Why Sethrak and Vulpera are Pointless Races and Shouldn't be playable.

[Ophenia]

Except for all those races added that we didn't, like when Draenei, or even Worgen were added.

... wut, they're pretty central right now

Plus, is all your argumentation based on "it was already done lel, let's destroy it even more" ? Great

[Aritos]

... wut, they're pretty central right now

Plus, is all your argumentation based on "it was already done lel, let's destroy it even more" ? Great

Right now.

But Draenei didn't have any major prominence in terms of story or history until WoD. That means Wrath, Cataclysm, and Pandaria, all didn't flesh out the Draenei's history.

So when they add a new race they have at least 7 years to worry about giving them meaningful backstory. Your argument is bunk in all kinds of ways.

Plus, is all your argumentation based on "it was already done lel, let's destroy it even more" ? Great

You aren't the gatekeeper on whether it's "destroyed or not." That's your subjective opinion and has zero value. Blizzard decides what happens with their IP.

[Aliven]

"They're pointless and bad because I don't like them and my subjective perspective of what is or isn't a 'fantasy game' must be adhered to."

+1

Also, Sethrak are awesome design wise.

- - - Updated - - -

It's an addition, not a change. Adding these playable races, even if it is Vulpera, changes nothing about how you play the game. You can just ignore the requirements to unlock them and focus on the rest BfA has to offer. Can't stand seeing other people play an Allied race you dislike? Then the issue lies solely with you.

Well it could be perceived as change - you log in after quiting in vanilla and see fox people, emo elves with hentai tentacles, werewolves with fucked up spine due to not having tail and they tell you you are a minority by playing orc.

[Deleted]

Serpent people are pretty much a classic of genre.

Infact guess when they were included in atypical western fantasy...go on...guess..

Now while serpent headed people did exist in various worlds mythologies for literally thousands of years, we'll go with one of the major influential writers on the fantasy genre, this would be Robert E. Howard aka the man who wrote the Conan books and friend of H.P. Lovecraft. Now according to Wikipedia the Serpent Men were first included in the story "the Shadow Kingdom" in 1929. To compare Tolkien wrote the Lord of the Rings in 1937.

Now since then we've seen Serpent people turn up in a myriad of guises. Infact the Naga in this game are a form of Serpent people, it's just the devs are too lazy/overworked to turn them into a playable race (yet) due to animations being required. Lets take a look at Snake People from several different games, both tabletop and videogame.

Yuan-ti: Dungeons and Dragons.


Man Serpent and Serpent Mage: Dark Souls



Marvel Heroes online:


Call of Cthulu: God of Serpents Yig


So as you can see there is a wide variety of serpent people to choose from, some are more like Naga, some are more like Sethrak and that's without getting into the weirdness that is the Bloodborne snake people...

[GreenJesus]

"Wahhh.. If something wasn't in Warcraft III then it doesn't exist... wahhh"

[Futhark]

"Wahhh.. If something wasn't in Warcraft III then it doesn't exist... wahhh"

"Add all the races! Fuck lore and continuity! We want snek people, fox people, bird people, fish people, cat people! I don't want Azeroth, I want Zootopia!"

[Steampunkette]

"Add all the races! Fuck lore and continuity! We want snek people, fox people, bird people, fish people, cat people! I don't want Azeroth, I want Zootopia!"

The Devs already added them to the Lore. They exist whether you like it or not. And if they choose to make them playable, that lore will exist, too.

'Cause Lore is not static.

[Vargulf the Happy Husky]

for this game / franchise to continue to exist blizzard will always have to add new things to the lore. do we know shit about fox or snake people? no, not yet. LET THE DEVS WORK!

look at classes. we've got a tinkerer class and a bard class (MAYBE) left. what will you people say when they decide to introduce a brand new play style to the game with an unheard of class?

(think of a manipulator class, or an inquisitor. something that can open mental wounds and do damage that way. NO, THAT'S NOT A SHADOW PRIEST! )

although, i'm betting the expansion after BfA will introduce 4th class to everyone except druids. open up some of the races / allied races to druids that weren't able to be one before...

sargeras is in jail, boys. warcraft OG over.

from here on we're flying by the seat of our pants!!!

[Deleted]

sargeras is in jail, boys. warcraft OG over.

from here on we're flying by the seat of our pants!!!

Pretty much this...all the major lore threats from the original Warcraft games have been 'dealt' with. Gul'dan (both of them), Illidan, Lich King, 2 out of 3 remaining Old Gods (3 out of the 4 if you include old Y'Shaarj), Sargeras, Deathwing. All we've really got left is old N'zoth, Azshara and maybe Xal'atath resurfacing as a new Old God (we do feed her an ungodly amount of power when draining the power from the Sword in Silithus...she seems less like she'll just be handed over and depowered and more likely just...vanish...as she has done in the past) and we're fully into seat of our pants territory.

