Ret Paladin changes are nice but...

[Deleted]

this whole build feels like bzzd is avenging the DP-fiasco (Crusade 7.1 cuz DP was underperforming) by forcing a RNG-proc-playstyle with maybe less downtime but also less control or a sustained playstyle with another inquision (btw Legion Jugdement window was a nerfed inqui).
maybe if talented HoW wouldnt be an execute, it would compensate the tradeoff, but since those aons of downtime Crusade (where HoW is freed from execution requirement) wont be the old, cuz it also has been nerfed to 10 stacks (15 before).
also Selfless Healer now defines an utility spec? 1 insta 22% heal every 3 Judgements?
where is Emancipate? y WoG still costs HoPo?
y is Consecration still not baseline, and made move-able via talent?
y is WoA not baseline?

Legion forced Retribution into the wheelchair, BFA will deliver this wheelchair to the retirement home - 40-60 s downtime/5m patchwerk for the right column build doesnt sound fun.

/edit: going to join the hate-squad. cuz talent design is simple:
lay out 3 playstyles
1. difference in rotational pacing aka fast medium slow
2. difference in damage and range
3. RNG vs static buffs vs playerskill (demanding) buffs

do not ever design AoE/ST layouts, all builds need to be viable on both, but exclusivly limit design to playstyles.

[Kuriyama]

Not sure if the topic was brought up already, but...
https://us.battle.net/forums/en/wow/topic/20761998259

Have "fun" reading.

That was a lot to read, and it just made me re-think whether I'll bother playing BfA or not. I don't want downtime. I don't want utility to be the focus of our spec. I couldn't give a crap about using GCDs to heal someone. Healers are there for a reason. I originally picked Ret 10 years ago because I loved the tier and the idea of being a flashy, holy warrior.

Also the OP stated that HoW can't be used above 20% even during Wings. Unless a new talent build went out, that's wrong. Talent says it can be used only on targets below 20% or during Wings.

[Parhelion]

IF they give us meaningful utility that can be vowen into our rotation (for example make Blessing of Sacrifice a weaker, but rotational ability) that compensates for lower DPS, then I can see this being an interesting approach.

They also need to take into account the time required for decision making. It's not like you can BoP someone as fast as you can work through your rotation. I'd rather see a smoother rotation with slightly lower (than pure) DPS if utilities were off the GCD.

[Ilivath]

That was a lot to read, and it just made me re-think whether I'll bother playing BfA or not. I don't want downtime. I don't want utility to be the focus of our spec. I couldn't give a crap about using GCDs to heal someone. Healers are there for a reason. I originally picked Ret 10 years ago because I loved the tier and the idea of being a flashy, holy warrior.

Also the OP stated that HoW can't be used above 20% even during Wings. Unless a new talent build went out, that's wrong. Talent says it can be used only on targets below 20% or during Wings.

I never said it is not usable during wings. I said that one of the proposed changes is to make it not usable during wings but doing much more damage.

[Ghiroza]

I don't see why you would ever want a class with low dps, low healing and some questionable utility? Why would you ever want this when you can just have a real healer or a real dps? Unless the utility ret brings is so fundamentally strong to make it mandatory, which Blizz would never allow, its just going to make a gimped spec.
Also take into account the ever increasing role of mythic plus in the game where healer dps is relevant. Why would you want a class that does low dps and low healing, it makes no sense, just play holy or disc, you can do low dps and high healing, negating rets role.

[Parhelion]

Unless the utility ret brings is so fundamentally strong to make it mandatory, which Blizz would never allow, its just going to make a gimped spec.

Ret utility is already fundamentally strong, especially regarding (self) preservation. I also don't know where you are getting your "low dps" argument. Not everyone can play a DoT class.

[Ghiroza]

I am getting my low dps argument from the posted thread, stating that blizzard had advised their design intent was for ret to do lower dps but instead bring more utility? Rets utility is incredibly situational, much of it is replicated by other classes, it is certainly not unique or powerful enough to warrant having lower dps than a standard dps class. Specially as most of rets utility is shared with holy as well and any good raid team will have a holy pala.

[Morally Grey Storm]

Ret utility is already fundamentally strong

No.

Whatever happended with being laconic.

[Deleted]

Holy Aegis or w/e that prot talent is called is a nice utility to be brought to refs and I would be happy

[Reith]

Ret utility is already fundamentally strong, especially regarding (self) preservation.

No, it's not. We don't even have Blessing of Sacrifice (even though both of the other specs have it? figure that one out) which would be useful.

I also don't know where you are getting your "low dps" argument. Not everyone can play a DoT class.

We used to be one of those DoT classes. Now we have none, for.. some reason. Class fantasy. Or something. Consecration doesn't count.

[Sigxy]

The "BfA - Retribution GCDs" topic on the WoW forums was a really good read, I agree with a lot of it. One thing I felt, myself, since I got into the Alpha was that Hammer of Wrath should be able to function like a proper execution. I never much enjoyed spamming it for lower damage during AW/Crusade back in the old days since it never felt rewarding but rather underwhelming instead. Thus, when the target IS at low health and you don't have AW/Crusade up, it just doesn't feel that fun to use. :<

Actually, now that I think about it - I almost wish we didn't get AW to begin with. I'm definitely one of the few who will think that, for sure, but eversince we got that spell we've end up more and more having to rely on doing damage during it's duration and outside of it, barely anything. Just look at Crusade in Legion. ;_:

[Ramiell]

I'm just going to leave this link here

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3aBwWvLuvOM

Look at those wing animations. He's also sporting a Libram. "But but he's NOT MELEE omg!!!" Yeah...yeah, whatever.

[rubenmsalles]

But they already nerf ret again
as always, all the blind people following the lame carrot throwed by blizz

[Spiral]

Well there goes that

[Ilivath]

New build is up. Some interesting changes in regards to GCD's.

Consecration now has a 20s CD. It will still do more damage than the past version.

Avenging Wrath and Crusade are now on the GCD as well.

[Kuriyama]

Literally my reaction to this latest build:



Buffing cons but putting it on a longer CD....okay I'll still never use that talent.

[Reith]

But they already nerf ret again
as always, all the blind people following the lame carrot throwed by blizz

They didn't nerf ret. Read all the changes. The sky is not falling. Reactionaries..

- - - Updated - - -

Cons slightly buffed, but only 1 HP in 20s.

Probably to prevent ret from building up HP outside of combat.

[Matrlx]

we have wings? i thought i am a butterfly

[Morally Grey Storm]

Overall buff, scaling nerf.
Can't get hyped enough to play this new wondrous finely tuned greatly enhanced spec!

[Deleted]

They didn't nerf ret. Read all the changes. The sky is not falling. Reactionaries..

- - - Updated - - -


Probably to prevent ret from building up HP outside of combat.

Sky is already on the bottom of the pit, so cant really fall any lower... it needs to go up quite a bit to even reach decent state.

General reply: Hope Hammer of Wrath is removed and never comes back to Ret... Such an "iconic" terribly designed band-aid terribly designed spec. How happy i was when i saw it gone... only for it to return and ruin it again.