Why are monks being tied to Pandaria?

[Magistrate]

I don't like the decision that the new allied races can't be monks. It doesn't make much sense, as it's something that can be learned. There are monk trainers scattered across Azeroth now. It's not like a Death Knight, where it's technically in the past. Theoretically any new race can 'choose' to pick up the ways of being a monk.

What I'm trying to say is that Zandalari should be able to be monks. Any new race should be able to.
If they can become warriors, they can become monks too.

So your title and your post ask two different questions:

1. Why are monks tied to Pandaren culture?
2. Why can't Zandalari be monks?

The former has been answered pretty extensively by Blizzard over the years. The monk class represented is a product of Pandaren culture and training--all associated techniques, symbols, etc., are all therefore Pandaren.

The latter--meh, I agree. I don't feel so emotionally angry about it since it doesn't impact me--I don't play monks--but if every other race can be trained to be a monk lore-wise after the faction incursion on their land, the same logic would have to be applied to Allied Races, too. If it's a question of time, non-Pandarens were in the same boat when the mists parted.

[UnluckyAmateur]

You called?

Didn't Xera do that though?

[therealbowser]

I mean I don't care either way. Let them be monks as well.

And this is why your argument is invalid.

"We should do it anyways, because I don't care about the story." Yeah, no, the story is the backbone of this game. And it's important for that to consist of more than 'lol that'd be cool' as a grounds for adding things in... and Blizzard is pretty generous with adding stuff as it is.

[huth]

Didn't Xera do that though?

Yes, and forcibly, too. So it was neither the Draenei nor teaching.

[Arcene]

What I would like would be Worgen Monks because the idea of Kung Fu Werewolf makes me extremely happy. Shame it's not an option.

[FelPlague]

You called?

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Forsaken didn't enslave Pandaria's races for thousands of years.
And haven't been tryign to enslave them again after being overthrown 15k years ago.

lolol and ummm the draenei did not teach him the light, ;3
xera forcefully filled him with the light, like she tried with illidan, so no, nothing to do with the draenei.

[Polarthief]

I don't like the decision that the new allied races can't be monks.

Um, both the elf allied races can be monks, as can HM Tauren. That's 3 of the 4 playable allied races atm.

Oh you just want a reason as to why Pandaren would teach one of their sworn past enemies their special techniques? Then why did you say "allied races" and not just ZD Trolls

I'm fine with pushing lore to let some races be classes such as Human hunters and Gnome priests, but I'm not okay with ignoring/intentionally breaking lore. The Pandaren know the ways of the monk, the Zandalari did bad things to Pandaren. Why would they ignore what happened and teach them shit?

[In Ogres We Trust]

Honestly, it would be nice to see Blizzard dehomogenize the races and classes, e.g. instead of a base kit for blood elf or tauren paladins, each race would have special abilities and/or graphics to reflect their lore. Honestly, this is beating a dead horse, but this was one of my primary likes about Classic, BC, and WotLK, i.e. the RP aspects of the game. Since that time, they've streamlined everything.

[Cosmic Janitor]

In short you don't give tools to your former slavemasters buddies especially when they just got done trying to bring your slavemasters back to life

But the monks and pandaren of the horde welcome the zalandari with open arms? Equally as nonsensical, besides the fact that by now other people should be able to teach them anyway.

[Zaganite]

But if you think about it, the Horde Pandarian arent from Pandaria (or they were and left I really cant remember) so I dont see why the wouldnt teach their new allies? Wouldnt a warchief be a tad ticked off if they wouldnt do it?

Im not justifying it because I think its the right move, just playing devils advocate.

[RedNein]

Monks appear to be one of the classes that fits the master/apprentice archetype and thus requires a lineage of tutelage to justify. Warriors, rogues, hunters and such you can argue would naturally and spontaneously arise in any given population given time and no significant cultural boundaries.

You can make the case for some races coming to discover the ways of the monk or at least developing monk-like skills, I'm looking at orcish Blademasters in particular that seem to hang out somewhere between Warrior and Monk in themes and philosophy, but given the classic Dojo/Monastery institutional framework the bulk of monks in Warcraft are going to come from Pandaren schools.

[Beingbob]

Even though the monk tradition comes from Pandaria, it doesn't have to constrain player roleplay choice or the development of monk lore characters in the future to only be goody two-shoes stuff about balance and peace. In real life, Asian martial arts often comes attached with philosophy and principles, that does not mean that everyone who learns karate or whatever is some wise and enlightened person. Similarly, just like there are plenty of bad paladins and priests in WoW lore, there's really nothing preventing 'bad' monks.