[MechaCThun]

Sethrak and Vulpera are to this expansion that Hozen and Jinyu were to MoP.

[Villager720]

I can’t figure out why people think Sethrak are an option. How on earth can they even wear helmets?

[Ilir]

Funny.

People cry because alliance got "boring" allied races but then they're like "DONT MAKE BRAND NEW RACES ALLIED RACES, ITS DUMB. TAKE ONLY WC3 RACES"... so in the end they want more boring generic races.

[Leodok]

Your own list shows why. Almost every race in it is either really boring and unappealing (visually and/or culturally) or won't happen because we already got something very similar. I hate Vulpera, but I would play one rather than a good one third of your list.

Besides, both races offer us variety. Sethrak with a more middle-eastern look and feel for the Alliance, and Vulpera with a more "gypsy" feel for the Horde. That's not even touching on how different they look, especially Sethrak.

why not ask to play as a High Elf

Wildhammer Dwarf

Vrykul

Taunka

Dragonmaw

Not happening. We already got allied races covering most of the roles these would. We won't get another dwarf. We won't get another reskinned elf. We won't get another bulky human. We won't get another orc clan.
Also, high elves are the single most boring race in the entire game. I'd sooner play as a basic campfire than them.

Fully Risen Undead

What the hell does that even mean?

Ogre

Guess what, there is a bunch of people asking for them, and they have been doing so for many years now. But, for many players, ogres feel very boring and unappealing. Fat, ugly, dumb versions of orcs.

Furbolg

Remember when I talked about variety? What cultural variety would furbolgs bring to either faction? They worship the same spirits nelves and tauren do, and they don't have much established culture aside from being bear people who follow Ursoc and Ursol. They also suffer from not looking very appealing to many people.

Satyr

No culture of their own apart from a more eeeeeevil version of nigh elf druids. I think they could be an ok race, but Sethrak, for example, would be a lot better.

Fullmetal Gnomes, Junker Goblins

There's people asking for them and I think they'd be alright. But gnomes and goblins have never been the most popular races, and I don't think a few robotic parts would change that.
Also, no new cultural variety.

[Deleted]

Serpent people are pretty much a classic of genre.

Infact guess when they were included in atypical western fantasy...go on...guess..

Now while serpent headed people did exist in various worlds mythologies for literally thousands of years, we'll go with one of the major influential writers on the fantasy genre, this would be Robert E. Howard aka the man who wrote the Conan books and friend of H.P. Lovecraft. Now according to Wikipedia the Serpent Men were first included in the story "the Shadow Kingdom" in 1929. To compare Tolkien wrote the Lord of the Rings in 1937.

Now since then we've seen Serpent people turn up in a myriad of guises. Infact the Naga in this game are a form of Serpent people, it's just the devs are too lazy/overworked to turn them into a playable race (yet) due to animations being required. Lets take a look at Snake People from several different games, both tabletop and videogame.

Yuan-ti: Dungeons and Dragons.


Man Serpent and Serpent Mage: Dark Souls



Marvel Heroes online:


Call of Cthulu: God of Serpents Yig


So as you can see there is a wide variety of serpent people to choose from, some are more like Naga, some are more like Sethrak and that's without getting into the weirdness that is the Bloodborne snake people...

I feel like you are sort of making the OP's point with this post. He was arguing that warcraft will be like any other generic MMO since it just adds random races into the mix for the sake of adding something, which doesn't have the "classic warcraft flavour" or whatever we should call it. While the races of Warcraft are inspired by pre-existing templates, Warcraft has sort of made them their own through the Warcraft games by interpreting them differently, i.e. Warcraft orcs and trolls.

Anyawy, I think the it's a good discussion and there are lots of fair points on both sides. However, I don't think a good argument is, as many people in this thread are choosing to argue; "If you don't like it, the problem is with you."
You could as well say that the problem is with the people that like it. It's not a good argument.

You're of course allowed to not like things and discuss them, I think that's good and we can maybe try to appreciate each others viewpoints. I'm equally if not more confused over the fact that people seem to get upset or riled up over the fact that people want to discuss these things.
If you don't like the discussion, why do you partake?

So If we try to summarize the arguments a bit, I would say that they mainly are:

* People are saddened by the fact that the warcraft that they have grown to know is losing its identity by adding things for the sake of adding, rather than building on what we already have.

and the counterargument is

* We need to add new exciting things to the game for it to stay interesting and to keep players invested.

(Feel free to correct me if im wrong, or respond with any argument of your choosing. I'm trying to make a sort of fast summary of how I interpeted peoples thoughts in the thread, I apologize in advance It's hard to take in everything everyone has said.)

