Father sues Boy Scouts for rejecting son, with Down syndrome, autism as Eagle Scout

[Deleted]

Eh? So someone cant earn the needed badges to become an eagle scout. So he isnt made Eagle Scout?! Where are the pitchforks!

Holy shit people these days. Lets give everyone participation PHD's aswell. And then be mad because someone isnt actually made a doctor.

the issue is that they DID give him the badges, and they DID approve his eagle scout project. On a local level, the national branch then overruled that.

The local leader shouldnt have given him anything to begin with, let him come along and be a part but dont give out merits unfairly earned if you know the national branch wont approve.

And now that local leader will cost them money, because he did a wrong thing to a kid who cant understand that he didnt actually earned what they said he earned.

[Deleted]

No discrimination was involved...... If anything, the kid was pandered to and given extra special treatment, which is pretty much the exact opposite of discrimination. It is also not discrimination to not give someone an award that they did not earn.

For the love of...

Yes, and pandering to someone can lead to traumatic experiances, as is the case for this kid. He has autism, he doesnt understand why all his percieved effort is now being stripped from him, and will require counseling and aid to get over it, such things cost money.

So thanks to the local leader, they will most likely get sued for trying to be nice by doing the wrong thing.

[Aurrora]

They're still part of the same organization. So your entire rambling is pointless and invalid.

Hardly. The people that review whether someone has earned something at the local level are generally the parents of the children participating.

[Surfd]

They're still part of the same organization. So your entire rambling is pointless and invalid.

And local courts and the supreme court are still part of the American Judiciary System, yet the Supreme Court quite often overrules the verdicts of lower courts. Same thing happened here. Local court made one decision, higher ups over turned it.

[Deleted]

Yes, at the local level there was no discrimination. When the higher ups came in and revoked everything then there was discrimination. At the very least, they should have given him a chance to finish his current project. If he's capable of doing the current project to become an eagle scout, who gives a fuck about his cooking badge?

To be fair here, if the local leader had checked with the national level they propably would have adjusted the merits to things that the kid could actually do. As stated earlier, they do this with other disabilities.

The national branch followed their own rules, the local branch did the kid a disfavour by trying to be nice to him, rules are rules in society, and sadly such apply even when its a kid that doesnt understand the concept of such things.

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And local courts and the supreme court are still part of the American Judiciary System, yet the Supreme Court quite often overrules the verdicts of lower courts. Same thing happened here. Local court made one decision, higher ups over turned it.

More like, local court didnt check the law before making its decision and the higher ups had to fix their shit.

Seriously, if the local leader had just worked with the national branch from the start, it propably would've worked out fine. Instead they acted on their own behalf and now a kid has to suffer needlessly for it.

[Surfd]

Yes, at the local level there was no discrimination. When the higher ups came in and revoked everything then there was discrimination. At the very least, they should have given him a chance to finish his current project. If he's capable of doing the current project to become an eagle scout, who gives a fuck about his cooking badge?

Are you fucking serious? There was no discrimination. It is not discriminatory to fail someone because they didn't pass their t est on their own. That's literally what this is. The kid was fast tracked through several awards that he never actually qualified for, all of which are required to earn an Eagle Scout certification. When his local chapter attempted to qualify him for the award and the people who mark the test discovered that the kid basically did not qualify for ANY of the per-requisites, because he had been basically given them, and not actually earned them himself, they denied his application.

If that qualifies as discriminatory, then people should be able to their teachers for failing them for cheating on a test.
It is not discriminatory to take something from someone who did not properly earn it in the first place.

[Deleted]

Go ahead and tell us you're not a liberal. We'll wait. We don't expect you to understand logic.



Sure. Sue the LOCAL CHAPTER who fucked the kid over by giving him meaningless badges he didn't earn. Maybe we should sue Augusta because when some idiot illegally makes him a fake green jacket that violates their trademark and Augusta prevents them from awarding it to him.

... Liberals are right... I know America thinks they are leftist, but they really really arent.

Regardless, this has nothing to do with being a liberal, or whatever you need to label people you dont agree with as. It has to do with the fact that the kid took the beating here, and understanding that.

Also the local chapter is just a branch of the national one, they most likely have a central funding, so you probably cant sue just one part of a big organization....

To be honest, your lack of ability to understand others point of view says more about your inability to think logicall than Nexx226s'. If you have to go there.

[Surfd]

Why would they sue the ones who were nice to the kid? They're not the ones causing emotional trauma.

But they are. They gave the kid awards he didn't earn. They then tried to, in good faith mind you, apply the kid for a NATIONAL LEVEL award that they should have known he was completely unqualified to earn. The local branch are the ones who set the kid up to fail, not the National level guys who actually failed him because he didn't meet the required standards.

[Deleted]

Discrimination is not a bad thing. Get your head out of your libtard ass. Discrimination is how the world functions. You don't get to graduate with a Ph.D. just because you're retarded. You actually have to MASTER THE SUBJECT MATTER. Discrimination is how you can be sure your doctor is qualified to treat you. Discrimination is how you know the restaurant is safe to eat at.

Discrimination is not a bad word. Stop treating it like it is.

