Mega-Thread: Mueller investigation

[PACOX]

What's crazy is that Trump will listen to him, not that it isn't decent advice, but at this point we kind of want Trump to fire Mueller just so we finally have that "smoking gun" we've wanted to end this and get to the fun stuff.

I don't know, I liking the odds even if they might be favorable. The GOP, especially House GOP, hasn't been to honorable when dealing with Trump. They've been doing this thing where they verbally denounce Trump but turn around and throw their hands up when its time to act becauses these no current legal precedent and/or they refuse to deliberate on one. The way the Trump administration has handled information security is arguably a national threat and the House hasn't do so much as told him to tighten up but Clinton's emails were all the rage! Because House this thing where they use the absence legal obligations (something that says they must question x or lose their job) to impose checks on Trump to say "there is nothing they can do". What happens if Trump has Mueller fired, how do they sleep at night knowing they just sold out the country?

They start by saying, "Well Trump didn't fire Mueller, Sessions did." (It would probably be Rosenstein being forced out and some shill actually firing Mueller but we know where the order came from). They would say, "Well what protection does special council actually have?" without ever opening an actual investigation into the matter. Then they'd say, "Well Mueller was actually out of line because of <insert x dumbass argument such as having 15 Democrats on his team, some conspiracy to protect the FBI, etc> but its not like we're make Mueller testify against these accusations". They even might say something like, "Well none of Muellers current charges point towards collusion" while using the worst possible definition of collusion that they can fine. Then elections will come and go, a bunch of them will lose their seats, a bunch of them will say how they actually supported Mueller and it was a miscarriage of justice that no one protected Mueller's investigation; ignoring their own personal responsibility in the process.

Thankfully Mueller is strategic and probably planned on being fired months ago. Trump's inexperience allowed Mueller to last this long and because of that Mueller probably has a solid contengency plan. We already know about him filing charges via New York to get around Trump being able to just pardon convictions. I'm willing to bet Mueller has something bigger up his sleaves, something a bunch of sideline spectators who never walked pasts a law school could ever come up with.

[cubby]

What's crazy is that Trump will listen to him, not that it isn't decent advice, but at this point we kind of want Trump to fire Mueller just so we finally have that "smoking gun" we've wanted to end this and get to the fun stuff.

And that's not even the craziest thing about Trump. But at least our "president" is taking advice from a bat-shit crazy conspiracy theorist. FUN!

On a side note, I disagree with you about wanting Mueller fired. I think Mueller already has several smoking guns, and is now lining up the firing squad, so to speak, with other related but relevant infractions.

Plus, the GOP has been at best limp-dicked on pursuing impeachment. If we lose Mueller, everything is in chaos - and Cheeto thrives in chaos.

[Stormspark]

And that's not even the craziest thing about Trump. But at least our "president" is taking advice from a bat-shit crazy conspiracy theorist. FUN!

On a side note, I disagree with you about wanting Mueller fired. I think Mueller already has several smoking guns, and is now lining up the firing squad, so to speak, with other related but relevant infractions.

Plus, the GOP has been at best limp-dicked on pursuing impeachment. If we lose Mueller, everything is in chaos - and Cheeto thrives in chaos.

I know this won't actually happen in reality, but I wish it would. There need to be treason charges for EVERYONE that was directly involved in the conspiracy with Russia to change the election, AND for everyone that tried to cover it up (ie, by "ending" the House investigation). Then there needs to be a literal firing squad for the lot.

I realize the best that will actually happen is to get these bozos out of the government, but how do we keep this from happening again? It's obvious that our "checks and balances" don't actually work, and the country is ripe for dictatorship once someone smart gets into Trump's position. Trump himself isn't smart enough to pull it off, but what do we do when the next guy is? I don't know of a way to fix this without a rewrite of the constitution. I'm not sure an amendment would even be enough.

[Blur4stuff]

If Trump and his people did nothing wrong then it would be best to just let the investigation play out. There would be no need to panic and go on twitter rants. There would be zero reason to try and fire Mueller.

[Somewhatconcerned]

At this point, assuming there is even a modest blue wave this November, it may not be a bad idea to just let him play out the next 3-7 years and be a lame duck pres for most of it. Even if Mueller were to have something substantial against him, his supporters and many on the right would hand wave it as "deep state, fake news, etc." I think there would be deep resentment of our institutions and for the other half of the populace by those on the right, and they would gladly turn around and vote for the next demagogue that would be even worse than Trump, should the opportunity present itself.