Personally I think there's a good middleground, where you add things that make sense and not for the "cool factor" of it; but knowing Blizzard they are prone to pull these kinds of stunts where they just create content for the sake of having something to add rather than having it make sense to the world.

Personally I'm kind of ambivalent about Sethrak and Vulpeera, and I'm not sure whether they will even be allied races at this point, and if they are perhaps it will be at the end of the expansion and by that point they will have been sewn into the story in a good way. But if they are just getting thrown in there, I would rather we not have them as allied races. Just my 2cents. Whatever happens will be up to Blizzard in the end, but we can still discuss whether this is good or bad.

What do you think? Do people that are against it feel that they would be more okay with it if Blizzard made sure to give the races a lot of story in the new expansion before making them playable so that we get to know them?
And you all that are hoping for these races, would you change your minds if they just get to be playable without any good backstory? Is it just the character models that are of interest to you?

[Deleted]

Funny.

People cry because alliance got "boring" allied races but then they're like "DONT MAKE BRAND NEW RACES ALLIED RACES, ITS DUMB. TAKE ONLY WC3 RACES"... so in the end they want more boring generic races.

The funny thing is they forget just HOW many races were introduced in Warcraft 3 besides the Night Elves and Tauren. Harpies were a neutral mob in WC3, Naga were a playable unit and part of an alliance with the blood elves in WC3: The Frozen Throne. Neurbians were introduced in WC3, Satyrs, Gnolls and Furbolgs, all neutral creeps.

Yet I imagine if they were making Gnolls be a playable race these same people would be up in arms about it.

What do you think? Do people that are against it feel that they would be more okay with it if Blizzard made sure to give the races a lot of story in the new expansion before making them playable so that we get to know them?
And you all that are hoping for these races, would you change your minds if they just get to be playable without any good backstory? Is it just the character models that are of interest to you?

Personally, the model is usually enough for me, I have very little interest in the current crop of Allied Races on either side. For me the feature is basically a big old bust, there's nothing I want to play...sure I'm levelling a nightborne but thats because its killing time in the content drought and less about 'oh must have nightborne'. Hell I haven't even bothered doing the High Mountain tauren unlock scenario yet.

However you must realise that some of us are also taking what we can get. The Devs seem determined not to make Naga a playable race, they even outright stated they didn't even look at the Naga as an option. I love their cool lore, their lovecraftian, almost deep one-esque nature. But we ain't getting that...so Sethrak it is. I love the model on them and I'm personally hoping we get to see their lore expanded on as we move through the expansion prior to their introduction.

I see lore potential in the Sethrak as an allied race, the option to buddy them up with the Dark Iron and be the group that is much more willing to do the dirty work of the Alliance. The Hammer and the Anvil, with the Sethrak being the striking hammer and the Dark Iron being the resolute anvil against which the foes of the Alliance are crushed.

[Deleted]

The funny thing is they forget just HOW many races were introduced in Warcraft 3 besides the Night Elves and Tauren. Harpies were a neutral mob in WC3, Naga were a playable unit and part of an alliance with the blood elves in WC3: The Frozen Throne. Neurbians were introduced in WC3, Satyrs, Gnolls and Furbolgs, all neutral creeps.

Yet I imagine if they were making Gnolls be a playable race these same people would be up in arms about it.



Personally, the model is usually enough for me, I have very little interest in the current crop of Allied Races on either side. For me the feature is basically a big old bust, there's nothing I want to play...sure I'm levelling a nightborne but thats because its killing time in the content drought and less about 'oh must have nightborne'. Hell I haven't even bothered doing the High Mountain tauren unlock scenario yet.

However you must realise that some of us are also taking what we can get. The Devs seem determined not to make Naga a playable race, they even outright stated they didn't even look at the Naga as an option. I love their cool lore, their lovecraftian, almost deep one-esque nature. But we ain't getting that...so Sethrak it is. I love the model on them and I'm personally hoping we get to see their lore expanded on as we move through the expansion prior to their introduction.

I see lore potential in the Sethrak as an allied race, the option to buddy them up with the Dark Iron and be the group that is much more willing to do the dirty work of the Alliance. The Hammer and the Anvil, with the Sethrak being the striking hammer and the Dark Iron being the resolute anvil against which the foes of the Alliance are crushed.

I see your point. So Sethrak is like the next best thing if you can't get Naga? Is it fair for me to say that? Would you rather they skip Sethrak as playable if you knew Naga were coming then?

They definitely look cool, and snake-like people have existed in Warcraft for a long time so the concept isn't really that alien. I can also appreciate the fact that they would give the Alliance, a long with dark iron just as you pointed out, a more savage and brutal aspect which they have been missing. But perhaps some Alliance players aren't too fond with that idea and want the Alliance to remain more noble and pure?

