Master Looter

[Occam-OC]

I don't know if I have a matire reply but the elimination of master looter just makes the game more of a single player game and that is what it seems that the developers want.

The whole idea of a raiding guild is that some individual sacrifices are made so the overall group can go farther in progression, such as gearing the tanks and healers first.

Blizzards desire is to have RNG be the only factor in your gearing i.e. Blizzard can keep you undergeared and chasing that carrot forever like a stupid donkey instead of enjoying your friends helping you out.

If you truly feel that your guild dislikes you enough to not give you gear then you are either in the wrong guild or you are a dick and you need to get your attitude better.

Blizzard never said that loot won't be tradeable within the raid. If that's the case, any guild could still maintain a loot council or point system. It will only require players to trade their gear to the winning player.

[Bladesyphon]

Not really, the corrupt RLs will still force you to hand over all your PL drops. The only thing that really changes that it takes longer to handle drops after a bosskill.

That's uh..gonna be pretty hard to do with everything being personal loot. If a "corrupt RL" is now forcing you to hand over loot the game has given you directly through it's one single loot system, and you're being threatened by the RL if you don't, that's going into the realm of harassment.

I'm neither against or for the removal of Master Loot, but I can see Blizzard's reasoning behind taking it away all the same (if they do). For every guild that actually has a properly working loot council, there's a dozen others out there that are abusing it to funnel gear to their friends and officers at the cost of everyone else in the guild, and the guild's overall progression, leading to that nasty word toxicity, which in turn is leading to people dropping out of the guild, struggling to find another guild to join, and either quitting, or just giving up raiding all together.

These are all things that are not fostering the kind of community, both in and out of raiding, that Blizzard wants for their game. The old saying of one bad apple ruins the bunch applies here. Yes, it may suck that Master Loot is going away, but unfortunately when you have people abusing the system to get what they want, at the expense of the others, that's kind of the only option Blizzard can take. Remember: There's far more people playing this game for fun, then for progression, and it's pretty damn hard to have fun when your guild and group is being mishandled through Master Loot.

[Lahis]

I don't know if I have a matire reply but the elimination of master looter just makes the game more of a single player game and that is what it seems that the developers want.

The whole idea of a raiding guild is that some individual sacrifices are made so the overall group can go farther in progression, such as gearing the tanks and healers first.

Blizzards desire is to have RNG be the only factor in your gearing i.e. Blizzard can keep you undergeared and chasing that carrot forever like a stupid donkey instead of enjoying your friends helping you out.

If you truly feel that your guild dislikes you enough to not give you gear then you are either in the wrong guild or you are a dick and you need to get your attitude better.

In what world do you prioritize healers over DPS?

DPS requirements are the first thing that has to be met. You can mitigate incoming damage by not being bad and standing in the fire. In many cases, when pushing for the kill you remove entire healers and replace them with DPS to kill the damn thing faster.

[vsb]

Your definition is wrong, mythic guild is the guild that works on mythic content, whether it's first week or last, it doesn't matter. Master loot is necessary, because raid leader must have tools to punish and reward to keep discipline in raid, otherwise guild won't differ from PuG and PuGs already use personal loot.

[D3cadent]

Fresh air to a long time stale ass raiding scene, hopefully this will make skill>time in high end raiding. No more funneling gear to get the edge which = more time which high end guilds had. 16 hour raiding days F that.

Spoken like a completely clueless spud. Well done.

[vsb]

Not really, the corrupt RLs will still force you to hand over all your PL drops. The only thing that really changes that it takes longer to handle drops after a bosskill.

How will they know that I got drop if I won't loot it? It'll be mailed to be after raid anyway.

[Gaidax]

How will they know that I got drop if I won't loot it? It'll be mailed to be after raid anyway.

Good way to get kicked from the guild, simply because vigilant officer team will spot this bullshit fast, as it is a known behavior.

Wonder if a random piece of gear or two will be worth it.

[Ipsissimus]

Putting aside the extremely asinine reasons presented so far by Blizzard and people defending or agreeing with their intention to do away with Master Loot, there's an important point here that you're missing when you're asking about how it affects the guild's chance of killing a boss. It happens to be a point I've reiterated several times throughout Legion in regards to various obnoxious RNG mechanics forced down our throats. the true "degenerate extreme" we've gotten to witness.

A character's power should not be tied to pure RNG.

It doesn't matter if the guild in question does indeed benefit from ML to the extent that it allows it to down bosses faster*, taking away the players' control over who gets which piece deflates any meaningful progression that's tied to your character's 'power level'. You killed a boss with your group of friends? You get to decide who should get that shiny new item. Who is it a bigger upgrade for, who has showed up more consistently, who plays more reliably during progression, et cetera.

Your friends are idiots who give away inbredforged trinkets to the GM's officer girlfriend? Find new friends.

*rest fucking assured that it does for any guild engaging Mythic content before inbredforging inflates their item level out of hand.

[vsb]

Good way to get kicked from the guild, simply because vigilant officer team will spot this bullshit fast, as it is a known behavior.

Wonder if a random piece of gear or two will be worth it.

There's no way to spot it.

[Fitsu]

It doesn't matter if your top 100 or top 1000. Every bit of DPS can and will make a difference and infact in lesser guilds master looter is likely more prominent in ensuring loot goes to your best players (in top 100 guilds every player is good, in top 500 guilds you'll have filler players who only turn up for raids once in a blue moon or simply aren't that good).