... Seriously? Discrimination is : The unjust mistreatment of someone due to circumstances outside their control.


The other stuff? That is informed choice, informed decision making and having to earn your rank.


No one calls it discrimination when someone fails their medical exam due to lack of knowleadge, however if they're failed despite having passed the knowleadge requirement for say... Being a woman, then its discrimination.

Discrimination is unjustly treating someone.

In this case, I agree with you, this isnt discrimination, this is an unfortunate misscommunication by the local leader and he or she is the one at fault, the national branch isnt being discriminatory, they are following the rules.

But discrimination is NEVER a good thing, learn the definintion of words you use. How would you like it if you were denied work simply for who you are, instead of your experise and work ethics?.

[Icaras]

Coming in late here but...I think I side with the Scouts in this one.

The kid can completely take part in activties and interact with the otehr scouts in his troop, and ultimately, the eagle scout rank is something that must be earned, it isn't just a given that you get it just for being there.

I think it's fair that if there are certain requirements and he skipped those requirements that he be deemed not eligible. What's next, he gets the rank and then his buddy that never bothered says "What about me? I did everything the same as him, why don't I get made eagle scout?" And what of the eagle scouts that DID go through the effort of fully and properly earning that rank, you could argue that tarnishes their accomplishments....are they now within their righst to sue the boy and father because they caused this?

It's questions like that that I feel the easiest answer is "If he can't earn by the rules that are the same for everyone else, tough shit. He's not being left out and no one gets special rule exemptions, he shouldn't either".

[Surfd]

If the test doesn't adequately accommodate for a protected group or their is no reasonable alternative than that is literally discrimination. Of course, this only applies to when you would expect said group to perform as well as the majority. So, something like an academic test wouldn't be the same. Shit that doesn't matter like the eagle scouts though? There should be a reasonable alternative.

Really? So your entire arguement boils down to "we should just patronize him and give him a prestigious award because, in my opinion, it doesn't matter"? I guarantee you that to all the people who legitimately earned it, it does matter. And just because you don't think the award is meaningful, does not magically make it so.

[De Lupe]

I was aware it was a question. It being legal or not is irrelevant. Which is why it's a dumb question. That's what I was referring to. The legality of it doesn't matter in a civil lawsuit.

Didn't know that. Now I do. Probably won't remember it in the morning because I don't really care, but for the moment, you may have the credit for educating me on the topic.

My other point still stands though. Don't reward the kid for stuff he didn't (or can't) do. They made concessions to let him in the scouts, and that's fine. Being a base level scout doesn't require anything special, but do not diminish the effort and work the other kids had to do to get their Eagle rank by just handing it out to a kid because he can play with dough (or whatever menial badges they gave him.) If he wants the Eagle rank, he has to do the Eagle work.

[Deleted]

You realize "understanding" someone's point of view means you think it's logical with the premises they believe that you disagree with, right?

So you agree with a rapists' premises?

Okay overall I'm on your side in this, but what?

His example is disjointed from yours, agreed. But what he is saying is different, he is going for the notion that he understands how a rapist might rationalize his behaviour, however he disagrees with their train of thought. As in, he thinks what they are doing is wrong, understandable, but wrong.

What I tried to point out, that there is a point of view here that needs to be in focus, and that is the harm done to the kid. And the local chapter caused said harm by handing him badges that he didnt earn, he should've worked with the national branch to see if they could make some accomendations for the kid, otherwise let him participate but not earn badges.

You are however right in that there is no sueing the local branch, as their funding comes from the national level most likely and as such the entire organisation will be sued, not just the local part. However considering how many powerful people in the US that are eagle scouts, I do think now that the lawsuit might... get tricky.

Regardless, he misunderstood me and you seem to have twisted his intention in return.

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Coming in late here but...I think I side with the Scouts in this one.

The kid can completely take part in activties and interact with the otehr scouts in his troop, and ultimately, the eagle scout rank is something that must be earned, it isn't just a given that you get it just for being there.

I think it's fair that if there are certain requirements and he skipped those requirements that he be deemed not eligible. What's next, he gets the rank and then his buddy that never bothered says "What about me? I did everything the same as him, why don't I get made eagle scout?" And what of the eagle scouts that DID go through the effort of fully and properly earning that rank, you could argue that tarnishes their accomplishments....are they now within their righst to sue the boy and father because they caused this?

It's questions like that that I feel the easiest answer is "If he can't earn by the rules that are the same for everyone else, tough shit. He's not being left out and no one gets special rule exemptions, he shouldn't either".

Agreed, however they failed that. They gave him merits, and approved his eagle scout project. And then they took all of that away from him, something the kid cant understand. And as such, damage has been done to the kid, damage he cant comprehend and will need counseling for.... So yeah, they might get sued.

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Didn't know that. Now I do. Probably won't remember it in the morning because I don't really care, but for the moment, you may have the credit for educating me on the topic.

My other point still stands though. Don't reward the kid for stuff he didn't (or can't) do. They made concessions to let him in the scouts, and that's fine. Being a base level scout doesn't require anything special, but do not diminish the effort and work the other kids had to do to get their Eagle rank by just handing it out to a kid because he can play with dough (or whatever menial badges they gave him.) If he wants the Eagle rank, he has to do the Eagle work.

