Why are they ruining Garrosh even further in Chornicle 3?

[Deleted]

I'm more than happy to answer, provided you demonstrate how your hypothetical is relevant to Garrosh's treatment of the Darkspear. Until that happens, I'm not going to answer, otherwise you're going to extrapolate my opinions on an orange in order to condemn apples.

Actually I am pretty sure you don't know what hypocricy means. At least you used that word wrongly here.

So you're still avoiding a simple yes or no question and try to attack me on a personal level and unvalidate my question which doesn't work. Especially not with wrongly used terminology.

I still wait for that simple answer. But you know, not giving an answer by avoiding it is also an answer and a very, very deep one. It shows pretty easyly that either you know yourself that your view is dispicable or simply wrong but you are yet not able to just accept you were wrong thus leading to said avoiding.

I think it unfortunately derails the thread even more if I continue to insist on an answer, I allready got more than I way hoping for and people in this thread probably aswell.
It is just funny how you two guys with such a loud mouth are wiggling around that simple question that would reveal so much about your personal characters.

[Mehrunes]

"We are calling retcons everything we don't understand or don't like" ~ Community

Or we call retcons retcons, because the topic here is an explicit retcon.

[Syegfryed]

Venz is a nu-Horde, multicult Thrall worshipper. Anyone that dares to assert that Orcs are the core of the Horde, and take the Horde back to where it should be is going to be unfairly tarred.

i just love the term nu-horde, and will use for now on

[Mehrunes]

Interesting view on your pereception of what is right.
So for you it is totally fine to punish an entire race for what one member of said race threatens (not even doing) to do?
(Hint: That is basically the deffinition of raceism.)

I know that you garrosh /sylvanas fanbois lack logic yet so often, but please try to at least think for a second before you post something as concerning.

Question: do you think the Purge of Dalaran was right?

[RedNein]

Look at the plus side! When Garrosh says "You made me what I am" to Thrall at the end, he's literally wrong now. He was always that way.

Basically they intentionally retconned him into a less interesting character. I've come to terms with Garrosh's haphazardly inconsistent story arc, while I would have liked an aggressive leader who ultimately became honorable via character development that the player got to witness...that's just not what happened. Fine, okay. At least the emotional fugue of Garrosh is over.

Still terrible writing.

[Mehrunes]

That's what I'm getting out of this: People who refused to acknowledge Garrosh's glaring character flaws being surprised and outraged that Blizzard didn't sweep those flaws under the rug and instead fixed an inconsistency in his characterization from Stonetalon, as well as demonstrate what happens when you hand an unstable youth absolute power.

Where are people getting the fix to his inconsistency from Stonetalon? Because even if it was contained on one of the later excerpts from Chronicle v3 that I missed, this thread is about the Ashenvale retcon. Which changed nothing when it came to Garrosh as a character. Instead it retconned chronology of events and a part of Twilight Hammer's story.

[Deleted]

Question: do you think the Purge of Dalaran was right?

Since I insist on a simple yes or no answer:
No.
More elaborated: it would be refering towards racial punishment.

Why that question? Trying to come up with two times wrong is one times right? Or some kind of "the Alliance is not better"?
In which case would that make raceism and racial punishment ok?

But now it is my turn to ask you a question, I guess:
Same question I have asked the two guys before, you will find it.

Or do you want to be the third in line for avoiding it? You'd be in great company.

[Wildberry]

Actually I am pretty sure you don't know what hypocricy means. At least you used that word wrongly here.

Well, I didn't use the word "hypocrisy" at all in that post, actually, so I have no idea what in the Hell you're talking about.

So you're still avoiding a simple yes or no question and try to attack me on a personal level and unvalidate my question which doesn't work. Especially not with wrongly used terminology.

Will you highlight the personal attack I made on you?

It is just funny how you two guys with such a loud mouth are wiggling around that simple question that would reveal so much about your personal characters.

I'm not refusing to answer the question because I'm "scared" of what my response will reveal about my character. I'm simply asking you to demonstrate how your question is relevant to the Garrosh/Darkspear example during early Cataclysm specifically so that I can answer.

What's actually telling here is that you refuse to show how your fictional situation is relevant in any way to the discussion at hand, because you know you're making false equivalencies.

If listen to you is the same as be very careful not to be as biased and toxic as you are - sure.

Fortunately, there are still plenty of people who listen because I'm right. I don't even post regularly anymore.

"Is it really wrong to be racist?" When someone says that, there really is no point in speaking to them any further.

So you're going to "Wow, just wow" me over fictional racism, rather than getting into whether or not it was warranted?

[Mehrunes]

cause a forsaken was responsible for wrathgate, they fight a endless war against a army of undeads, and he saw sylvanas acting like LK 2.0 with the valkyr, and you are telling me he have no reasons to dislike then? LUL

Orcs had bajillion traitors in their history, including ones responsible for the destruction of his home world, yet that didn't make him hate Orcs. And he wanted to use Forsaken as fodder before Sylvanas even recruited Val'kyr, let alone showed him what they can do.

[Deleted]

Well, I didn't use the word "hypocrisy" at all in that post, actually, so I have no idea what in the Hell you're talking about.


Will you highlight the personal attack I made on you?

