Master Loot being purged?

[RobertoCarlos]

Blizzard do what Blizzard do. Remember they killed like 100s of guilds to "balance" mythic raiding "better" by cutting the 10 man option. This isn't outside of their scope. That was to better the game for about 2-3% of the raiders at the top. Although I doubt this would kill many guilds. It would mostly just lead to a lot of loot whores flipping out and quitting. Maybe a few guilds will suffer along the way.

They are just simply extending the time required to get gear, IE increase play time.

The legendary trinket in the latest raid was a crude example of how far they have fallen to artificially inflate game time.

[Low Hanging Fruit]

They are just simply extending the time required to get gear, IE increase play time.

The legendary trinket in the latest raid was a crude example of how far they have fallen to artificially inflate game time.

No doubt. It has been the story of legion in a nutshell and will continue forward. Time gates, resource gates, rep grinds, leggos, and AP are all pretty much examples of you needing to stay subbed or falling behind. It got a LOT better in the last couple patches but its obviously because its the content gap and they want to encourage alts and such as, again, a another way to extend player subs.

[RobertoCarlos]

No doubt. It has been the story of legion in a nutshell and will continue forward. Time gates, resource gates, rep grinds, leggos, and AP are all pretty much examples of you needing to stay subbed or falling behind. It got a LOT better in the last couple patches but its obviously because its the content gap and they want to encourage alts and such as, again, a another way to extend player subs.

Yeah exactly. Last few patches helped but once the last raid is out the game is essentially in maintenance mode till the next expansion so why not restrict the leash a little bit and promote catch up mechanics to bring back old players or people new to legion while the full timers still collect their mounts and what not to polish off the expansion. Can always run old raids for something to do! Oh wait they already nerfed that with PL and made it harder with a stat squish again. Oh well! Keep trying for those tusk shoulders from siege of org kiddo!

[Nefarious Tea]

What is the source of "can't trade loot from PL if it's higher than your ilvl in that slot"? I've never heard of that and we're trading PL pieces in my guild all the time

Do keep in mind that a legendary in the bank counts for that slot, so even if you have say 915 gloves equipped and 915 gloves drop, if you have an ilvl 1000 legendary gloves in the bank you can trade the 945s.

[gaymer77]

What many of you don't seem to understand is that with personal loot there is actually MORE loot that drops per raid than with master loot. Yes I understand that if the item you get is a higher item level that what you currently have equipped that you can't trade it to anyone else but realistically that's not going to happen in BfA. Many times currently that happens is because of breaking tier set bonuses that are way OP compared to the current tier set bonuses. In BfA there are not set bonuses or tier sets to worry about. All you have to do is equip the piece with the best stats for you.

[Onikaroshi]

What many of you don't seem to understand is that with personal loot there is actually MORE loot that drops per raid than with master loot. Yes I understand that if the item you get is a higher item level that what you currently have equipped that you can't trade it to anyone else but realistically that's not going to happen in BfA. Many times currently that happens is because of breaking tier set bonuses that are way OP compared to the current tier set bonuses. In BfA there are not set bonuses or tier sets to worry about. All you have to do is equip the piece with the best stats for you.

And what some of you don't understand is that it doesn't matter if PL were to drop 2x the gear and send us checks in the mail, it still wouldn't be good for certain things like progression raiding or, in my case, feel like guild raiding.

[Nefarious Tea]

What many of you don't seem to understand is that with personal loot there is actually MORE loot that drops per raid than with master loot. Yes I understand that if the item you get is a higher item level that what you currently have equipped that you can't trade it to anyone else but realistically that's not going to happen in BfA. Many times currently that happens is because of breaking tier set bonuses that are way OP compared to the current tier set bonuses. In BfA there are not set bonuses or tier sets to worry about. All you have to do is equip the piece with the best stats for you.

One more item. You get a single piece of loot extra, per boss. A raid of twenty people will get five pieces of loot instead of four.

Hardly worth it for most bosses.

[RobertoCarlos]

What many of you don't seem to understand is that with personal loot there is actually MORE loot that drops per raid than with master loot. Yes I understand that if the item you get is a higher item level that what you currently have equipped that you can't trade it to anyone else but realistically that's not going to happen in BfA. Many times currently that happens is because of breaking tier set bonuses that are way OP compared to the current tier set bonuses. In BfA there are not set bonuses or tier sets to worry about. All you have to do is equip the piece with the best stats for you.

I cant wait till you spend an entire raid tier not getting the one trinket you want. Thats PL potentially for you.

[Marrilaife]

Gotta love how people think no split raiding = no problem while top guilds will just hardswitch to nolifing m+ as it gives loot nearly equal to hc raiding, in unlimited quantities, and without tier there are only raid trinkets left as any form of incentive to raid for gear, otherwise m+ all the way and you can tailor the team for preferential loot trading. Titanforging will still be a thing as Blizzard announced, except on azerite pieces and weapons (weapons can still warforge though). M+ has also the advantage you don't need 7 alts to farm all day, it can be done on 1 toon. So much easier expansion start.