Hopefully Blizzard will try to integrate them in a good way, so that people that are more concerned about whether or not they fit into the theme will accept and embrace them in the eventuality we get to play them.

[Drewbacca]

To be clear, these races haven’t even been confirmed to be playable. People are just excited at the idea of it, and they have every right to be. I wish Ogres would be playable as well. Just because we may work with these new races doesn’t mean they will be playable in this expansion or the next. We worked with the Hozen and Jinyu and they are actual allied races, but they still aren’t playable. Take a breath and relax until confirmation.

This... settle down and wait.

[Veluren]

I see your point. So Sethrak is like the next best thing if you can't get Naga? Is it fair for me to say that? Would you rather they skip Sethrak as playable if you knew Naga were coming then?

They definitely look cool, and snake-like people have existed in Warcraft for a long time so the concept isn't really that alien. I can also appreciate the fact that they would give the Alliance, a long with dark iron just as you pointed out, a more savage and brutal aspect which they have been missing. But perhaps some Alliance players aren't too fond with that idea and want the Alliance to remain more noble and pure?

Hopefully Blizzard will try to integrate them in a good way, so that people that are more concerned about whether or not they fit into the theme will accept and embrace them in the eventuality we get to play them.

To be honest, I personally would prefer Sethrak after getting views into their culture.

Naga exist as the evil offshoots of Night Elves making their homes in underwater ruined elf cities, their culture has evolved differently, but they're still Night Elves. Meanwhile the Sethrak seem to be inspired heavily by imperial-era Egypt, a flavor of an "Advanced-yet-savage" culture that compliments and mirrors the Zandalari and hasn't been touched up much (You can bring up the counterpoint of the Tol'vir, but let's be honest I don't think Blizzard even remembers they exist, even if they do they're a farther shot for playable than Murlocs are).

I think the potential for Sethrak to have cool lore would be much more than Naga at this point, to the point I'm all in on them.

[Deleted]

I see your point. So Sethrak is like the next best thing if you can't get Naga? Is it fair for me to say that? Would you rather they skip Sethrak as playable if you knew Naga were coming then?

They definitely look cool, and snake-like people have existed in Warcraft for a long time so the concept isn't really that alien. I can also appreciate the fact that they would give the Alliance, a long with dark iron just as you pointed out, a more savage and brutal aspect which they have been missing. But perhaps some Alliance players aren't too fond with that idea and want the Alliance to remain more noble and pure?

Hopefully Blizzard will try to integrate them in a good way, so that people that are more concerned about whether or not they fit into the theme will accept and embrace them in the eventuality we get to play them.

For me personally, yes but for other people, no, other people do prefer the Sethrak over the Naga and I can understand why. Also funny thing is you have an easier time explaining why the Sethrak fit the Alliance than the Naga. The Naga hate the horde (they've said this before that they would rather be wiped out than deal with those 'savages'...still holding onto the haughty highborne nature there)...and I don't imagine the Night Elves being too fond of the idea of their now mutated former comrades who nearly caused the end of the world rejoining the Alliance. If people think Tyrandes response to Nightborne was bad (which it was...stupid Tyrande) then her reaction to Naga emissaries would be downright viscious.

[Biotec]

I feel like you are sort of making the OP's point with this post. He was arguing that warcraft will be like any other generic MMO since it just adds random races into the mix for the sake of adding something, which doesn't have the "classic warcraft flavour" or whatever we should call it. While the races of Warcraft are inspired by pre-existing templates, Warcraft has sort of made them their own through the Warcraft games by interpreting them differently, i.e. Warcraft orcs and trolls

I have to call out this arguement. You're judging the Sethrak as unable to fit with the "classic warcraft flavour" and make it generic but then go around and say that warcraft thrives by interpreting generic races differently. At the same time we know NOTHING about the Sethrak besides the fact that they like killing the Vulpera. People are hating them before we even see how they are interpreted.

Nothing in Warcraft was really unique. Almost all of the races are practically stripped from something like DnD, some more than others (gnolls and early DnD kobolds are extremely similar to the WoW versions). Things like the Old Gods come from Lovecraft, even the names are practically just references rather than their own thing. Vulpera meanwhile are actually way more original than most other things in this game, but it "doesn't fit" because people just dislike their looks rather than their lore.

And finally, the Sethrak could still be far from "generic" in any way. For instance, the Yuan-ti from DnD share very little with the Tsaeci from TES. There's no reason to assume that they will be similar to either of those since all we know about them is that they want to turn the entire Island into a desert and hate the Vulpera.

Everyone that says "They aren't warcraft" is full of it and most likely only hating on the Vulpera because they hate furries as well.