Video console death: US boy, 9, 'kills sister, 13, over controller'

[Antiganon]

Avoiding the 2A talk for the moment, even if you want to argue that gun control legislation isn't the answer, we should be able to agree on some measures that COULD be put in place.

For instance, gun owner responsibility. If your gun is used in the commission of a crime, and you did not report that weapon stolen, you will be charged (at minimum; potentially higher) as an accessory to the crime in question. And to claim it was stolen, you would have to show that A> the gun was lawfully secured properly, and B> someone broke through that security to steal the weapon. If your kid knows the code/knows where the key is, and gets your gun out of lockup, you're gonna be charged as an accessory.

One too far IMO. If I have a gun secured in a safe, unloaded, and I have the key hidden somewhere else, there is nothing that suggests somebody couldn't rummage through my things to find the key and open it. Or guess the combination after many, many attempts. Point being, with appropriate effort, there exist means for someone to bypass your security without physically breaking it.

I would go with a two-tier penalty here: Improperly secured (i.e. you don't own a gun safe) Firearms Negligence in the First Degree, along with Accessory to <Whatever>. Secured, but somebody was able to easily access (i.e. you left the key somewhere they could find it, other people knew the combination, etc)? Firearms Negligence in the Second Degree, no accessory charge. Secured, but somebody broke your security (i.e. they stole your safe, drilled it, coerced you to open it under threat of violence)? No penalty. For the third scenario to apply, the theft and B&E (or coercion) would need to be reported to police prior to the weapon being used in the commission of a crime, unless you can demonstrate you had no knowledge beforehand (i.e. gun stolen from your home while you are on vacation).

Why? Because you failed to secure the weapon, and effectively let it fall into their hands. That's not as bad as committing the murder itself, but that's why I'm only suggesting they be charged as an accessory. Same goes for suicides; a troubled teen getting dad's gun and killing himself means dad is going to jail as an accessory for aiding in that suicide.

Charging a parent as an accessory in their child's suicide seems like a fucking horrible thing to do. The point of justice (IMO) should be to rehabilitate offenders that can be rehabilitated, and to punish (with a life or death sentence) offenders that are beyond rehabilitation. There is no amount of prison time that will be more rehabilitative than a parent knowing they are personally responsible for their child's suicide, and to do so would be an unnecessary burden on the State that now has to pay for their living expenses. I would accept a felony charge that carries no penalty beyond the consequential loss of 2nd Amendment rights.

[Ghostpanther]

One too far IMO. If I have a gun secured in a safe, unloaded, and I have the key hidden somewhere else, there is nothing that suggests somebody couldn't rummage through my things to find the key and open it. Or guess the combination after many, many attempts. Point being, with appropriate effort, there exist means for someone to bypass your security without physically breaking it.

I would go with a two-tier penalty here: Improperly secured (i.e. you don't own a gun safe) Firearms Negligence in the First Degree, along with Accessory to <Whatever>. Secured, but somebody was able to easily access (i.e. you left the key somewhere they could find it, other people knew the combination, etc)? Firearms Negligence in the Second Degree, no accessory charge. Secured, but somebody broke your security (i.e. they stole your safe, drilled it, coerced you to open it under threat of violence)? No penalty. For the third scenario to apply, the theft and B&E (or coercion) would need to be reported to police prior to the weapon being used in the commission of a crime, unless you can demonstrate you had no knowledge beforehand (i.e. gun stolen from your home while you are on vacation).Charging a parent as an accessory in their child's suicide seems like a fucking horrible thing to do. The point of justice (IMO) should be to rehabilitate offenders that can be rehabilitated, and to punish (with a life or death sentence) offenders that are beyond rehabilitation. There is no amount of prison time that will be more rehabilitative than a parent knowing they are personally responsible for their child's suicide, and to do so would be an unnecessary burden on the State that now has to pay for their living expenses. I would accept a felony charge that carries no penalty beyond the consequential loss of 2nd Amendment rights.

You do not need a safe to properly store a firearm. Every firearm sold now I think, comes with trigger locks. How one needs to store their firearm will vary according to their own situation. Just simply having a law firearms need to be stored and secured safely from children is good enough. Having them loaded and accessible to children clearly is negligence. Having a unloaded firearm and ammo accessible to children is also.