Killing split raiding means next to nothing in the world where raid tier sets don't exist, but mythic+ does.

[ryuke09]

Gotta say, it looks real damn sloppy on Blizzard's part that they haven't clarified EXACTLY what the state of ML will be given the vagueness of what was said. If your changing a part of the game that's been a core part of raiding for almost 15 years you better be crystal clear with your communication. Hopefully something will be posted sooner rather then later that's clears up the uncertainty, regardless of ML actually being removed or not.

Assuming ML is gone...Gotta say that sounds really awful having that control taken away. (Coming from an Officer on a semi-casual Mythic Guild)

See we aren't crazy enough to do split-runs (probably quit before doing that shit) but when it comes to farming Heroics we tend to grab a handful of random non-core guildies for raids and this does 2 mutually beneficial things;

it lets some more casual raiders do the raids with us, and so long as they aren't too awful in DPS/Healing or raid mechanics we don't mind carrying a bit. So they can have fun doing the raid and getting loot the Core-raid doesn't need. Great

AND it pads the raid size for the Core's, making the bosses drop more loot which makes it more likely for that trinket or a good Titan Forge or whatever for said Core. Win Win.

No ML means there is no reason for us to do that, so basically this decision will incentivize guilds to be WAY more strict with who we let in, there's ZERO reason for us to carry people because we get no benefit from it.

PS: That quote about only using ML for Primarily Tier gear sounds almost like a joke to me...i honestly do not understand where the hell they got that idea. I spend Far more time arguing who should get trinkets over who gets tier gear and TF pieces will have just as much discussion on a loot council...fucking bizarre as all hell

[gaymer77]

And what some of you don't understand is that it doesn't matter if PL were to drop 2x the gear and send us checks in the mail, it still wouldn't be good for certain things like progression raiding or, in my case, feel like guild raiding.

So in order for you to feel like you're in a raiding guild you have to have someone dictate to you who gets what gear by setting it to master looter (which isn't going away btw)? In order for you to feel like you belong you have to let someone else tell you that you can have a piece of gear instead of potentially getting it from looting the boss yourself (again master loot isn't being purged)?

One more item. You get a single piece of loot extra, per boss. A raid of twenty people will get five pieces of loot instead of four.

Hardly worth it for most bosses.

So in a raid of 20 people in a 8 boss raid that's 40 pieces of loot compared to 32 pieces of loot and means that potentially 8 more upgrades for people yet that ISN'T a good thing?

I cant wait till you spend an entire raid tier not getting the one trinket you want. Thats PL potentially for you.

I've gone 3 months without getting a single piece of gear from a raid because none of them were upgrades for me. I think I'll be fine. Also if you're worried about a trinket that might drop there's raid finder in addition to your normal raids. Exact same trinket will drop in raid finder that drops in normal+ but the difference will be slightly lower stats on it. If that OP proc from that "must have" trinket is so great, the raid finder version should be an upgrade from the one you had on wouldn't you say?

[RobertoCarlos]

I've gone 3 months without getting a single piece of gear from a raid because none of them were upgrades for me. I think I'll be fine. Also if you're worried about a trinket that might drop there's raid finder in addition to your normal raids. Exact same trinket will drop in raid finder that drops in normal+ but the difference will be slightly lower stats on it. If that OP proc from that "must have" trinket is so great, the raid finder version should be an upgrade from the one you had on wouldn't you say?

Yeah farming multiple raid difficulties for one item, sounds like fun! Sign me up. Seriously are you suggesting this is good game design somehow?

[ryuke09]

Yeah farming multiple raid difficulties for one item, sounds like fun! Sign me up. Seriously are you suggesting this is good game design somehow?

Convergence of Fate says hi!

[Low Hanging Fruit]

Gotta say, it looks real damn sloppy on Blizzard's part that they haven't clarified EXACTLY what the state of ML will be given the vagueness of what was said. If your changing a part of the game that's been a core part of raiding for almost 15 years you better be crystal clear with your communication. Hopefully something will be posted sooner rather then later that's clears up the uncertainty, regardless of ML actually being removed or not.

Assuming ML is gone...Gotta say that sounds really awful having that control taken away. (Coming from an Officer on a semi-casual Mythic Guild)

See we aren't crazy enough to do split-runs (probably quit before doing that shit) but when it comes to farming Heroics we tend to grab a handful of random non-core guildies for raids and this does 2 mutually beneficial things;

it lets some more casual raiders do the raids with us, and so long as they aren't too awful in DPS/Healing or raid mechanics we don't mind carrying a bit. So they can have fun doing the raid and getting loot the Core-raid doesn't need. Great

AND it pads the raid size for the Core's, making the bosses drop more loot which makes it more likely for that trinket or a good Titan Forge or whatever for said Core. Win Win.

No ML means there is no reason for us to do that, so basically this decision will incentivize guilds to be WAY more strict with who we let in, there's ZERO reason for us to carry people because we get no benefit from it.

