can the purists agree on these changes?

[Xecks]

it is my belief if we all can agree on these and only these changes we would be better off with having our voices heard instead of spamming #nochanges.

heres the list:

bnet integration.
colorblind mode.
server and backend code updated to be able to run on the new hardware.
the current api cause legal bots are bad.
authenticator support.
gamebreaking bugs and exploits fixed.
whatever patch or progression patches they will make that also includes features that only happened in vanilla.
Edit: also updated security.

thats it though. no guild banks, no transmog, no class balance passes, ect.

what do you guys think?

[Echocho]

it is my belief if we all can agree on these and only these changes we would be better off with having our voices heard instead of spamming #nochanges.

heres the list:

bnet integration.
colorblind mode.
server and backend code updated to be able to run on the new hardware.
the current api cause legal bots are bad.
authenticator support.
gamebreaking bugs and exploits fixed.
whatever patch or progression patches they will make that also includes features that only happened in vanilla.

thats it though. no guild banks, no transmog, no class balance passes, ect.

what do you guys think?

Seems reasonable to me. I'd add client optimization and security patches too so it's on par with the Legion/BfA client and can use DX11 etc. If they want to tinker with the classes by using the different states they were in during vanilla I'd be fine with that too.

[Xecks]

Seems reasonable to me. I'd add client optimization and security patches too so it's on par with the Legion/BfA client and can use DX11 etc. If they want to tinker with the classes by using the different states they were in during vanilla I'd be fine with that too.

ya im just using a barebones list so we could start from a chosen agreement of things with room to wiggle either way.

[TheRainman]

I'm good with it

[Low Hanging Fruit]

it is my belief if we all can agree on these and only these changes we would be better off with having our voices heard instead of spamming #nochanges.

heres the list:

bnet integration.
colorblind mode.
server and backend code updated to be able to run on the new hardware.
the current api cause legal bots are bad.
authenticator support.
gamebreaking bugs and exploits fixed.
whatever patch or progression patches they will make that also includes features that only happened in vanilla.

thats it though. no guild banks, no transmog, no class balance passes, ect.

what do you guys think?

I could go with this. Pretty much what I said in one of the other threads just worded a little more elegantly.

[hulkgor]

it is my belief if we all can agree on these and only these changes we would be better off with having our voices heard instead of spamming #nochanges.

heres the list:

bnet integration.
colorblind mode.
server and backend code updated to be able to run on the new hardware.
the current api cause legal bots are bad.
authenticator support.
gamebreaking bugs and exploits fixed.
whatever patch or progression patches they will make that also includes features that only happened in vanilla.

thats it though. no guild banks, no transmog, no class balance passes, ect.

what do you guys think?

Most of those aren't even changes to the game. Authenticator, Bnet integration, server and backend? Also, bugs aren't features, regardless of what mindless drone keep spouting about.

the only changes above are colorblind mode (no brainer, 0 impact in gameplay), API changes (that might be iffy) and fixing bugs and exploits (no brainer, again, bugs aren't features).

[Unholyground]

This is pretty much what they have to do or it will fail hard.

[Xecks]

Most of those aren't even changes to the game. Authenticator, Bnet integration, server and backend? Also, bugs aren't features, regardless of what mindless drone keep spouting about.

the only changes above are colorblind mode (no brainer, 0 impact in gameplay), API changes (that might be iffy) and fixing bugs and exploits (no brainer, again, bugs aren't features).

game or not they are changes that people need to address when being honest about what is probably going to happen.
btw what do you mean by iffy about the api thing?

[Powerogue]

I'd add the postmaster. It's not so much a "feature" as a way of saving Blizzard employees hundreds of hours compensating for looting errors.

One thing I also don't think we had back then is the current interface's in-game simple, no-ticket bug reporting interface. A feature that will almost certainly be necessary due to the constant game of whack-a-mole when fiddling with spaghetti game code. Try to swap over to the modern API and suddenly orcs have their heads on backwards!

[Vineri]

Some of those "changes" were already announced by Blizzard. Namely BNet integration, backend updates to run on modern hardware, security (authenticator implied), bug & exploit fixes.

Other item to add to your list: A newer version of Warden, for bot and cheat detection.

[Deficineiron]

game or not they are changes that people need to address when being honest about what is probably going to happen.
btw what do you mean by iffy about the api thing?

what is probably going to happen is 1) the client will be modern client and much of what you list and much more will be integrated from ground up and 2) some of those wonderful retail features being argued about in this sub-forum will be enabled in classic, because the community demands it!

I suggest the folks who actually want classic should instead now lobby blizzard to release 'hardcore' or whatever name servers that actually are tuned and paced like classic and have much of the qol they plan to put in disabled (including multiple difficulties, for example).

[Xecks]

Some of those "changes" were already announced by Blizzard. Namely BNet integration, backend updates to run on modern hardware, security (authenticator implied), bug & exploit fixes.

Other item to add to your list: A newer version of Warden, for bot and cheat detection.

ya i should add in the new warden thing too.

[Echocho]

Most of those aren't even changes to the game. Authenticator, Bnet integration, server and backend? Also, bugs aren't features, regardless of what mindless drone keep spouting about.

the only changes above are colorblind mode (no brainer, 0 impact in gameplay), API changes (that might be iffy) and fixing bugs and exploits (no brainer, again, bugs aren't features).

