If the faction war in BfA got to Silvermoon ...

[Verdugo]

Ahem. Yes right.

Just look at what they did to the captured Amani.

[elbleuet]

You really think that 7k+ years of arcane knowledge would be countered by some petty human city that was even not worth any important mention in Second war beside being sacked?

Oh please stop this bullshit.

These "7k years of arcane knowledge" were so useful that they felt obliged to call upon the Silver Covenant to bring to their knees 20 Amani trolls while Vol'Jin's trolls even reached Stormwind to get Alliance help.

[Verdugo]

Oh please stop this bullshit.

These "7k years of arcane knowledge" were so useful that they felt obliged to call upon the Silver Covenant to bring to their knees 20 Amani trolls while Vol'Jin's trolls even reached Stormwind to get Alliance help.

They need to make alliance somehow relevant.

[Darktbs]

the shield is inpenetrable, arthas only got one cause dathmar nathir(or however you spell it) he basicly let arthas in by telling how to get past barrier, else without him arthas wouldve never gotten in.
ANd at very least the nightborne would help them and theyre good at shields aswell surumar shield survived the sundering.
If Alliance cant break shield which is almost impossible, and it has never been broken outside someone letting enemy in 1time with arthas. The belfs still wouldnt be defensless and it would take tons of resources better used elsewere.
Say Alliance can break the shield but it taks half their total army 5years of constant fighting to do it, then they couldve used to resources much better anywhere else.
But more then likly they wont ever break it and never get into the city in first place so thing like arthas cant happen again.
Arthas and scourge was aslo more powerfull then the Alliance is.

And you know what the Alliance has now to counter the shield?

[Combatbutler]

And you know what the Alliance has now to counter the shield?

None of those actually counter the shield though.

Arthas nerubians couldn't tunnel beneath the city.
The beacon needs to be set up in the city, it can't be set up through the shield.
And void elves have not displayed the ability to penetrate magical defenses of such a caliber.

[Aucald]

And you know what the Alliance has now to counter the shield?
https://d1u5p3l4wpay3k.cloudfront.ne...bcda29782ea364
https://encrypted-tbn0.gstatic.com/i...t-OKoOgDAx8RFA
https://vignette.wikia.nocookie.net/...20171108154238

Most dome-like shields in WoW are actually spheroid - that would no doubt extend protection against mole machines. The Lightforged teleporter pads require that a destination be warped or beamed in to the location, something that would require the shield already be breached to occur. I'm not sure how Void Elves themselves would be able to breach the shield - unless you mean using the Void itself to somehow bypass the shield and emerge in its interior (which may just be possible, but probably not for your rank and file Void Elf).

[elbleuet]

So guys ...

why didn't the Nightborne erect a massive shield to protect Undercity ?
Why don't they extend this to protect all Horde cities ?

And why doesn't Jaina stole the focusing Iris again to unleash a giant tide that would destroy Orgrimmar, Bilgewater Harbor, Darkspear Isle and Suramar ? Then you would have your end of Battle for Azeroth.

I got the answer for you : Super abilities in Wow don't exist.

So all your arguments are pointless. If Blizzard wants the Alliance to conquer Silvermoon city, they will. No matter of what you think about it.

[Darktbs]

Most dome-like shields in WoW are actually spheroid - that would no doubt extend protection against mole machines. The Lightforged teleporter pads require that a destination be warped or beamed in to the location, something that would require the shield already be breached to occur. I'm not sure how Void Elves themselves would be able to breach the shield - unless you mean using the Void itself to somehow bypass the shield and emerge in its interior (which may just be possible, but probably not for your rank and file Void Elf).

Void Rifts.The Void elfs showed, like many void beings being capable of teleporting/travel throught the void.

Since the Shield no longer has the Moonstones, they are maintained by Mages, and being Thalassians, they would know where this mages are, just like Arthas took down the Mages during Dalaran's invasion.