I reluctantly agree that Zandalari being excluded from monks makes sense though, even though I'm really excited about Zandalari and I main a monk. Not for the 'strength' argument (we can already have orc, tauren, dwarf and draenei monks...), but since the Zandalari have a history of being allied with the Mogu, it makes little sense for any Pandaren monk to be willing to teach them.

[huth]

I reluctantly agree that Zandalari being excluded from monks makes sense though, even though I'm really excited about Zandalari and I main a monk. Not for the 'strength' argument (we can already have orc, tauren, dwarf and draenei monks...), but since the Zandalari have a history of being allied with the Mogu, it makes little sense for any Pandaren monk to be willing to teach them.

For that matter, they're a pretty prideful bunch, so i can see an argument that they flat-out don't want to learn this "inferior" art.

[Doctor Funkenstein]

God knows Chinese lore isn't rife with corrupted monks and/or monks who taught outsiders their ways (knowingly or otherwise).

Two-dimensional lore for the win! It's Blizzard's hallmark after all!

[cparle87]

the mogu were there to protect, but when they became sentiant of their own thought they decided to enslave everything...

It wasn't really that simple. They were programmed to serve the Titanforged loyally, and they had a very rigid master/servant hierarchy with Ra-den at the top. After Ra-den basically abdicated and the mogu became flesh they tried to re-establish their hierarchy, operating under the idea that if they were the master's servants and the masters were gone that meant they were the masters now and all the other races should be loyal to them like they were to their masters. But life isn't that simple.

[Piamonte]

I don't like the decision that the new allied races can't be monks. It doesn't make much sense, as it's something that can be learned. There are monk trainers scattered across Azeroth now. It's not like a Death Knight, where it's technically in the past. Theoretically any new race can 'choose' to pick up the ways of being a monk.

What I'm trying to say is that Zandalari should be able to be monks. Any new race should be able to.
If they can become warriors, they can become monks too.

the monk´s discipline was born in Pandaria, all of the monks masters are pandaren, of course it makes sense that is tied to pandaria

Zandalaris foguth a war against the pandaren, it wouldnt make sense for them to embrace another culture fighting style, much less a culture that they probably see as inferior

[FelPlague]

God knows Chinese lore isn't rife with corrupted monks and/or monks who taught outsiders their ways (knowingly or otherwise).

Two-dimensional lore for the win! It's Blizzard's hallmark after all!

i love how you think a race teaching anyone and everyone their power without reason or bias is less two dimensional then them having biases and not wishing to teach some people, deciding some races would be better without their expertise, possibly for worry the race will do again what they did thousands of years ago, and just recently, however with their own power this time...


but nah lets just have every race have everything that is far better story telling then having some races have issues with other races.

[Doctor Funkenstein]

<mindless prattling unrelated to what he quoted>

And yet the forum reveals ANOTHER Einstein-level intellect.

Hint: Pandaren aren't the only mother fuckers who know the "secrets" to training someone to be a fucking monk. In fact, several of the monks you train with while leveling AREN'T EVEN PANDAREN -- including those IN fucking Pandaria. And for actual "monk trainers," ie those that let you reset your specialzation and shit, the one that ISN'T a pandaren is a god damned troll.

Also, it's funny how these super racist pandarens won't train them for X, Y, or Z, but they have no problem training them how to cook, perform first aid, or beg for their help in Pandaria. Or train them for any other class they can train for that matter. But whooooooooaaaaaaaaaaa, no monking for you! And they told all those other races they trained not to do it either, or else!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Sorry, it's fucking stupid. Race-class restrictions are stupid all by themselves (even D&D, which invented the fucking concept, realized how fucking stupid it was and got rid of it), but this takes the cake.

[huth]

but this takes the cake.

The Zandalari largely live on an isolated island that until the start of BfA they refused to let any non-troll land on and were allied with the former oppressors of the Pandaren, with the only Trolls that could have taught them being implied to not have had a presence in Zandalar for a while and only recently having re-established an embassy of sorts.

So it's not at all unlikely that they didn't have any contact to anybody who could have taught them, on top of not being likely to seek out the inventors of the craft for instruction.


It's not just the Pandaren not wanting to teach them. It's largely the Zandalari not wanting to learn.

[Beingbob]

...

Well to play devil's advocate we've been seeing Zandalari NPCs around since vanilla. Even if it's only now we're visiting their homeland they're hardly particularly isolated in the context of wow lore.

This is why I think Zandalari and Dark Iron dwarves should be allowed to be DKs tbh. There's nothing to say that a few couldn't have been around to have been captured by the Scourge around the events of WotLK.