Master Looter

[Accendor]

I don't like some of the trade restrictions on personal loot. If I get a chestpiece 5 ilevels higher but with stats I hate, I can't give it to someone who does like the stats way more. It sucks, and it's that simple. I have to tell the person, "Sorry, I'd give you the chest if I could since I'm just going to shard it, but Blizzard is forcing me to keep it for some awful reason."

I know the locks were designed to keep people from mooching stuff in pug runs. Maybe they could implement a personal loot+ system that just takes the trade restrictions off and leaves regular personal loot.

It is actually even worse because the correct solution would be to NOT shard the item but keep it in your inventory so you can trade the loot the next time.

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It seems like the major problem is that people think loot is going to be "wasted" far more often. Either through items that players won't use or minor upgrades that would've been enormous for others. Solution seems to be providing a system that will slowly make sure you can't actually get screwed by RNG so that at least the reasonable players won't feel too bad when they don't get the 45 ilvl upgrade because it was +5 for the warlock or whatever.

Don't really think losing ML is a problem but they need a replacement that doesn't ruin what ML did well when used properly. A lot of stuff people use it for is subjective like "I think this player is better" or whatever but other times its an objectively simple solution to give your warrior a 50 ilvl upgrade instead of handing the DK a +5. Imo they should favor the player with significantly worse gear (+15 ilvls or more) and/or expand the coin system to let you target specific things slowly. They'd kill whatever it is they don't like about the current ML and mitigate a large portion of the issues

But why fix something thst isnt broken?

[Magistrate]

Loot councils get to steer loot for the benefit of the raid group, overall. If a plate item drops and 3 different dps classes can use it, it may be BiS for one, and just an upgrade for the other two. Who should get it? If you care about the raid, you give it to the person for whom it is BiS.

There are downsides, but that right there is the upside, to my understanding. If you're not in a competitive guild, then it doesn't really matter either way, but if you're racing for world firsts, giving that bis to the right player matters.

I feel like if you're in a guild that's that serious about world firsts, your members are probably highly experienced, team players that know when they should be sharing a piece of gear. And that gives a pretty good barometer of if they should continue being a member.

It just seems to shift the responsibility, tbh. The end result should be the same either way. Can you trust your guild members or your guild leader more? Can you have discussions on who should have what loot? Does the raid leader know every class's/spec's BiS loot and ilvl? If not, who does? Probably whoever is playing that spec.

[chrisnumbers]

Many guilds will be affected by this in a bad way, not just Method and the other top raiders.
For those of you who raided for any significant length of time from the start of Legion, many of you would have noticed how lucky and unlucky your guild was at receiving random legendaries early on. Compare player performance of those who got their BIS legendary on the first try, to those who got any of their worst or even non-dps legendary as their first. Yea you know what I'm talking about. This is what we're going to see in BfA, with some players getting the best luck and some getting the worst without any say in distribution of loot to even things out like most guilds currently do.
Sure it could even out later but the start of every tier is going to feel just like that.

(my first 3 legendaries as a fire mage were prydaz, boots and chest and I'm still salty.)

[Accendor]

Because they won't be able to invite the random PuG to fill a vacant spot and then pass them over when a piece of loot drops that they can use. A guild I was in briefly back in WoD used to do this shit. Say we pugged in a ranged DPS like a hunter and a piece of mail dropped off the boss. Even if that hunter rolled higher, the gear would often go to a hunter or shaman in the guild. Stupid move IMO when we could have potentially recruited that player to the guild.

Sorry that you had a bad ecperience but rest assured that this was the exception.

[netherflame]

Its the forced part, personal loot is whatever, but forcing everyone to go off this loot system it destroys the typical guild functionality.

[Accendor]

Personal Loot is already an upside in the battle against split runs as long as you can't trade items that are an upgrade in terms of iLevel.
If in addition to that Blizzard also adds extra restrictions for the first X weeks of each Tier, there should be a lot less burnout in the game.

Thete is no burnout that we need to discuss about because it affects so few people that it really does not matter.

[Allenseiei]

It doesnt fix anything. Legion already requires a certain amount of members of a guild to active master loot. You should never force organizations how they should run.

Pug's dont gain anything from this change and you kill loot redistribution in a guild which has been the most important factor since raiding started.

You destroy the ability to redistribute things that will help you in progress and increases the amount of loot that is thrown away because of stat unbalance.
If a fire mage gets a no crit item, but its higher ilvl he wont be able to trade it to the guy in raid that those stats are bis. This is even worse with trinkets and azerite armor.

The most punished by this are not the world first guilds (which are 0.01%) but the rest of the mythic guilds who raid 10 hours a week.

[Ozyorkbourne]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-3nWMlxf4lI

I've never disagreed more with a video. Why are high end raiders complaining their taking Master loot away? I thought high end raiders hated being forced to do split runs? Don't guilds like Method hate running 5+ characters through heroic every week? Wouldn't forcing personal loot make it easier for other guilds to compete with method? Why are people complaining about removing Master loot as an option? Aren't you tired of Method winning every single race? Don't you want more people to take up high end raiding?