Someone breaks into your home and steals a butcher knife and then later kills a person with it, should be held partially responsible for the death of the victim? This is why each case needs to be looked at to determine the extent of the crime and punishment. Having a firearm stolen and having the requirement to report it to the police is a good law to have.

Just my opinion. But I would not support a law requiring all firearms to be secured in a safe. But overall, I agree with your points for the most part.

[Dangg]

US and a nignog shocking

infracted - forbidden topics

[Gamer8585]

Bad Parenting+Irresponsible Gun Ownership=Dead Kid.

QED

[CatsNeverDie]

Exactly! children and guns are a responsibility if you can't handle both then get rid of one.

[Lionwoman]

This is just crazy, I can't help feeling that whichever parent owned the gun should be charged with manslaughter, who leaves a loaded gun within reach of children?

Apparently, some parents in the UUSS.


"He's just nine", Yeah but he shot his sister. Frightful.
Their parents are too irresponsible, they should be charged along with the 9-year-old boy.

Replace "controller" with anything else this kid wanted and I wonder if the outcome would have been different. I suppose we just don't know enough yet. Sad though. How could a nine year old come to the conclusion that shooting someone to get what he wanted was a good idea.

[The Stormbringer]

US and a nignog shocking

WTF is a 'nignog'?

[Katchii]

Of course the responsibility for this incident lies with the individual. Society's failure though lies in creating a culture in which it is deemed important that people are afforded the opportunity to own a gun leading to a reluctance to be overly strict about who qualifies.



Ok, I am just going to be blunt. This is bullshit. No human being is 100% perfect 100% of the time. Even the most responsible, most vigilant of gun owners will make the odd mistake. As human beings we are suspceptible to getting distracted. For example, Joe Soap, a very careful gun owner is maintaining his weapon, has it out on his desk, when suddenly he has a case of explosive diarrhoea. Unsurprisingly he fails to have the presence of mind to carefully put the gun away in the safe and put the key in a safe place before making a dash for the toilet. Or if you prefer a more likely scenario, his wife interrupts him with a "high priority" request that she insists he deal with right now!!!!!!11!!

You also forget things like fatigue, like getting sick, like the effect that alchohol or medication can have on people.

If even the best among us can, under duress, fail from time to time, think about the fallibility of the average person, or maybe the 10th percentile person. When you have a society that places such a high value on the right to bear arms that even these people are included in being allowed to own guns, the odds of "accidents" suddenly become not just a theoretical possibility, but an absolute certainty.

Just going to point out, the main issue was being left out unattended and loaded. Being left out for cleaning on a desk or whatever, unloaded is not the issue here. I never said a responsible gun owner would never leave their gun out, I said they'd never leave a loaded weapon unsecured and in easy reach of children.

If someone DOES end up leaving their loaded weapon out and unsecured and in easy reach of children then they're irresponsible.

[Raelbo]

Not to the point where the differences in gun ownership rates is the sole cause in the difference in violence rates.

Dude, I have never said it's all about gun ownership rate. In fact I have been consistently harping on about how the excessive value placed on the right to bear arms is the real problem, and I have repeatedly intimated that the massive proliferation of guns in the US is a symptom thereof.

Countries like Germany have a gun per capita ratio of about a third of that of the US, yet the US has nearly 15 times as much gun violence homicides.

A conclusion I would draw from the fact that Germany has only 30% of the number of guns per capita that the USA has is that, unlike the Americans, Germans are not nearly as fanatical about owning guns because "It's my constitutional right to do so". Nor are they as accomodating to their citizens who do feel that way

As a result, Germans who do own guns mostly fall into the category of non-undesirable gun owners. Whereas in the USA, where far more people have access to guns, a far greater proportion of gun owners fall into the category of undesirable gun owners.

The seemingly disproportionate decrease in number of gun related deaths in Germany is because they are far more picky about who they allow to carry guns in the first place. Not only does Germany have less than a third of the number of guns per capita that the US has, but gun owners represent those best suited to being so. In contrast, in the USA, gun owners represent everyone, including many who are either average, below average and downright terrible.

[Crissi]

Given this story has run its course and has now turning into a gun debate thread, I'll redirect you to the Gun Control Megathread

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