PS: That quote about only using ML for Primarily Tier gear sounds almost like a joke to me...i honestly do not understand where the hell they got that idea. I spend Far more time arguing who should get trinkets over who gets tier gear and TF pieces will have just as much discussion on a loot council...fucking bizarre as all hell

I guess when you look at people as only a resource for your own means you have a point. When my guild brings friends and families into the heroic runs its mostly because.. well.. you know.. they are friends and family. I get the feeling this possibly toxic (not saying you are toxic, but its obvious how it could be seen as such) behavior is part of what they are trying to stop. You know just having people in your guild so you can pad up heroic numbers to get more loot for the "real" team.

If I happen to get a TF or something on these heroic runs I am happy sure. But if some guys brother gets a TF trinket and it never sees mythic progressions I won't get into wrist slitting territory. If those extra item levels on one player are all that stand against us and a kill than we likely have bigger issues.

[Onikaroshi]

So in order for you to feel like you're in a raiding guild you have to have someone dictate to you who gets what gear by setting it to master looter (which isn't going away btw)? In order for you to feel like you belong you have to let someone else tell you that you can have a piece of gear instead of potentially getting it from looting the boss yourself (again master loot isn't being purged)?

The act of seeing all the loot on the boss and having your ML hand it out is a major thing that makes raiding for me, yes. I don't like looting a boss and having the game put loot in my bag. I absolutely despise that fact of PL.

And "Would it be a reasonable assumption that PL would be the only loot method going forward for current content"

Ion: "Yes, that would be a reasonable assumption"

Is about as close to a confirmation that ML is going away as you're going to get, them not refuting the threads on the main forums or saying he misspoke is another red flag.

[ryuke09]

I guess when you look at people as only a resource for your own means you have a point. When my guild brings friends and families into the heroic runs its mostly because.. well.. you know.. they are friends and family. I get the feeling this possibly toxic (not saying you are toxic, but its obvious how it could be seen as such) behavior is part of what they are trying to stop. You know just having people in your guild so you can pad up heroic numbers to get more loot for the "real" team.

If I happen to get a TF or something on these heroic runs I am happy sure. But if some guys brother gets a TF trinket and it never sees mythic progressions I won't get into wrist slitting territory. If those extra item levels on one player are all that stand against us and a kill than we likely have bigger issues.

Never said anything about not letting Friends or family hence "random non-core", probably should have added "Or you know them personally" to the end there. Still gonna screw over the people who DON'T know anyone personally in the Core/Officer roles.

[gaymer77]

The act of seeing all the loot on the boss and having your ML hand it out is a major thing that makes raiding for me, yes. I don't like looting a boss and having the game put loot in my bag. I absolutely despise that fact of PL.

And "Would it be a reasonable assumption that PL would be the only loot method going forward for current content"

Ion: "Yes, that would be a reasonable assumption"

Is about as close to a confirmation that ML is going away as you're going to get, them not refuting the threads on the main forums or saying he misspoke is another red flag.

Did they say they were REMOVING IT? Don't think he did. They were discussing high end guilds and how they use ML and split raids because of gear feeds to give certain classes/players/roles tier pieces first. They were discussing how these high end guilds will probably switch to PL since it makes more sense with the removal of tier set bonuses. If a guild really wants to do ML still they can. They aren't removing it. It just makes no sense to use it going forward from BfA because of the removal of tiers and gearing someone out before someone else.

[Onikaroshi]

Did they say they were REMOVING IT? Don't think he did. They were discussing high end guilds and how they use ML and split raids because of gear feeds to give certain classes/players/roles tier pieces first. They were discussing how these high end guilds will probably switch to PL since it makes more sense with the removal of tier set bonuses. If a guild really wants to do ML still they can. They aren't removing it. It just makes no sense to use it going forward from BfA because of the removal of tiers and gearing someone out before someone else.

Believe what you want, the reason we make a stink is to guarantee them not removing it. He also goes on later to state wanting to kill splits which he somehow believes personal will (it won't)

And Tier was not what was keeping top end from using it, don't know why anyone would even think that. Inability to direct where loot goes is what was keeping and will ALWAYS keep top end from using PL.

[gaymer77]

Believe what you want, the reason we make a stink is to guarantee them not removing it. He also goes on later to state wanting to kill splits which he somehow believes personal will (it won't)

And Tier was not what was keeping top end from using it, don't know why anyone would even think that. Inability to direct where loot goes is what was keeping and will ALWAYS keep top end from using PL.

So what is stopping these top end guilds from using personal loot & requiring their members to funnel gear to other people they decide that it should go to (other than the small situation where it is 1 ilvl higher than what they have already)? I can't tell you how many times I've ran raids with my guild with personal loot and gave gear to other people including tier tokens because it was better for them than me. My guildmates were the same way too. If it was better for someone else, we gave it away.

[Revamp Man]

I cant wait till you spend an entire raid tier not getting the one trinket you want. Thats PL potentially for you.

or like the thing that happened to me in en

Bis neck for fire mage drops...i couldnt trade because it was a higher ilvl sso i DEd it