If the faction war in BfA got to Silvermoon ...

[Friendlyimmolation]

Nope it has not been. Hell the argument started with my opinion about alliance attack on the sunwell. You have by now made it about the blood elves pov :S. And the last few post where just about the word proof :P.

You have said: the blood elves have no reason to trust the alliance. You never used the word POV. you did say things like why should the trust them etc.
But you never said from the ingame perspective for the blood elves. You have given their reactions etc. It does make some things more clear ( on your way of thinking).

I clearly stated i am not a timelord or have a bird of prey and spock for calculating the course.
Lol, my opinion ( or theory) is based upon previous similar situations. That is called a precedent . It can be used as proof. Look it up in a dictionary or Wikipedia or something. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Precedent
A precedent ( again i do not know the correct version of the word) can be used to proof that similar situation can happen. Or how the response was in previous similar situations.

any act, decision, or case that serves as a guide or justification for subsequent situations. from: http://www.dictionary.com/browse/precedents

proof:https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Proof_(truth)

In most disciplines, evidence is required to prove something. Evidence is drawn from experience of the world around us, with science obtaining its evidence from nature,[11] law obtaining its evidence from witnesses and forensic investigation,[12] and so on.

so for my proof i need:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Evidence

So again i have proven that my opinion can be right. And previous situations can be used as evidence on the behavior pattern of the alliance. And i have given facts that they did not abuse them. How do i know they are facts? Because if they did use them we would have seen it ingame. It would be on wowpedia or it would be in quests on wowhead.

see you 2morrow.

Again, you proved nothing, you proved the Alliance did not use other things, you have no proof what so ever they would not use the sunwell. Hell atleast you admit you can't see the future, so why are you trying to act as if you have proof they wouldn't use it when you have no idea?

You're trying to use precidence as proof that they would not use or abuse the sunwell with 100% certainty. That's not how that works. But I admire your ability to keep trying to run in circles.

If you had an example of the Alliance saying that they did not plan to use the Sunwell, you would have something to stand on. This example however doesn't exsist, and therefore you have no proof, only opinions.

So again i have proven that my opinion can be right. And previous situations can be used as evidence on the behavior pattern of the alliance. And i have given facts that they did not abuse them. How do i know they are facts? Because if they did use them we would have seen it ingame. It would be on wowpedia or it would be in quests on wowhead.

see you 2morrow.

"Proving your opinion can be right" is probably the most hilarious thing you can type, no shit it could be right, but you can't prove that it is right, yet another thing you are confusing.

[Darktbs]

It was never about tainting the land forever, it was about making it a resource drain for a while instead of a resource gain. That is essentially the core of these tactics.

What i have been talking about in this last post is not why but HOW

If the Blood elfs just burn, salt, freeze,whatever it can be countered with NIght elf's druidism.

But if they use, for example, Sylvanas plague.They will completly scar the lands and the Alliance will simply turn back because there isn't any reason to do proceed when the Horde itself destroys their land.

The enemy has still ways to get to the continent, just as the Alliance wouldn't be cut entirely of kalimdor, even if the horde drove off the entire night elves and draenei.

Yes but its a lot harder to do, why do you think ports are so important?

And it will most likely not be the only conflict it would bind most of the Alliance resources and while they are occupied up in Quel'thalas the horde can tighten their grip on Kalimdor.

True but it would be a lot easier for both faction since there will be only one focus on the war, which would be Kalimdor.

Using scorched earth tactics isn't vile, it is sound tactics which has been used for centuries. Denying an advancing enemies future assets is basic strategy.

Im not talking about the tactic, but what they choose to do.Remember, this is a world with magic of all kinds, and there is magic that can permanently scar the land.

Considering how Alleria still holds them as her people in her heart and still loves her homeland dearly and the state of the ghostlands hurts her and the high elves came back to fight against the amani to defend it. The high elves still see the sunwell as holy, I'd say seeing their land in ruins will affect them.

i mean, if you want to talk about a person opinion, then Umbric says that "Silvermoon turns its back on the Ren'dorei long ago" and the Voidelfs dialogue suggest they are bitter about what the Blood elfs did.

[Beloren]

I wonder if it came to it, if the blood elves would rather destroy silvermoon and the sunwell than share it with the high and void elves. I find it hard to believe any child of Quel'thalas would sanction the destruction of that place unless they were taken by madness.

Would they rather destroy it completely than either share or leave ? I am skeptical. If Elves were human, yes, for sure. But I'd like to think things would be a little different when it came to the Elves over Silvermoon or Suramar.

But for sure, the prize of Quel'thalas would be for the high elves and void elves, I can't see any scenario where they don't command the push for the era or where there decision on it isn't final amongst the alliance.