The idea that "loot goes to officers/friends first" just means your in a bad guild and should leave because loot should go to those who can gain the most from it. I've played this game for a number of years now and I have never experienced this while I see people claim it happens all the time (I personally think it's the greedy/bad players acting like there not getting loot because of "friends" when it's infact because others deserve it more).

From my perspective, I don't really understand why they would remove Master Looter... It's an option that 99% of guilds use because in any guild that has a sentiment of self-respect it is outright better than personal loot as you can give gear to appropriate people, even removing the idea of better players getting funneled gear and class bias what if someone gets an item on personal loot that is a 5ilvl upgrade when there are others who it would of been a 20ilvl upgrade? Maybe it's me, but I don't see any advantage to personal loot over master in a guild and I see a tonne of disadvantages.

[Lahis]

There's no way to spot it.

Ever checked the guild panel in game?




Suuuuure, there is no way to tell people looted something...

[rda]

I really cant see the benefits of this. What is positive when youre forced to have random personal loot?

Not being forced to give it to the unfair master looter.

[Gaidax]

There's no way to spot it.

lol?

/10char

[vsb]

Ever checked the guild panel in game?

Ever did that quest in class hall?

[rda]

Personally I find masterlooting to be the best option. it gives raiders (talking from my guild and personal experience) a reason to show up and compete, earning DKP which can be spent on items. plain and simple.

All master loot does is puts people into a perma-highschool mode with the primitive power structure: master - his friends - others, with a big portion of others trying to appear "friendly" and willing to suck up a bit in order to try and get closer to the center of power to get more perks. Whoever is doing master loot gets all the cakes at the expense of various others who are deemed "less worthy".

You want DKP, as in, who puts more effort gets more loot? That's already built into attendance. If you show up 3 times and I show up 30 times, I have 10 more chances than you do at the loot. Now, we can absolutely start reasoning about how it makes sense to give me not 10 times more loot, but 15 times, because I am more loyal or whatever, but, first, if we dig deep down, most of the supposed benefit is just wishful thinking, and, second, none of it worth the mess of the perma-highschool mode.

Blizzard are doing the right thing here. Master loot is an abomination.

[Darkbless]

Ever checked the guild panel in game?

That panel doesnt seem to show items you pick up from mailbox. Just like you dont get a pop up in guild chat if you loot legendary from mailbox.

[Wries]

I can imagine councils not working out in general. Either by perception of the ones outside the council or some sort of mismanagement. EPGP, though. If actually _used_ (meaning little to no council interference) it is pretty objectively fair. I dig it. Wish we used it..

I'm slightly annoyed at this change. Because you know exclusively using personal loot will mean that you can never make sure certain players get specific and important items.

[Kiri]

That sounds like a juvenille response from a raiding member who doesnt understand what it means to be an officer/raid leader/GM of a mythic raiding guild.

You have no clue the amount of extra work that goes into keeping a raiding guild running beyond just turning up and doing some DPS.

I am a raid leader in a mythic guild. (We started mythic in week 2 of mythic content if that counts) We use master looter but we dont do split runs. I do not prioritize loot to officers over members. We have no core raider/raider rank. Everyone is entitled to loot. We use EPGP so there is no loot council, I trust my raiders to tell me if the item is a big upgrade for them.

Master looter leads to less wasted gear, a 985 ring drops for someone on personal but its terrible stats, they cant trade it, therefore its a wasted item as they will never use it. That item is likely best in slot for someone else in the raid.

I may revise my opinion going into BfA with the loss of tier tokens and hopefully them balancing secondary stats a bit better so that 1 stat doesnt go off stupidly far ahead of others for certain classes.

While I see where you are coming from, I have to disagree on the less wasted gear part. I run a - admittedly only hc since we are only doing it casually - personal loot raid. The scenario of a best in slot for someone being unable to be traded because of something like that has not come up at all in recent memory. But the wasted loot part imho is mitigated anyway due to personal loot giving more drops. If you compare master loot and personal loot only in terms of 'wasted' drops, then yes, personal might have more. But that does not mean that you have less not-wasted drops. That 985 ring might not have even dropped, had loot been set to master, so it being wasted is less of an objective issue, but more of a subjective one.

[Ipsissimus]

All master loot does is puts people into a perma-highschool mode with the primitive power structure: master - his friends - others, with a big portion of others trying to appear "friendly" and willing to suck up a bit in order to try and get closer to the center of power to get more perks. Whoever is doing master loot gets all the cakes at the expense of various others who are deemed "less worthy".

It's so strange how I've been making fun of every single GM I've had as much as I did and do of fellow raiders, yet I wasn't denied my delicious cake slices throughout the years. Raid with kinder/fairer people. Alternatively, raid in a personal loot guild.

Why do you need Blizzard to take away my guild's ability to Master Loot for you to do that?
Do you really have that little agency over your gaming experience?

[Whitepaw]

Let’s not fool ourselves: When you give that much power (master looter, loot council etc) to one or a select few people, chances are that some will abuse it.

And that will still happen, because who’s to say that the following /w from the Raidleader will NOT happen in a raid:”So Averagejoe, that uber trinket you just got from Megaboss - yep, that one - hand it over to our good player Uberlock, will ya? That’s a good boy!”

Social pressure will always be there. I’ve seen it so many times, where the ambition to do better in rankings on the server trumped basic fairness. I only have one advice: Stick to your guns and tell people to fuck off, if they pester you with handing over loot to them.