?) guild members. Or make it the defacto if a group is done via group finder. I don't think that's necessary, though.

    Making personal loot the default for most things makes sense, though. But that's what it should be. A default option. An option. Don't remove other options. That's just silly.

  3. #323
    Quote Originally Posted by Onikaroshi View Post
    Lol... DKP... wtf kind of argument is that anyway? I refuse to use PL, I do not join pugs or guilds using personal loot, and if they remove it come BfA they have removed me as well, so.....

    Thats how loot was decided for a very very long time in this game in organized raiding. that and loot council both of whom can make it take forever for YOU to get your gear

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by Seramore View Post
    because it's better on progression
    actually it isnt unless you think gearing out your select group of officers in your guild first as the most important feature of your raids

  4. #324
    Quote Originally Posted by Otimus View Post
    I don't see what much point there'd be in removing master loot. If they really think they have to do something extreme, just make it an option only if the raid group is comprised of mostly (like more than half, maybe?) guild members. Or make it the defacto if a group is done via group finder. I don't think that's necessary, though.

    Making personal loot the default for most things makes sense, though. But that's what it should be. A default option. An option. Don't remove other options. That's just silly.
    Personal is actually the only option in groups less the 80% guild already.

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by araine View Post
    Thats how loot was decided for a very very long time in this game in organized raiding. that and loot council both of whom can make it take forever for YOU to get your gear
    If I were that worried about the loot "I" got then yes, but i'm not, I don't agree with magical in your bag loot, I want to SEE it on the boss and have it looted, this is an important part of raiding with a guild to me, important enough to quit over.


    Quote Originally Posted by araine View Post
    actually it isnt unless you think gearing out your select group of officers in your guild first as the most important feature of your raids

    You've obviously never done World/Realm First progression then, where loot goes matters just as much as what loot drops. You DO NOT gear Tanks and healers over dps in progression raiding and you DO NOT give your trials super awesome BiS trinket over a core member, because you don't know if that trial will mesh with you or you will mesh with them.

  5. #325
    Mechagnome Gevoth's Avatar
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    The irony here.

    This is supposedly to stop loot funneling.

    Raid of 30 leather wearers.
    Raid of 30 plate wearers.
    Raid w/ 28 mail wearers and 2 tanks.
    Raid w/ 28 cloth wearers and 2 tanks.

    Funneling is much more effective w/o tier.

    So now we have 2 questions.

    Is blizzard full of shit? Or are they stupid?

  6. #326
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    Quote Originally Posted by Gevoth View Post
    The irony here.

    This is supposedly to stop loot funneling.

    Raid of 30 leather wearers.
    Raid of 30 plate wearers.
    Raid w/ 28 mail wearers and 2 tanks.
    Raid w/ 28 cloth wearers and 2 tanks.

    Funneling is much more effective w/o tier.

    So now we have 2 questions.

    Is blizzard full of shit? Or are they stupid?
    You won't be able to trade those items unless they have a higher item level than what you already have. Without legendaries and with a reduced chance to titanforge, that won't be the case, especially at the release of a new tier. So good luck with your 30 leather wearers, they won't be able to trade a damn thing.

  7. #327
    Quote Originally Posted by By the Emperor View Post
    You won't be able to trade those items unless they have a higher item level than what you already have. Without legendaries and with a reduced chance to titanforge, that won't be the case, especially at the release of a new tier. So good luck with your 30 leather wearers, they won't be able to trade a damn thing.
    Instead you just take the luckiest. Or... you know, account share because top guilds NEVER do that.

  8. #328
    I am Murloc! Seramore's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by araine View Post
    actually it isnt unless you think gearing out your select group of officers in your guild first as the most important feature of your raids
    You must never have been in a serious raiding guild. Most guilds don't gear officers or "select groups" first, they gear priority classes/specs for progression first. Or as you said, the most important feature(s) of your raids when it comes down to killing bosses efficiently.

    Quote Originally Posted by Bigbazz
    MMO champion for example used to be the center of WoW theorycrafting

  9. #329
    Mechagnome Gevoth's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by By the Emperor View Post
    You won't be able to trade those items unless they have a higher item level than what you already have. Without legendaries and with a reduced chance to titanforge, that won't be the case, especially at the release of a new tier. So good luck with your 30 leather wearers, they won't be able to trade a damn thing.
    NM it's the TF and legendaries that get the ilvl up and cause the problem in your opinion I see.
    Last edited by Gevoth; 2018-03-17 at 07:29 PM.

  10. #330
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    Quote Originally Posted by Seramore View Post
    Gear trading is an option, but it only really works later in the tier, in other words it'll work exactly like people are doing now. The loss of ML will only significantly impact the first few weeks/months of a tier because people won't be able to trade gear due to the way gear trading works (you can only trade items if it's not an ilvl upgrade). It'll be a problem for a lot of guilds during progression.
    People shouldnt call everything a problem. Giving the 985 item to the warlock doing 1% less dps on average isn't that bad. And actually, many raids distributed their loot anyways wrong (personal preferences instead of raid progress).

  11. #331
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    Quote Originally Posted by Gevoth View Post
    You mean the system that is currently already in place and doesn't stop split farming?
    On live you have legendary items which means you can trade any item drop from that slot.
    On live the chance of titanforging is a lot higher than it will be in BFA, so chances are you already have an item with higher item level, allowing you to trade an item drop.
    In BFA we'll have weapons rather than relics which can only warforge to +10, further limiting the number of items you can trade.