My bad, I totally missred it, for some reason I have expected something like that from you, sorry english is not my first language and I have to admit I didn't read closely enough, because my interest in you is shrinking since I probably won't get that simple answer:

You still avoid my question by demanding reasoning (that I have allready given) for the question. That is not the way questioning works, it works by answering the question not giving counterquestions to derail the conversation and avoid to answer.

I just asked you a simple question. Why so shy suddenly? You're not a politician, at least for the sake of humankind I hope you're not.

So you're going to "Wow, just wow" me over fictional racism, rather than getting into whether or not it was warranted?

That is the reason for my question, why my question was linked to non-fictional raceism. You finally got it! Great, now an answer please.

[Wildberry]

I just asked you a simple question. Why so shy suddenly? You're not a politician, at least for the sake of humankind I hope you're not.

My politics are outside of the Western overton window for at least another decade

Regardless, I'm not shying away from anything, I'm just waiting for you to tell me how your question regarding Trump/DPRK is in any way analogous to Garrosh/Darkspears (Specifically during early Cataclysm). If you can demonstrate that your scenario (and thus your question) is meaningfully comparable to what we're discussing, I'd be more than happy to answer.

[MrDragon]

What the hell is an Aluminum Falcon?!

*Robot chicken fan high five!*

[Wildberry]

Fictional or not - you agree with it. Who in the fuck thinks you're right, I've seen none of that in this thread so far. I get the people who like Garrosh as a meme, but if you seriously think he is anything less than a racist maniac who was completely unjustified, selfish and stupid then good christ what is going on there.

Please go make a thread praising the Darkspear for their "accomplishments" and watch the responses, specifically from @Mehrunes and @Arrashi. Plenty of people here realize that the Darkspears have contributed very little.

tl;dr: Garrosh racism was largely justified (especially against the Trolls) & Garrosh's war was completely justified.

[Mehrunes]

Why that question? Trying to come up with two times wrong is one times right? Or some kind of "the Alliance is not better"?
In which case would that make raceism and racial punishment ok?

Wanted to see if you're consistent in that assessment when the faction changes. Most Alliance posters on this forum think the purge was bee's knees. You're a refreshing change, admittedly.

But now it is my turn to ask you a question, I guess:
Same question I have asked the two guys before, you will find it.

Or do you want to be the third in line for avoiding it? You'd be in great company.

Why would I avoid it? Garrosh was a shitstain when it comes to treating the other races of the Horde and was prejudiced against them even before he got any real power (as seen in his short story). He was wrong to treat the Darkspear that way (plus, as Tauror already mentioned before, Garrosh put the Trolls in the slums before Vol'jin threatened him). Technically, they ultimately proved him wrong by being rebellious, but then again it can be very effectively argued that it's his unjust treatment that pushed them in this direction in the first place.

*Robot chicken fan high five!*

@OIS *Robot chicken fan high five!*

[Deleted]

My politics are outside of the Western overton window for at least another decade

So that you seem politically oriented backwards by atleast a century is nothing you was able to hide very well, not even by wiggling aound my simple question.

And yes you're shying away, you got every answer you need and yet you still don't answer my question. Unfortunately people who talk a lot tend to talk too much and reveal a lot about themselves.

[Tiwack]

"He cometh up, and is cut down, like a flower."



If you want consistent writing or multidimensional characters, you're playing the wrong game and should keep shopping around..

[Wildberry]

So that you seem politically oriented backwards by atleast a century is nothing you was able to hide very well, not even by wiggling aound my simple question.

Oh yes, implied chronological snobbery, wonderful!

Just tell me how the question is relevant to Garrosh's treatment of the Darkspear during early Cataclysm and I'll answer. Why are you shying away from demonstrating the relevance of your own question? If this is really the "knockout blow" you seem to think it is, shouldn't you be jumping at the opportunity to demonstrate why your question is bulletproof?

[Mehrunes]

It wasn't, I don't think any sensible person could justify it to be otherwise, but Jaina acted of her own free will outside the influence/ command of the Alliance. If Varian had instructed her to do so, the Alliance could be held accountable, but she acted alone. It's the same reason you can't blame the Horde for the Wrathgate since neither Sylvanas nor Thrall gave the command, Putress acted alone. Then again one might make the argument the Forsaken shouldn't be producing WMD's like plague/blight in the first place.

I'd never accuse people saying it was alright of being sensible, but there's quite a bit of them around here. As for the Blight, since you bring up the issue of the faction-level involvement in things and accountability, the Horde knew of the Blight being developed and before the Wrathgate they were more than OK with the prospect of a super-weapon to use against the Scourge.

[Deleted]

Wanted to see if you're consistent in that assessment when the faction changes. Most Alliance posters on this forum think the purge was bee's knees. You're a refreshing change, admittedly.

I want to give that compliment back.
Most Horde fans seem to defend any action as justified.

Don't get me wrong I am totally Ok with that storywriting of garrosh being evil, it is a great story to have a guy you can really hate on. But those evil guys don't necessarily need to be stupid maniacs.
You avatar for example is an example for a bat shit evil character but yet we like to read about him, that is totally fine.

I am just ... let's say concernd if people take the fiction out of the fiction and justify the destruction of alderaan with their personal political views, that is what I see as a problem.
Roleplaying an evil maniac is fine, as long as you don't think it is totally ok in real life. And unfortunately I am pretty sure that some here aren't roleplaying with their views.

[Wildberry]

@Talime
So I take it you're not going to explain how your example is actually relevant, then?