[Friendlyimmolation]

I wonder if it came to it, if the blood elves would rather destroy silvermoon and the sunwell than share it with the high and void elves. I find it hard to believe any child of Quel'thalas would sanction the destruction of that place unless they were taken by madness.

Would they rather destroy it completely than either share or leave ? I am skeptical. If Elves were human, yes, for sure. But I'd like to think things would be a little different when it came to the Elves over Silvermoon or Suramar.

But for sure, the prize of Quel'thalas would be for the high elves and void elves, I can't see any scenario where they don't command the push for the era or where there decision on it isn't final amongst the alliance.

It wouldn't be only the High and void elves they would be forced to share it with, and that is the issue. They aren't going to like the idea of filthy humans (And even worse, void elves) etc near their well.

Better to take the well away on their own terms, they did it before.

[Aeula]

I wonder if it came to it, if the blood elves would rather destroy silvermoon and the sunwell than share it with the high and void elves. I find it hard to believe any child of Quel'thalas would sanction the destruction of that place unless they were taken by madness.

Would they rather destroy it completely than either share or leave ? I am skeptical. If Elves were human, yes, for sure. But I'd like to think things would be a little different when it came to the Elves over Silvermoon or Suramar.

But for sure, the prize of Quel'thalas would be for the high elves and void elves, I can't see any scenario where they don't command the push for the era or where there decision on it isn't final amongst the alliance.

I doubt there'd be time to destroy Silvermoon, but the Sunwell is something they'd definitely destroy rather than see it fall to their enemies. They can't trust the Alliance with its safekeeping, not with Void Elves in their ranks.

[Dagoth Ur]

I wonder if it came to it, if the blood elves would rather destroy silvermoon and the sunwell than share it with the high and void elves. I find it hard to believe any child of Quel'thalas would sanction the destruction of that place unless they were taken by madness.

Would they rather destroy it completely than either share or leave ? I am skeptical. If Elves were human, yes, for sure. But I'd like to think things would be a little different when it came to the Elves over Silvermoon or Suramar.

But for sure, the prize of Quel'thalas would be for the high elves and void elves, I can't see any scenario where they don't command the push for the era or where there decision on it isn't final amongst the alliance.

If it comes to something like that why not fly the Sunwell over to Kalimdor and booby trap Silvermoon. You can even leave a nice note to Alleria in the Throne room.

[Beloren]

Better to take the well away on their own terms, they did it before.

They did, but that was when it was corrupted by Arthas, and it would have driven every elf insane. The loss of the Sunwell would affect all children of Quel'thalas , and the high and void elves controlling it wouldn't necessitate its destruction, and I'm sure they'd give the same courtesy the blood elves gave the high elves. Or have I completely missed the boat on this one.?

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If it comes to something like that why not fly the Sunwell over to Kalimdor and booby trap Silvermoon. You can even leave a nice note to Alleria in the Throne room.

That would be awesome, but if you can move a well like that, would the night elves move the well of eternity too? Somehow I don't think moving a well is possible. But who knows.

If they could move it, I think our fate is sealed and we don't even know it. I guess as a storywriter the question is would it be a more interesting story if the Well got moved to Kalimdor, got destroyed, or got shared because the city became neutrally shared.

Which would be the more interesting prospect to follow. I have to say destroying it .. well we've had that before, I somehow doubt any of them would want to go through that again, which is why I think they'd rather share than destroy it.. unless ofc keeping it meant certain death. Moving it.. now that would be interesting, sharing it would be new political situation that hasn't been explored yet either.

But I wouldn't want another elven well lost.

[Friendlyimmolation]

They did, but that was when it was corrupted by Arthas, and it would have driven every elf insane. The loss of the Sunwell would affect all children of Quel'thalas , and the high and void elves controlling it wouldn't necessitate its destruction, and I'm sure they'd give the same courtesy the blood elves gave the high elves. Or have I completely missed the boat on this one.?

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That would be awesome, but if you can move a well like that, would the night elves move the well of eternity too? Somehow I don't think moving a well is possible. But who knows.

If they could move it, I think our fate is sealed and we don't even know it. I guess as a storywriter the question is would it be a more interesting story if the Well got moved to Kalimdor, got destroyed, or got shared because the city became neutrally shared.

Which would be the more interesting prospect to follow. I have to say destroying it .. well we've had that before, I somehow doubt any of them would want to go through that again, which is why I think they'd rather share than destroy it.. unless ofc keeping it meant certain death. Moving it.. now that would be interesting, sharing it would be new political situation that hasn't been explored yet either.

But I wouldn't want another elven well lost.

The point is the blood elves have no reason to trust their enemies with their faunt of power. The blood elves coped much better with the loss of the Sunwell than the High elves did, and their nightborne allies could help them.

Again, it's about trust, and the Blood elves have zero reason to ever trust the Alliance with holding their well. To say that they would allow that to happen is to call the blood elves blind morons and wipe away most of their characterization.