[Aucald]

Void Rifts.The Void elfs showed, like many void beings being capable of teleporting/travel throught the void.

Since the Shield no longer has the Moonstones, they are maintained by Mages, and being Thalassians, they would know where this mages are, just like Arthas took down the Mages during Dalaran's invasion.

Void Rifts may be able to make it through the barrier, that much is true - it's a relatively new form of magic that the shield is likely not adapted to. Not sure about knowing where the key Magisters would be, though; Rommath is shrewd enough to shift up Silvermoon's Arcane defenses following the defection of a number of Magisters to the Alliance. Also given that the shield is powered by the Sunwell, which is now a combination of Light and Arcane energies, it may well be able to dampen or block Void energies - it remains to be seen, though.

[Zulkhan]

I was talking about Blood Elves and you say me about Night Elves. What the point?

The point is that a people as prideful as Blood Elves have all the more reasons to apply tactics used even by the tree-hugging Night Elves.

[Dannihilate]

You got me with Thoradin's wall, btw. between Ghostlands and Eastern Plaguelands are mountains and only way through the mountaind is protected by big gate that looks like wall.

Plus the in-game model for Thoradin's Wall has the stairs on the wrong side, allowing the attacking army access to the ramparts, lol. GG vanilla art/asset team, GG.

- - - Updated - - -

Since the Shield no longer has the Moonstones, they are maintained by Mages, and being Thalassians, they would know where this mages are, just like Arthas took down the Mages during Dalaran's invasion.

Don't newbie Blood Elves fix those moonstones while leveling though? I vaguely remember some quests to fix them way back when I rolled a Belf alt back in BC.

[Deleted]

The point is that a people as prideful as Blood Elves have all the more reasons to apply tactics used even by the tree-hugging Night Elves.

I would say that Night Elves are prideful as much as Blood Elves are, it is simply that they are more subtle in their pride.
Also, Blizzard storytelling quality should be taken into account, for they have turned Kaldorei into a very shallow race. Kaldorei listen to demands and orders of a young human king, basically pissing on their thousands year old legacy.

[Zulkhan]

I would say that Night Elves are prideful as much as Blood Elves are, it is simply that they are more subtle in their pride

I mean, they could be even more prideful if a race of tree-huggers is willing to use scorch earth tactics against the enemy. But the fact that Blood Elves are arguably just as prideful and not tree-huggers, it makes them all the more likely to have no qualms whatsoever about leaving nothing but ashes to claim for the enemy.

[Deleted]

I mean, they could be even more prideful if a race of tree-huggers is willing to use scorch earth tactics against the enemy. But the fact that Blood Elves are arguably just as prideful and not tree-huggers, it makes them all the more likely to have no qualms whatsoever about leaving nothing but ashes to claim for the enemy.

Agreed.

Who do you think would be easier to besiege and conquer, Sin'dorei or Kaldorei?

[Flurryfang]

It would be highly likely, that the alliance would be pushed back. They have to go through the Ghostlands, which are still infested with Scourge and forest trolls, and then attack a city fortress of Silvermoon, filled with its own city army and a bunchload of defensive constructs. Silvermoon is also proberly the most easily defended city of the Horde outside of Thunder Bluff, since there is only one direction to attack it from and since it can be supported by the sea.

So yeah, it would require some very long supply lines for the Alliance through scourgefilled lands and to take down a pretty well fortified city. One should proberly also keep in mind, that the alliance has just been fighting with the Horde at Undercity and proberly took quite a number of losses. On top of that, the Sunwell is not far from Silvermoon and that thing would proberly draw all kinds of support for the Blood elfs.

[baskev]

You're talking about an expansion that isn't even out, it's a worthless waste time and it can't work as precedent in any way. At most, try to find some datamined text implying Draenei are purposefully leaving the Vindicaar out of the faction war for "moral" reasons. If you can't then give it up. I don't have the time nor the patience to run in circles like you did with @Friendlyimmolation.