People are too divided and there is no reconciliation on this matter. To forcibly remove him would probably cause an irreparable split in this country...not in literal terms or civil war terms, but there would be absolutely no coming back from it probably. No middle ground, ever.

[Skroe]

With this cambridge analytica, we are hitting some illuminati levels of organizing on global level. Not only in USA guys. He is talking about UKRANIAN girls! fuck me i would hire that man daily

Yes, because Facebook is greatest intelligence gathering tool in the history of mankind.

I mean think about it.

1 billion people. Writing a dossier about their likes and dislikes. About their ongoing activities and geolocating themselves on a regular basis. And then establishing a network of connections by saying who their friends and associates are.

In the history of the world, there has never been a better tool to understand human topography. Facebook turned into a business that which, 60 years ago, would have been a Manhattan project-scale government operation and once revealed, probably one of the greatest scandals of American history. It would make the Pentagon Papers look like a square dance.

People did this willingly under the moniker of social. It's absolutely insane in retrospect. Social is probably just another fad, albeit one with long lasting and extremely destructive consequences.


And Facebook itself? There is no recovering from this for current management. Rather than get more hollow, unbelievable promises about their resolve to 'do better', Zuckerberg and the rest have to go. There has to be a cleaning of the house, from top to bottom. This Cambridge Analytica thing is a career ending failure, starting with the CEO. Facebook's business is personal information. They were trusted with it. They failed. So the people running the business, non-failures, must take over.

[DarkTZeratul]

And Facebook itself? There is no recovering from this for current management. Rather than get more hollow, unbelievable promises about their resolve to 'do better', Zuckerberg and the rest have to go. There has to be a cleaning of the house, from top to bottom. This Cambridge Analytica thing is a career ending failure, starting with the CEO. Facebook's business is personal information. They were trusted with it. They failed. So the people running the business, non-failures, must take over.

Well their Data Security Chief has already left:

https://www.nytimes.com/2018/03/19/t...ex-stamos.html

[Skroe]

Yep. But that's not enough.
Sandburg, Schroepher, Cox and Zuckerberg all have to go.

And I sincerely hope that in the post-Trump era, Democrats engage in a new round of trust busting. Facebook, Google, Amazon and Apple all need to be broken up, and much of the uncompetitive telecom / media industry consolidation of the past 20 years needs to be undone.

I say that as somebody whose employer was owned by Google until last year. Shatter them into fifty pieces. Slay the dragon.

[Slant]

So... Trump fires the #2 of the FBI. Not just 2 days before his retirement, but also on his birthday... that's some seriously evil shit. I bet the devil went "Damn, bro.. that's harsh!"

[Breccia]

In their first face-to-face interview, Trump's legal team seeks to control which questions Mueller will be allowed to ask Trump during the increasingly likely interrogation.

"How's that going for him?"

Well, he's threatened to fire his longtime lawyer Ty Cobb, so, probably not very well.

[Dontrike]

In their first face-to-face interview, Trump's legal team seeks to control which questions Mueller will be allowed to ask Trump during the increasingly likely interrogation.

"How's that going for him?"

Well, he's threatened to fire his longtime lawyer Ty Cobb, so, probably not very well.

It's crazy that they can actually limit what questions can be asked, that seems a little insane.

[Demolitia]

It's crazy that they can actually limit what questions can be asked, that seems a little insane.

Mueller can't make him answer anything at this point. But since Trump claims there is no collusion (feel free to add caps) and he has nothing to do with anything, he shouldn't have any problem doing so and helping the investigations move along.
The problem is, he's an idiot who can't control his mouth and will likely perjure himself.
So, his lawyers are trying to find a compromise where Trump would appear as showing goodwill, without having to answer to questions that are too complex for him so he doesn't say anything incorrect, incriminating or just a flat out lie which would basically be the end of his presidency.

