Sakeesian's Bioware visit

[Elegiac]

Ummmm what?

I contradicted nothing. I said companies may THINK that not that it is a reality.

Which makes criticising companies for believing that 'indoctrination', apparently. As per your previous post.

Annd as for increased diversity i have no issues with it i DO however have issues with quotas and shaming games that don't do things certain ways(see kingdom come and various japanese games seen as "problematic")

If it makes no material difference why bother taking issue with the criticism.

I actually saw someone mention a game awhile ago with a transgender main character. Think they were trying to trip me up bit sounded badass. Still want to know the game.

The fact the MC was transgender doesn't matter the gameplay just sounded fun. And THAT should be the focus welll if a gameplay focused game. I can iverlook bad gameplay for a great story.

And the story/gameplay being good isn't really affected by diversity. Again, you're claiming you have no opinion on the issue.

[Elba]

Also no one is harassing anyone as that's just one of the many perpetuating lies that gets thrown around in SJW circles to keep that big bad GG bogeyman away.

GamerGate literally grew out of a hashtag and IRC where people gathered to doxx Zoe Quinn.

"August 18 2014: MundaneMatt and others gather in the #BurgersAndFries IRC channel and begin organizing a harassment campaign against Zoe Quinn, giving it its first name: "The Quinnspiracy." They immediately start talking about doxxing her and others. In their own words, "WE'RE CRASHING HER CAREER WITH NO SURVIVORS""

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With regard to video games and their content? Yeah...

Efforts to censor games have been struck down in the courts many times, the people who make them and their content are protected from the government, at least in the west.

They aren't protected from having their careers ruined unless they bend to the SJW mob's will, however.

Trump and Republicans could pass a law tomorrow banning all violent video games and it would be struck down in the courts before it could even be implemented.

Conversely someone like Sarkeesian can cherry pick things from a game and then misconstrue/misrepresent/if not outright lie about the game to paint the developer as a bunch of sexist/racist bigots and the game as a misogyny simulator in the press, harming their brand. And she can do it with impunity because anyone who criticizes her is likewise accused of being a sexist/racist bigot by the SJW mob. And those developers can hardly take her to court to protect their interests because it would make them look even worse; not to mention they probably can't even prove defamation since Sarkeesian has the perfect defense for the "making knowingly false damaging statements" of defamation in that she doesn't even fucking play the games she lies about, so how could she possibly make knowingly false statements about them.

Can you give me some examples of games Anita personally destroyed?

[jackofwind]

Just because someone doesn't play games doesn't mean they can't have an opinion on them,

It does, however, mean they can't have a truly informed opinion of them. That's basic scholarship - you need to use primary sources.

Sarkeesian is like a scholar trying to get peer reviewed with a paper that only uses secondary sources. To some people it seems reasonable, but to people who are educated it's laughable.

[Bisso]

GamerGate literally grew out of a hashtag and IRC where people gathered to doxx Zoe Quinn.

"August 18 2014: MundaneMatt and others gather in the #BurgersAndFries IRC channel and begin organizing a harassment campaign against Zoe Quinn, giving it its first name: "The Quinnspiracy." They immediately start talking about doxxing her and others. In their own words, "WE'RE CRASHING HER CAREER WITH NO SURVIVORS""

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Can you give me some examples of games Anita personally destroyed?

I'm not gonna enter this old debate. But I invite you to read through the whole IRC dump containing those lines. Inside, you will see your quotes, along with other disgusting stuff. But also more than half of the chat is about how to get the attention of media about corruption of journalists. It's IRC, internet, no rule as to who gets in, who can speak, and about what and using what language. And if you grab any website chat log. And pick the lines that fits your argument, you will always find what you need to build a case. Give me your facebook conversation log of the last year. I will hand pick 5 lines of my choice. And I can make you the most hated person on the internet. It's easy.

https://puu.sh/boAEC/f072f259b6.txt here's the link

What you just did was search for your confirmation bias. You googled something like: gamergate is an harassment campaign or something along those lines, and you found exactly what you were looking for, a confirmation of what you already thought. If I google: Anita Sarkeesian is a fraud, I will find exactly the opposite argument. That's not helpful.

[Sorrior]

Which makes criticising companies for believing that 'indoctrination', apparently. As per your previous post.



If it makes no material difference why bother taking issue with the criticism.



And the story/gameplay being good isn't really affected by diversity. Again, you're claiming you have no opinion on the issue.

No i never said that. Your tendency to defebd a pro censorship "this is ok this isn't" outlook mixed with an almost laughable tendency to hesr the worst/assume it while seeing things that are not their does sound like someone indoctrinated by an ideology though.

And i take issue less with criticism and more with how it has reached a point where some companies refuse to release games and people change their games to meet certain quotas.

It doesn't promote creative ir artistic freedom and leads to defacto censorship.

Annd i have an opinion let people make what they want REGARDLESS of race or gender. Having some kind of pseudo diversity quota and shaming developers/writers for cliches/stereotypes does nit agree with that view.

[Elegiac]

No i never said that. Your tendency to defebd a pro censorship "this is ok this isn't" outlook mixed with an almost laughable tendency to hesr the worst/assume it while seeing things that are not their does sound like someone indoctrinated by an ideology though.