Well they are changes to the game, or what do you mean? Most of these are reasonable in my mind, which is why you can (and should) never take anyone seriously who's answer to anything is "#nochanges".

[Deficineiron]

Well they are changes to the game, or what do you mean? Most of these are reasonable in my mind, which is why you can (and should) never take anyone seriously who's answer to anything is "#nochanges".

it is good for a forum to have someone who will reliably point out the most minute or arcane technicalities to drown any discussion in minutae and irrelevances. You were wise to catch on to the secret trick of trying to sneak old bugs into 'classic' when people say 'nochanges.' They were so clever too! they fooled me, I thought they were talking about gameplay stuff.

Shame on the nochangers for trying to subvert classic by importing bugs and hacks and bad stuff!

[Alkizon]

I'm good with it

the same, may be only would add more "security code" to game data files.

[Echocho]

it is good for a forum to have someone who will reliably point out the most minute or arcane technicalities to drown any discussion in minutae and irrelevances. You were wise to catch on to the secret trick of trying to sneak old bugs into 'classic' when people say 'nochanges.' They were so clever too! they fooled me, I thought they were talking about gameplay stuff.

Shame on the nochangers for trying to subvert classic by importing bugs and hacks and bad stuff!

I'm sure most of them don't actually want bugs but that's what they're saying when they say #nochanges. If they mean no gameplay changes they should say #nogameplaychanges, which to be fair I see a lot of people saying.

#nochanges implies absolutism. Same client, same bugs, same exploits, same everything.

[therealbowser]

In reality I'd like to think Purists want to have a traditional experience of the classic game. I don't think anything that doesn't impact gameplay -- IE authenticators, better cheat detection, etc -- could possibly be considered negative... but maybe there are some odd people out there that want to experience the worst parts of classic, too?

Some of the bugs are not purely negative, though. For instance, wall-walking, or one of my personal favorites (before it was patched in a later vanilla patch) where you could polymorph -> fire blasting players would leave a sheep corpse, etc. So you need to specify the bugs and what kind of bugs/exploits you are fixing. I do agree, for instance, that raid/progression exploits should be fixed but a lot of the other 'bugs' are part of the flavor of a traditional classic experience.

In general, one of the most memorable experiences of classic for me was how often and frequently the servers went down, and frankly... I'd rather pass on reliving that one, lol.

I think your post covers this, and I'm not necessarily the purist purist or anything (there are certain things, especially in the earlier classic patches, that I outright despised), but that's just my take on this.

[SoulSoBreezy]

I don't see a problem with changes that don't alter the in game experience. That one controversial thing that I'd want pushed is to have the infrastructure set to merge realms - Not CRZ, but permanent connections to low pop realms - to have ready as a just in case button.
IMO it'd be irresponsible for Blizzard to launch Classic with X realms for X population and not have anything like this in place IF there was a large enough outcry for it.

[Zydas]

Well there will be back end changes and API changes and other behind the scenes stuff. The game will run on the current wow server hardware https://www.pcgamer.com/this-is-how-...a-wow-servers/.

There's still people out there who think were gunna get a 1.12.1 client. It'll most likely be an option in the account drop-down menu in the blizzard app and run on the same client. Also some changes are going to have to happen for instance gear and instances will need the be retuned. I really doubt were gunna go through each patch. Were gunna get 1 set point which will be similar but not the same as 1.12.1 so new talents and gear at that point invalidate MC and BWL. It would be a shame to have no challenge in raiding for over a year because people refuse to allow things to be retuned to fit the original tuning before new gear and talents were added.

[Xecks]

I don't see a problem with changes that don't alter the in game experience. That one controversial thing that I'd want pushed is to have the infrastructure set to merge realms - Not CRZ, but permanent connections to low pop realms - to have ready as a just in case button.
IMO it'd be irresponsible for Blizzard to launch Classic with X realms for X population and not have anything like this in place IF there was a large enough outcry for it.

ya a server merger system that isnt cross realm in its current state but a full on server merge characters and all would be the most sane thing to do merging low pop to a higher pop or something where it fixes a faction imbalance when the tourists leave would be the best.

- - - Updated - - -

Well there will be back end changes and API changes and other behind the scenes stuff. The game will run on the current wow server hardware https://www.pcgamer.com/this-is-how-...a-wow-servers/.

There's still people out there who think were gunna get a 1.12.1 client. It'll most likely be an option in the account drop-down menu in the blizzard app and run on the same client. Also some changes are going to have to happen for instance gear and instances will need the be retuned. I really doubt were gunna go through each patch. Were gunna get 1 set point which will be similar but not the same as 1.12.1 so new talents and gear at that point invalidate MC and BWL. It would be a shame to have no challenge in raiding for over a year because people refuse to allow things to be retuned to fit the original tuning before new gear and talents were added.

this one im not sure of. we would all have to talk about what patch or patches or franken patch would be right. i am for at least a progression patch system for the content like raids and dungeons that were released.

as far as balance goes i am not sure that it will make the raids any less ez due to the fact that the mechanics alone are such that they lend themselves to being ez once you get the mechanics down. gear or tuning or not it will be ez to do mc and to a lesser extent bwl. one would argue if they are ez then more people might stay and keep raiding when they can get gear easier.