[Breccia]

GOP: We need a second special counsel. Despite what factually happened, we still continue to push the narrative that the FISA warrant was politically motivated because the Steele dossier was politically motivated and the fact that both have unveiled actual evidence doesn't enter into it.
Everyone else: Wow. Every word in that sentence was wrong.
GOP: Well if anything about Clinton's campaign WHICH TOTES COLLUDED WITH RUSSIA YOU GAIZ is even a little bit suspicious we need a full-on special counsel to find the truth. We cannot have even a smidge of Russia in our election!
Everyone else: So, that means you'll be talking with Cambridge again?
GOP: No, we're not going to do that.

[Gref]

@Skroe what makes me surprised is, I sincerely believe this a huge news. But i see no coverage of it anywhere except the guardian. I mean the shit is big. It is big. We are seeing a company that manipulates millions of people.

[cubby]

I know this won't actually happen in reality, but I wish it would. There need to be treason charges for EVERYONE that was directly involved in the conspiracy with Russia to change the election, AND for everyone that tried to cover it up (ie, by "ending" the House investigation). Then there needs to be a literal firing squad for the lot.

I realize the best that will actually happen is to get these bozos out of the government, but how do we keep this from happening again? It's obvious that our "checks and balances" don't actually work, and the country is ripe for dictatorship once someone smart gets into Trump's position. Trump himself isn't smart enough to pull it off, but what do we do when the next guy is? I don't know of a way to fix this without a rewrite of the constitution. I'm not sure an amendment would even be enough.

To your first point, while treason charges for everyone is more than unlikely, another tact might be available. There are a number of inquiries and investigations into money laundering by the Trump Organization (when can we call then a Crime Family?) in several different areas - including real estate and personal funds. Those inquires have also revealed that the money laundering might have coursed through the GOP General Fund - and if THAT happened, with even tacit knowledge, the GOP high ups are fucked. Because RICO could kick in, on the state level (or federal, but Pardons), and RICO is very easy to establish and then sweep up a number of barely involved peeps. Do you remember that FBI raid on the VA GOP fundraising office way back in 2016/2017? And Mueller has all the pieces coming together.

So you might just get your wish. A number of high-level GOP Senators and Congressman have already either resigned for no reason or indicated that they will not be seeking another term. And these aren't low-end ride-the-gravy-train idiots, these are Committee chairman, including Appropriations - which is arguably the most powerful Committee in Congress.

To your second point - I have no idea. The fact that someone like Trump can even be elected still boggles my mind. And some of the "easy" solutions, like doing away with the Electoral College, are highly unlikely to happen. The GOP still assaults voters to increase disenfranchisement, and they still attempt ridiculous gerrymandering schemes to hold onto unwarranted power, and that are usually illegal.

If Trump and his Crime Family had half a brain, Mueller wouldn't even exist. Your point about if the next guy is even remotely intelligent, there won't be any trails at all, and they will get away clean, is both valid and frightening.

[Rukh]

Good news everybody! https://apnews.com/2519e21cca3e433da...pecial-counsel

Republicans have decided to dismiss legislation that would protect the special council against firing from the target of the special council. Because of course they would.

[Elegiac]

Good news everybody! https://apnews.com/2519e21cca3e433da...pecial-counsel

Republicans have decided to dismiss legislation that would protect the special council against firing from the target of the special council. Because of course they would.

Because we needed more evidence that the GOP is a cancerous stain on the country, apparently.

Mueller doesn't need protecting until he does. Sound logic.

[Kujako]

Because we needed more evidence that the GOP is a cancerous stain on the country, apparently.

Mueller doesn't need protecting until he does. Sound logic.

Well it's like mass shootings, you can't talk about restricting access to guns before or after they're used to kill a bunch of people. Likewise you can't talk about protecting the investigation into Republican corruption, until after it's been shut down and it's too late to do anything, so why talk about it even then?

[Elegiac]

Well it's like mass shootings, you can't talk about restricting access to guns before or after they're used to kill a bunch of people. Likewise you can't talk about protecting the investigation into Republican corruption, until after it's been shut down and it's too late to do anything, so why talk about it even then?

Yeah, I wonder how Dacien is going to spin interfering with an active investigation this time.

[Captain N]

Yeah, I wonder how Dacien is going to spin interfering with an active investigation this time.

I'm waiting for Ghostpanther's spin myself. The pretzels the Cheeto Cult troglodytes twist themselves into to defend such a horrible person is astounding.