And i take issue less with criticism and more with how it has reached a point where some companies refuse to release games and people change their games to meet certain quotas.

It doesn't promote creative ir artistic freedom and leads to defacto censorship.

Annd i have an opinion let people make what they want REGARDLESS of race or gender. Having some kind of pseudo diversity quota and shaming developers/writers for cliches/stereotypes does nit agree with that view.

Which has led to an environment disproportionately dominated by a singular type of white male wherein any divergence from the norm is usually representative of harmful stereotypes.

So, no. Holding developers to a higher standard in terms of diversity and storytelling isn't a restriction of artistic freedom.

[Templar 331]

Which has led to an environment disproportionately dominated by a singular type of white male wherein any divergence from the norm is usually representative of harmful stereotypes.

Such as? Serious question. The only games I've seen that have "harmful stereotypes" were the ones that did it on purpose.

So, no. Holding developers to a higher standard in terms of diversity and storytelling isn't a restriction of artistic freedom.

Yes, it is.

[Deleted]

I mean who cares. Mass Effcet is dead, Dragon Age is no where to be seen and they' don't seem to be working on a star wars game. Bioware is clearly the next on EAs chopping block. If Anthem undersells they're done.

[Deleted]

Your opinion is worthless. See what I did there? Because someone on the internet had the balls to have an opinion, it's automatically worthless. Because I said so. And no, your opinion isn't worthless. But neither is hers.

Gaming totally is a boy's club, but we guys often don't see it because, guess what? We're guys. The industry was literally built around our demographic. Just because someone doesn't play games doesn't mean they can't have an opinion on them, and she's really good at picking things apart and analyzing them. She makes a bunch of great points in her videos, but people just zero in on the stuff they don't like and use that as ammunition to snipe the whole thing. It's sad.

Not catering to the demographics that built your industry with their money is an insane business strategy. Furthermore thinking girl gamers need special features inserted or features changed in order to enjoy the game is asinine.

[tyrlaan]

Not catering to the demographics that built your industry with their money is an insane business strategy. Furthermore thinking girl gamers need special features inserted or features changed in order to enjoy the game is asinine.

So, by your logic you play with Barbie dolls, right?

[durenas]

Not catering to the demographics that built your industry with their money is an insane business strategy. Furthermore thinking girl gamers need special features inserted or features changed in order to enjoy the game is asinine.

I don't think you need to stop catering to the original demographic to start catering to more demographics. Girls like different things than guys, in general. Trying to come up with more variety in games isn't inherently a bad thing. And I don't think anyone's suggesting they change... let's take an upcoming game, Anthem for example. Nobody's saying that they want to change Anthem to make it more female friendly, and even if they did add some stuff that girls would like, is that necessarily going to make it poison for guys? Is there some kind of testosterone index in games that once you go below a certain proportion of testosterone to estrogen, guys can't play it? Does a game stop being enjoyable if girls like it? I don't think so.

[Deleted]

I'm honestly glad I don't care about gaming anymore and that I enjoyed it to it's fullest during the "golden age".

Remember when developers were making games to be fun without PC constraints and without fear of being torn apart by crazy people?

[Elba]

I'm not gonna enter this old debate. But I invite you to read through the whole IRC dump containing those lines. Inside, you will see your quotes, along with other disgusting stuff. But also more than half of the chat is about how to get the attention of media about corruption of journalists. It's IRC, internet, no rule as to who gets in, who can speak, and about what and using what language. And if you grab any website chat log. And pick the lines that fits your argument, you will always find what you need to build a case. Give me your facebook conversation log of the last year. I will hand pick 5 lines of my choice. And I can make you the most hated person on the internet. It's easy.

https://puu.sh/boAEC/f072f259b6.txt here's the link

What you just did was search for your confirmation bias. You googled something like: gamergate is an harassment campaign or something along those lines, and you found exactly what you were looking for, a confirmation of what you already thought. If I google: Anita Sarkeesian is a fraud, I will find exactly the opposite argument. That's not helpful.

As I said a myriad times, the only reason gamergate exists is to harass people. The thing I am talking about happened right after Gjoni made Quinn a target by accusing her of infidelity. Literally 3 days later. That is literally how that shit begin.

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Not catering to the demographics that built your industry with their money is an insane business strategy.

Gaming used to be marketed for both men and women. Until the 80s when marketing decided you can make more money by segregating toys.

Furthermore thinking girl gamers need special features inserted or features changed in order to enjoy the game is asinine.

Special features being not being objectified mayhaps...

[LilSaihah]

I'm curious if anyone's actually looking forward to Anthem. It seems like it's just Destiny but a little bit different. If I wanted to buy a shit shooter MMO from a shit publisher with shit business practices I'd just buy Destiny.

[Huulo]

I can, absolutely.