Jaina almost destroyed Orgrimmar by abusing that shit. And no, the right to have is important since it's tied to the right to use it. If something belongs to you, you can do the fuck you want with what you own. If you don't own something and is merely borrowed, obviously you can't.



Ignoring my points is convenient, but futile. I specifically pointed out that self-preservation is what restrained Varian from using the Sha, because it may have been dangerous to the Alliance too. That's the argument Anduin used and that's what ultimately convinced Varian.



Ashran is a hellhole people hated to play, plus that conversation can be witnessed on the Alliance side only. I was just fortunate enough to wander around Stormshield at the very end of WoD with my Dwarf Shaman.



You're reiterating a point that is fundamentally worthless. The point is not if the Alliance is going to use superweapons or not at some point (although they're 100% going to grab that Azerite sweetness to counter the Horde, the extent of the use remains to be seen) the point is that the Alliance isn't anything particularly trustworthy on the matter, not when all the precedents have to do with things ranging from the preservation of their own safety to borrowed artifacts they're not allowed to use in the first place. Then, we have Ashran where the Alliance tries to claim a fucking superweapon, triggering the Horde and even their own allies.

Again, the actual point and the one @Friendlyimmolation tried to make you understand all along is that Blood Elves have not a single reason in the universe to trust the Alliance about matters of power use and abuse, both because of all the points I presented until now and, obviously, because of all people Blood Elves possibly trust the Alliance the less and hold a certain amount of bias, due to all the shared bitterness and consequent mistrust.

Dude this whole thread is about a expansion that is not out yet. And its not shown in any info so far in BFA. Not in lorderaon battle cinematic ( or zone fly through), not in any of the questing area's etc. And even if its weapon is not strong enough. It still has its beacon drop thingie. Do not get me wrong , blizzard needs to deal with this story wise. Because its a epic tactical advantage.

Again not talking about almost. Because the horde also has many example's like that. We are talking if the alliance ever follows thru. And yes they have tried to claim stuff etc.
BUT DID THEY EVER USE ANY OF THEM!!! nope...and that is the basis of my whole point about those weapons.

- - - Updated - - -

Again, you proved nothing, you proved the Alliance did not use other things, you have no proof what so ever they would not use the sunwell. Hell atleast you admit you can't see the future, so why are you trying to act as if you have proof they wouldn't use it when you have no idea?

You're trying to use precidence as proof that they would not use or abuse the sunwell with 100% certainty. That's not how that works. But I admire your ability to keep trying to run in circles.

If you had an example of the Alliance saying that they did not plan to use the Sunwell, you would have something to stand on. This example however doesn't exsist, and therefore you have no proof, only opinions.



"Proving your opinion can be right" is probably the most hilarious thing you can type, no shit it could be right, but you can't prove that it is right, yet another thing you are confusing.

Again its called a precedent. They have had epic stuff before and they never used it. It shows how the alliance has dealt and most likely ( 100%) will not use them. And no i can not future talk. But hey maybe its a crazy idea...but we are on a thread about what ifs. A thread of speculation and what might happen...you know, trying to predict stuff. So i do not have to know the future .

Have i ever said its a 100% certainty?? nope. But again i have shown example's enough. And you have yet to show me 1 WMD or big ass magic artifact that used against the horde. Divine bell and sunwell are both magic things that empower army's . And have energy ( atleast that is what they thought).
Again you feel to see the point of this thread.

[rydix]

Sorry but you just thrown bias on me and little more. You keep talking of "power level" as something that matters, when it doesn't. Old Horde and Scourge may have been uber powerful and yet the arcane knowledge of these forces was, well, nonexistent at worst and insignificant at best. Dalaran's roles in the Second War or Third War are entirely irrelevant, since we're not talking of how they would fare against such powerful forces but how they would against the shadow of what Quel'Thalas used to be in those very wars. And Dalaran has never directly warred against them, so it's entirely up on the air how the scenario would play out. Surely, comments like "You really think that 7k+ years of arcane knowledge would be countered by some petty human city" are worthless since, like it or not, humans magi as a whole are never showed to be inferior to elven magi.