    So no, even if the split-raid were to use personal loot on live it won't be the same thing as in BFA. I've been lead to believe that split-runs use master loot however, which is the topic of this discussion.

  12. #332
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    Quote Originally Posted by Seramore View Post
    You must never have been in a serious raiding guild. Most guilds don't gear officers or "select groups" first, they gear priority classes/specs for progression first. Or as you said, the most important feature(s) of your raids when it comes down to killing bosses efficiently.
    Come on. I am in a good raiding guild and i profited several times from being one of the strongest dps in my raid and personal preference.

    But i think personal loot is more fair. You can still distribute if the item isnt higher ilvl. And personal loot offers more items.

    PErsonal preference always was and always will be a thing - unless you have a really good loot council.

  13. #333
    Quote Originally Posted by andy123456 View Post
    what PL cannot be traded , give example.
    I have a ilvl 200 Crit/Mastery weapon (because weapon drops will be a thing again). I get a 205 Haste/Versa weapon which is inferior to the one I'm using. Using current PL loot I cannot trade this to another player that has a 175 weapon and could really use a new one. Or I could get a ilvl 205 chest that is worse than my current 195 chest because it has different stats/Azerite powers. Again, cannot trade it.

    There is no reason to get rid of Master Loot. Personal is good for pugs, but for guilds you want maximum control on who gets the loot. And it's not like loot councils will cease to exist anyway; if Player A gets something that is an upgrade for them but can be traded, LC will still take over to see if it's a bigger upgrade for someone else.

    As for getting rid of split runs, lulz. Not only is that such a small problem as to be close to insignificant, but guilds will just stack the fuck out of one class per run and choose whichever alt is the luckiest like they did for legendaries early in Legion.

  14. #334
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    Quote Originally Posted by Daish View Post
    why would any guild with a brain use Master loot over personal when the guild ends up with more loot by using personal
    Cause you can control who gets what and give stuff to guy who has 920, when that 960 item drops instead of the guy for who its higher ilvl but downgrade due stats or whatever not being able to use it and item being wasted.
    ANd in general giving to who the piece is bis for. And who gets most out like your best players, and in bfa with weapons being able to get your dps weapons over your tanks and healers.

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by Seramore View Post
    You must never have been in a serious raiding guild. Most guilds don't gear officers or "select groups" first, they gear priority classes/specs for progression first. Or as you said, the most important feature(s) of your raids when it comes down to killing bosses efficiently.
    this is true.

  15. #335
    Quote Originally Posted by By the Emperor View Post
    You won't be able to trade those items unless they have a higher item level than what you already have. Without legendaries and with a reduced chance to titanforge, that won't be the case, especially at the release of a new tier. So good luck with your 30 leather wearers, they won't be able to trade a damn thing.
    It just means that after the world first race is over, top guilds will expect their members to maintain raiding in order to get a ton of titanforged gear on multiple toons to continue split raids. It's an awful and stupid change.
    Cheerful lack of self-preservation

  16. #336
    Mechagnome Gevoth's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by By the Emperor View Post
    On live you have legendary items which means you can trade any item drop from that slot.
    On live the chance of titanforging is a lot higher than it will be in BFA, so chances are you already have an item with higher item level, allowing you to trade an item drop.
    In BFA we'll have weapons rather than relics which can only warforge to +10, further limiting the number of items you can trade.

    So no, even if the split-raid were to use personal loot on live it won't be the same thing as in BFA. I've been lead to believe that split-runs use master loot however, which is the topic of this discussion.
    Some good points about TF and legendaries currently affecting funneling. We'll have to agree to disagree about future efforts to funnel. If you are right and this does lengthen raid completion times I expect some entertaining backlash.

  17. #337
    I am Murloc! Seramore's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Klatar View Post
    Come on. I am in a good raiding guild and i profited several times from being one of the strongest dps in my raid and personal preference.

    But i think personal loot is more fair. You can still distribute if the item isnt higher ilvl. And personal loot offers more items.

    PErsonal preference always was and always will be a thing - unless you have a really good loot council.
    I wasn't even quoting you.

    Quote Originally Posted by Bigbazz
    MMO champion for example used to be the center of WoW theorycrafting

  18. #338
    Quote Originally Posted by Klatar View Post
    Come on. I am in a good raiding guild and i profited several times from being one of the strongest dps in my raid and personal preference.

    But i think personal loot is more fair. You can still distribute if the item isnt higher ilvl. And personal loot offers more items.

    PErsonal preference always was and always will be a thing - unless you have a really good loot council.
    Nobody has mentioned them decreasing ammount of loot if it switches to only PL. Do you think they would make it less loot if PL was the only thing? Or keep it as is

  19. #339
    What is the source of "can't trade loot from PL if it's higher than your ilvl in that slot"? I've never heard of that and we're trading PL pieces in my guild all the time

  20. #340
    I am Murloc! Seramore's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Azerate View Post
    What is the source of "can't trade loot from PL if it's higher than your ilvl in that slot"? I've never heard of that and we're trading PL pieces in my guild all the time
    source: playing the game and attempting to trade an item that's the highest item level piece that you have for that slot

    Quote Originally Posted by Bigbazz
    MMO champion for example used to be the center of WoW theorycrafting

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