Let's take her discussion about damsel in distress. She spends a lot of time noting the occurrences of the theme where a "man" rescues a "woman", and then spends a lot of time objecting to this based on the role of the "woman" being passive and the role of the "man" being active. However, when you are playing a game, this isn't "man" vs "woman", this is your character vs something worth rescuing. In many games, you are rescuing another "man" or a group of "men and women" or a completely inanimate treasure, etc. In many games, your character can be a "woman", too. There is no big deal whatsoever. A "man" rescuing a "woman" is used because it just helps set up the scenario quicker by involving stereotypes (you immediately get that a "princess" is absolutely worth rescuing and that you'd better hurry!), but it is not at all key, it is completely replaceable. But Anita makes a big deal out of it and uses it to rile people up. Why does she do it? Because that's how she makes money. That's all.

You want to play as a woman character? Be my guest and suggest that to developers. Those who only have males do not have that on purpose, the reason is predominantly that their resources were only good for a single character so they picked a "man" because they think most players are male or whatever and that choice will bring them more money than the other choice. They might be mistaken, too, and if it starts looking like going with a "woman" by default is better in terms of copies, they will gladly go that way. But Anita makes a big deal out of this because, well, she has to make a big deal out of something.

It's the same with nearly everything I watched from her.

She is just a professional victim. Professional victims are abhorrent because they parasite on others and detract both those who are being duped into the fake baseless outrage and those who aren't being duped into it but have to respond, from solving actual problems that matter. Anita and people like her are doing a huge disservice to everyone.

Sounds to me like you disagree with her opinion, which in and of itself would not explain the amount of hatred directed at Sarkeesian. Honestly, what is so scary about the idea that maybe, video games could be made more appealing to women? We saw what happened when Marvel finally made a movie appealing to people of color after 17 movies about white male heroes. That’s not derogatory about white males by the way, it’s just a fact. See the difference? There’s a difference between subjecting video games to critical analysis, what Sarkeesian does, and being a “professional victim.” She isn’t getting people “riled up,” except the people who firmly believe that video games must never change. Her points are actually very reasonable, and posts on this forum are much angrier in tone than anything she’s produced.

Let me ask you this: if Sarkeesian is criticizing video games the wrong way, what is the right way? Are we allowed to point out that video games of the last 15-20 have shifted to target almost exclusively young men, which was not always the case, or is that a forbidden topic?

[Deleted]

As I said a myriad times, the only reason gamergate exists is to harass people. The thing I am talking about happened right after Gjoni made Quinn a target by accusing her of infidelity. Literally 3 days later. That is literally how that shit begin.

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Gaming used to be marketed for both men and women. Until the 80s when marketing decided you can make more money by segregating toys.



Special features being not being objectified mayhaps...

SJW bulls*it!

I know probably more female gamers than the average dude and i've NEVER heard anything like that opinion being voiced. Who comes up with this garbage?

[Deleted]

Sounds to me like you disagree with her opinion, which in and of itself would not explain the amount of hatred directed at Sarkeesian. Honestly, what is so scary about the idea that maybe, video games could be made more appealing to women? We saw what happened when Marvel finally made a movie appealing to people of color after 17 movies about white male heroes. That’s not derogatory about white males by the way, it’s just a fact. See the difference? There’s a difference between subjecting video games to critical analysis, what Sarkeesian does, and being a “professional victim.” She isn’t getting people “riled up,” except the people who firmly believe that video games must never change. Her points are actually very reasonable, and posts on this forum are much angrier in tone than anything she’s produced.

Let me ask you this: if Sarkeesian is criticizing video games the wrong way, what is the right way? Are we allowed to point out that video games of the last 15-20 have shifted to target almost exclusively young men, which was not always the case, or is that a forbidden topic?

The only way is to let developers create their games how they envisioned them without been forced to be all inclusive.

[Elegiac]

The only way is to let developers create their games how they envisioned them without been forced to be all inclusive.

"The right way to criticize video games is not to criticize video games."

Really informed attitude there.

[Deleted]

"The right way to criticize video games is not to criticize video games."

Really informed attitude there.

Let the buyers critique with their wallets, developers don't need some biased looney dictating them how to express their artistic vision.

[Huulo]

I'm not gonna enter this old debate. But I invite you to read through the whole IRC dump containing those lines. Inside, you will see your quotes, along with other disgusting stuff. But also more than half of the chat is about how to get the attention of media about corruption of journalists. It's IRC, internet, no rule as to who gets in, who can speak, and about what and using what language. And if you grab any website chat log. And pick the lines that fits your argument, you will always find what you need to build a case. Give me your facebook conversation log of the last year. I will hand pick 5 lines of my choice. And I can make you the most hated person on the internet. It's easy.

https://puu.sh/boAEC/f072f259b6.txt here's the link

What you just did was search for your confirmation bias. You googled something like: gamergate is an harassment campaign or something along those lines, and you found exactly what you were looking for, a confirmation of what you already thought. If I google: Anita Sarkeesian is a fraud, I will find exactly the opposite argument. That's not helpful.

How about the common sense argument? At the start of Gamergate, 100% of its focus was a conspiracy theory about a game developer named Zoe Quinn. That's just a fact. I know because I observed it happening first-hand. Have you ever thought about the irony, that if Gamergate really was a group concerned about ethical standards in video games, they would probably be funding Anita Sarkeesian? She's actually doing what they give lip service too.