They already don't trust the high and void elves, they sure as fucking hell aren't going to suddenly go. "Sure you can look after the well."

[Dagoth Ur]

That would be awesome, but if you can move a well like that, would the night elves move the well of eternity too? Somehow I don't think moving a well is possible. But who knows.

Well of Eternity was much larger though but yeah, not sure if you can simply float Sunwell wherever you want. I think Blizzard never went into details of how Dalaran flying really works?

[Deleted]

Quel'thalas is much more defensible than Lordaeron due to their being only one rout by land. Plus the Alliance would probably be stuck camping outside whilst the sunwell's shield keeps them out.

The amount of resources it'd take trying to break the shield down would leave the Alliance vulnerable in other areas.

Also the old horde with guldan red dragons and zuljins forest trolls, and arthas with scourge couldnt break it (and scourge is more powerfull then like half a faction and 1faction). arthas only got it cause 1let him in, and all pro Alliance elves arent in silvermoon anymore so that cant/wont happen again so Alliance pretty much has no chance to take it.

[Zulkhan]

Also the old horde with guldan red dragons and zuljins forest trolls, and arthas with scourge couldnt break it (and scourge is more powerfull then like half a faction and 1faction). arthas only got it cause 1let him in, and all pro Alliance elves arent in silvermoon anymore so that cant/wont happen again so Alliance pretty much has no chance to take it.

The Scourge decimated their race, though. Sure, the Sunwell may still develop a shield of similar potency but Blood Elves lack the numbers the High Elves of old had to counter forces of such caliber. If no other Horde race is going to help them, it wouldn't take long before they would fall against a full-out assault from the Alliance. The shield would only delay the inevitable.

[Deleted]

I believe that Blizzard is considering the future of Warcraft franchise. Be that Warcraft 4 or a new World of Warcraft. Each faction shall have their own continent, with all other places being areas of conflict between Alliance and Horde. Silvermoon and Exodar could be in a constant siege, creating a Stalingrad type atmosphere around them.
Besides that, races of Warcraft need time to repopulate and renew their demography, if they wish to continue their wars.

[Deleted]

The Scourge decimated their race, though. Sure, the Sunwell may still develop a shield of similar potency but Blood Elves lack the numbers the High Elves of old had to counter forces of such caliber. If no other Horde race is going to help them, it wouldn't take long before they would fall against a full-out assault from the Alliance. The shield would only delay the inevitable.

the shield is inpenetrable, arthas only got one cause dathmar nathir(or however you spell it) he basicly let arthas in by telling how to get past barrier, else without him arthas wouldve never gotten in.
ANd at very least the nightborne would help them and theyre good at shields aswell surumar shield survived the sundering.
If Alliance cant break shield which is almost impossible, and it has never been broken outside someone letting enemy in 1time with arthas. The belfs still wouldnt be defensless and it would take tons of resources better used elsewere.
Say Alliance can break the shield but it taks half their total army 5years of constant fighting to do it, then they couldve used to resources much better anywhere else.
But more then likly they wont ever break it and never get into the city in first place so thing like arthas cant happen again.
Arthas and scourge was aslo more powerfull then the Alliance is.

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Maybe the void elves will conquer silvermoon and the belfs become homeless and hang up with the shreks in their tents.
Remember, their numbers are endless.

void elfs are endless they with lightforged got lowest population of races , void elfs are only a handfull, maybe enough for a small town at best a few hundred, lightforged a few Thousand at best. Even gnomes and silvercovenant high elfs got far far bigger population.

[Zulkhan]

the shield is inpenetrable

As long it stays up. If Dalaran ends up joining the Alliance's war effort, a city-state of magi holding way more arcane knowledge and tools than both the Scourge and the Old Horde possessed, there's little that the elves may be able to do to undermine the Kirin Tor's efforts to bring it down without the numbers to sustain the Alliance's invasion.

ANd at very least the nightborne would help them and theyre good at shields aswell surumar shield survived the sundering

Fair enough.

Say Alliance can break the shield but it taks half their total army 5years of constant fighting to do it, then they couldve used to resources much better anywhere else

No way in hell. Even with the Nightborne support, the entirety of the Alliance army would outnumber the Blood Elves so badly that it would not be even funny.

If Silvermoon becomes a target it will fall, that's a guarantee. But as other people said, Blood Elves may assure that whatever amount of resources the Alliance will waste on the siege of Quel'Thalas and Silvermoon it shall be a waste for real, scorching the earth and leaving nothing behind, Sunwell included. Then they would simply travel to Kalimdor and take over the Night Elf lands, greatly strengthening the Horde's grip on the continent.

[Jack Black]

Since when Blood Elves use terrorists tactics? Oh i forgot they befriended with Forsakens. Silly me...

[Friendlyimmolation]

Since when Blood Elves use terrorists tactics? Oh i forgot they befriended with Forsakens. Silly me...