Was I biased? Yes I was a little and I apologize. But I was not biased so much as how Blizzard is about humans.
The reason I started to talk about power levels was because you said :

...there's little that the elves may be able to do to undermine the Kirin Tor's efforts to bring it down without the numbers to sustain the Alliance's invasion.

And power level means something here and numbers of soldiers do not. Why? Because shield. Soldiers cannot penetrate it clearly but how would Kirin tor take it down if it was and probably still is ''takeable down'' only from inside? --> Saying that it is both arcane+holy and that it is a well of power filled with raw power greater than all mages combined. Some powerful artifact? If it is in power level with most powerful titan blood then yes but how often we come across such things? Can't remember one except maybe azurite but again both sides can have it so we have nullification + when arcane part is nullified there is still holy part which is not in Kirin tor domain. With that in mind I don't think you can brute force through it with just magi. And how would you undermine it? In some clever, witty way? There is no such way when there is only raw power unless there is more raw power.
Scourge had more power then Kirin tor and so did Old horde and knowing arcane didn't tip the edge in their favour. And yet they both couldn't brute force shield. Quel'thalas wasn't shown as some powerful force in those wars or (anywhere really) but their last standing ground, the shield, was more than enough to withstand any Azeroth's army. Many could defeat Quel'thalas' army but no one could breach the shield. And that what matters here.

Just look at Suramar shield. They put it down only because Legion's raw power would crush it eventually. Legion has smart individuals like Kirin tor has and they would use them to put shield down first effortlessly without stretching other's muscles and then talk about ''join or die''. Instead there was: "save me time brute forcing it and let us in" and that shows that there was only two ways. Now we can discuss about ''fel =/= arcane in terms of taking down shields'' but that would go off topic. And we didn't win Legion in open warfare, more like guerilla tactics so Legion was way more powerful force then we are in terms of raw power.

Only thing that could bring shield down would be some 'deus ex machina' event. I mean, with Blizzard's bad writing anything is possible.




And about 7k years.
If you can just imagine how long that is compared to how long humans practiced. And I haven't included those years on Kalimdor before and after War of the Ancients. You would really think that they would reveal all secrets they possessed to first human mages? Or even Kirin tor in later years?
Be in their position for a moment. Reckless usage of arcane magic led to Legion invasion. You would have obligation to monitor them (even spying them which would be more suiting seeing today's world). And why would you give them your greatest discoveries of something that can be used against you or really anything that would give them upper hand? I remind you that humans and elves are 2 different races and that elves are known to be xenophobic. Elves' public opinion cannot be shifted over night because they live several times longer than humans. So would you take some precautions before humans start to rock with arcane?
And human mages living let's say 90 years compared to several times longer elves' would make you thinking: ''Do elves have one trick in the sleeve more than humans?''

Lets assume that mental capabilities are the same. They have more time in life span and had more time as race. Logically elves would be not just more cunning but more experienced overall with more arcane knowledge. Any other interpretation = Blizzard's writers inconsistency, illogicality, contradiction in writing and ultimately bad writing.

There was never a situation where human mages could show that they are inferior/equal/superior to elven ones (looking as a group vs group where we could compare them as whole not individually). All we know that individually they can be equal and nothing was mentioned about how good is average human mage compared to elven mage (not 100% sure since new lore came out with chronicles). So that means that only their upper limit boundaries are the same. How often are they reached is the real question when comparing mage races. And since elves have more time I would vote for them in this matter.



I really love concept that every race can have something that it is good at but humans are all over the place and that disgusts me.

[Deleted]

Im wondering the logistics of getting that many people the BC expac and traversing that invisible wall into Silvermoon all at the same time.

[Beloren]

Im wondering the logistics of getting that many people the BC expac and traversing that invisible wall into Silvermoon all at the same time.

I think Warcraft traveller would have some numbers.