Well see my above point, I agree he shouldnt have been given merits, but they did give him mertis, to a kid who is incapable to understand why they've now taken those merits and promise of eagle scout away from him.

The local chapter fucked up.

[gaymer77]

Just handing it out to him for doing something that doesn’t meet their standards only promotes more people coming in and saying “well, he got it so I should too”.

Quite frankly, had they not done this nobody would have really known a kid with special needs earned eagle scout. This wouldn't have cause a massive influx of special needs kids joining the scouts to get eagle scout.

Yup. They had no problem with him being in the Scouts, but they aren't handing out free "pity doctorates" to anyone who wants them but did not earn them. I don't believe Harvard does that either.

Funny how you mention giving out stuff that people didn't earn. My senior year of high a girl discovered she had an inoperable brain tumor and would most likely die before graduation. Even though she did not meet the requirements set forth by both the state of California and the school district, they gave her a high school diploma 2 months before she did pass. She had not earned it yet they gave it to her. Schools across the nation also give certificates of completion & allow special ed students to walk with their graduating class EVERY SINGLE YEAR.

Yeah, we let them do a few things to raise their spirits and we give them participation rewards and applauds. We don’t send them to finals.

Same shit here.

And you think him getting eagle scout wouldn't raise his spirits? Do you honestly think getting eagle scout is this big deal in the grand scheme of life? What real rewards does it give a kid? Nothing that's what. BSA strung this kid along and gave him badges so he thought he could get eagle scout. He did everything they asked of him and at the last minute national changed everything.

Sure. Sue the LOCAL CHAPTER who fucked the kid over by giving him meaningless badges he didn't earn. Maybe we should sue Augusta because when some idiot illegally makes him a fake green jacket that violates their trademark and Augusta prevents them from awarding it to him.

Two totally different situations there. You would sue the company who made the fake jacket instead of Augusta & more than likely Augusta would sue them too for trademark infringement. BSA is one organization/business with many different local chapters. A better comparison would be slipping and falling at your local Walmart and suing Walmart because that is the parent company. Or getting hit in the face by your boss at Abercrombie & Fitch while on the job in the back room. You don't sue the boss or local store, you sue the parent company who owns everything.

[Krawu]

Is this how society is going to work now? You take a kid that is completely incapable of accomplishing a task, and sue someone because they won't award them something they can't earn?

That kid has both downs AND is autistic? That mother fucker is going to be sucking up social support the rest of his freaking life, making the Eagle Scouts is the LEAST of that father's concern.

I'm mostly on board with this. They made the effort of accommodating him, and he gets to participate in whatever activities he can. But not everything is just a participation prize.

I'm not that worried about the kid ultimately costing the tax payer money, because that's what social programs and public health care should ultimately be for: if someone needs help, they get it.

But I don't see why someone who, according to the article, can't even pour a cup of flour correctly should get any badge if they don't meet the requirements for it. It's the same with every other kid. If they can't do the task that's required, they get no badge.

Fact of the matter is we live in a meritocracy and the boy scouts, whatever opinion one may have of the organization, awards these badges based on merit.
If humanity didn't operate that way we'd still be sitting around caves hitting rocks with rocks and collecting berries. A disabled child may have the right to participate the same as everyone else, but they don't have the right to awards and honors they didn't earn.

My guess is the dad was just waiting for them to finally put their foot down and say no to the kid for a chance at a quick lawsuit and some easy money.

[Serpha]

No good deed goes unpunished.

[Mic_128]

I think it's fair that if there are certain requirements and he skipped those requirements that he be deemed not eligible.

Normally I would agree, but the fact was they were diligent in checking with the scouts frequently on whether what he was doing would get him the badges needed to make Eagle scout, and the whole time had been told they were. Then at the last hurdle he's being told no, he hasn't done the right things and to start all over again.

The scouts - be it the local chapter or the national one - are the ones at fault. They were asked if X was appropriate and told yes every time.

[WskyDK]

For those who don't know, being able to complete your eagle scout is something that's actually looked at on job applications. This is an award that actually matters, and can have real-world benefits.

This is an unfortunate situation, caused by the local bsa chapter, and the father. I hope they're able to help this kid, as he's clearly dedicated enough to embody the BSA, but the eagle scout rank should not be given because he hasn't met the requirements for it.

[Surfd]

I'm talking about academics that matter.

This is like, the fifth or sixth time you have dismissed the issue because "you think the award isn't important enough to matter".

Exactly what qualifies you to decide if the Eagle Scout award is important enough to "matter"? The thing is a nationally reviewed achievement award for a reason. They don't just hand them out like candy.

[De Lupe]

For those who don't know, being able to complete your eagle scout is something that's actually looked at on job applications. This is an award that actually matters, and can have real-world benefits.

This is an unfortunate situation, caused by the local bsa chapter, and the father. I hope they're able to help this kid, as he's clearly dedicated enough to embody the BSA, but the eagle scout rank should not be given because he hasn't met the requirements for it.

Winner, winner, chicken dinner. /thread now