Elves have always fought with victory and as causing as much pain to the enemy as possible....

[rydix]

As long it stays up. If Dalaran ends up joining the Alliance's war effort, a city-state of magi holding way more arcane knowledge and tools than both the Scourge and the Old Horde possessed, there's little that the elves may be able to do to undermine the Kirin Tor's efforts to bring it down without the numbers to sustain the Alliance's invasion.

You are wrong about Dalaran power level. You can only look at the Second war and Wotlk campaign and how powerful was Dalaran there. It was shit weak even with Blood/High elves in it....and now Blood elves aren't in it so they are weaker.
Old horde was more powerful than whole old Alliance despite not having arcane knowledge and guess what...Dalaran was in that Alliance. Orgrim's horde have lost only and only because inner betrayal.
Sunwell shield can withstand any mortal wielding magic except maybe void but that is up for discussion because if Sunwell is composed of arcane + light magic and if each of two fills other one weakness making it arcanolight-ish source of power, it can be hard to break even for void. We also know that void can harm well itself but we don't know can it harm shield. If it can harm shield it would be because ''light component'' in it but having arcane in well would compensate for that and in the end make shield impenetrable for almost any kind of magic...almost is key word because in reality we don't know.
You really think that 7k+ years of arcane knowledge would be countered by some petty human city that was even not worth any important mention in Second war beside being sacked?

And I didn't even mention the Scourge because I'm lazy to type further but Scourge is a hell of a lot powerful then Dalaran.

Dalaran is overrated because , you know, humans.

[Pheraz]

the shield is inpenetrable, arthas only got one cause dathmar nathir(or however you spell it) he basicly let arthas in by telling how to get past barrier, else without him arthas wouldve never gotten in.
ANd at very least the nightborne would help them and theyre good at shields aswell surumar shield survived the sundering.
If Alliance cant break shield which is almost impossible, and it has never been broken outside someone letting enemy in 1time with arthas. The belfs still wouldnt be defensless and it would take tons of resources better used elsewere.
Say Alliance can break the shield but it taks half their total army 5years of constant fighting to do it, then they couldve used to resources much better anywhere else.
But more then likly they wont ever break it and never get into the city in first place so thing like arthas cant happen again.
Arthas and scourge was aslo more powerfull then the Alliance is.

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void elfs are endless they with lightforged got lowest population of races , void elfs are only a handfull, maybe enough for a small town at best a few hundred, lightforged a few Thousand at best. Even gnomes and silvercovenant high elfs got far far bigger population.

That was a joke man. Irony.

[Zulkhan]

Since when Blood Elves use terrorists tactics?

Night Elves kind of used them too, or at least considered using them in the Wolfheart novel.

You are wrong about Dalaran power level. You can only look at the Second war and Wotlk campaign and how powerful was Dalaran there. It was shit weak even with Blood/High elves in it....and now Blood elves aren't in it so they are weaker.
Old horde was more powerful than whole old Alliance despite not having arcane knowledge and guess what...Dalaran was in that Alliance. Orgrim's horde have lost only and only because inner betrayal.
Sunwell shield can withstand any mortal wielding magic except maybe void but that is up for discussion because if Sunwell is composed of arcane + light magic and if each of two fills other one weakness making it arcanolight-ish source of power, it can be hard to break even for void. We also know that void can harm well itself but we don't know can it harm shield. If it can harm shield it would be because ''light component'' in it but having arcane in well would compensate for that and in the end make shield impenetrable for almost any kind of magic...almost is key word because in reality we don't know.
You really think that 7k+ years of arcane knowledge would be countered by some petty human city that was even not worth any important mention in Second war beside being sacked?

And I didn't even mention the Scourge because I'm lazy to type further but Scourge is a hell of a lot powerful then Dalaran.

Dalaran is overrated because , you know, humans.

Sorry but you just thrown bias on me and little more. You keep talking of "power level" as something that matters, when it doesn't. Old Horde and Scourge may have been uber powerful and yet the arcane knowledge of these forces was, well, nonexistent at worst and insignificant at best. Dalaran's roles in the Second War or Third War are entirely irrelevant, since we're not talking of how they would fare against such powerful forces but how they would against the shadow of what Quel'Thalas used to be in those very wars. And Dalaran has never directly warred against them, so it's entirely up on the air how the scenario would play out. Surely, comments like "You really think that 7k+ years of arcane knowledge would be countered by some petty human city" are worthless since, like it or not, humans magi as a whole are never showed to be inferior to elven magi.

[Jack Black]

Night Elves kind of used them too, or at least considered using them in the Wolfheart novel.

I was talking about Blood Elves and you say me about Night Elves. What the point?

Elves have always fought with victory and as causing as much pain to the enemy as possible....

Ahem. Yes right.