What's wrong with forcing it for a few weeks until a few guilds have killed the final boss on mythic? Or restricting heroic clears per account during the WF race and banning account sharing players?

Amongold
High end raider

Pick one

"Don't guilds like Method hate running 5+ characters through heroic every week?" - They do it 2-3 times. Then the tier is over and they just do split mythics selling mounts/clears for gold while gearing alts. The same as lots of other guilds.

"Wouldn't forcing personal loot make it easier for other guilds to compete with method?" - No. The average player is awful. Think how terrible the average player is regardless of gear. Half of them are worse than that. Method are where they are because they can invest the time in day raiding and are half competent, which is 49.9% more competent than the average 3/11 mythic raider monkey.

If Blizzard weren't erect for titanforge/socket procs then there'd be far less need to run splits, but forced personal loot is just another desperate attempt to try and help casual Timmy up the ladder that he doesn't really want to climb and doesn't know how too.

I don't understand why non high-end raiders who aren't even affected by split runs, give a fuck about split runs. I see in anotherpost you say "Trying to think of a solution to split runs. Ban guilds who do split runs with more than 3 characters? Banning guilds who do above a certain number of split runs from getting a WF kill as cheating? " and I don't understand why you care. It doesn't even remotely impact you even a little.

Is this a troll post and i've been baited or are you just that vapid? Anyone who's so deluded as to believe the only reason the top 5-20 guilds are where they are is because of split runs has no place publicising their opinions. They win the race because they can sit there and throw 300 tries in to a 10min+ boss in 4-5 days of play.

You know what'll happen if you make loot untradeable? They'll still run 6+ split runs trying to gear up a good comp, except now it'll be runs of 8 of one class, so at least one gets geared and becomes viable for bosses where they need say, 4 druids or 4 warlocks.

You linked an Asmongold video but seem to have ignored the primary point. What should Blizzard do about split runs? Nothing. Absolutely nothing. It's fine.

Stop trying to ruin things that don't include you. I don't like football so I don't try and tell people how to play it. Get over yourself.

[last1214]

I honestly don't know, If guilds actually funnel loot for GM and officers with ML I can totally see these situations happening.

Are you 100% sure it works like that tho? Doesn't personal loot has a range of items to drop per boss based on the group size and then RNG decides who gets them?

While Personal loot is turned on, bosses have a range of items that can drop per boss (loot table) that can drop for for each individual player based on thier loot spec. If master loot is turned on, anything in the loot table can drop, reguardless of the classes/specs present, with one guaranteed drop for every 5 players not loot locked to an encounter, and % chance for the remainder of players in the last group. So a 13 man group has 2 drops that are guaranteed and a 3/5 chance for a 3rd drop. Tier bosses work a tiny bit differently,(I think you get one tier peice for every 10 players and a % after that for additional tier pieces, on top of the other regular drops in the loot table, but dont quote me on that.) But, there is no tier in the next expansion wich leads me to belive there will be a slight decrease in the amount of gear that can drop in a raid (but drops should be useless less often.)

Master loot is largely desireable now over persoanl loot because you want to ensure that your raiders are compleeting thier tier set bonuses as quickly as possible. So my guild would maake sure player "A" was prioritized in getting a tier piece to give him a 4 set bonus over player "B" who was only getting a 3rd piece. With legendaries and wierd BIS combinations we wanted to controll the randomness to a degree. None of these things are factors in the upcomming expansion, so if loot changes, it is fine by me.

Also worth noteing that it is the only option in Mythic + and that works out fine. There is very little loot drama. Although, I guess i have seen the whole bring your mage so you can trade me that relic if it drops. I havent seen too much of the whole give me item "x" or ill g-kick you posts going around. If youre really in that kind of guild, maybe do yourself a favor and leave.

[SirCowdog]

That's actually amazing.

It actually isn't until they fix secondary stats. You could get an item with higher iLVL with the absolute wrong secondaries on it and not be able to trade it to someone else that it would be perfect for.

Maybe this will change if they fix the importance of secondaries to where higher iLVL is ALWAYS an upgrade. But even then there should still be the option to trade items.

[Magistrate]

"Wouldn't forcing personal loot make it easier for other guilds to compete with method?" - No. The average player is awful. Think how terrible the average player is regardless of gear. Half of them are worse than that. Method are where they are because they can invest the time in day raiding and are half competent, which is 49.9% more competent than the average 3/11 mythic raider monkey.

Is Method composed of the average player? If not, then this makes no difference, does it? I don't see the difference.

[Hey There Guys its Metro]

Without the option of gearing select players there is no competition. Don't expect this to go live.

[Scrysis]

It is actually even worse because the correct solution would be to NOT shard the item but keep it in your inventory so you can trade the loot the next time.

That is a terrible solution (Thanks, Blizz). I play a healer. With all the mana, sleep, and health potions. Then like several different kinds of food. Tomes to change talents. Gear that I swap to, etc. AND I'm generally the person that gets the loot to shard off of guild runs. I don't HAVE the space to just keep random pieces of loot just on the off-chance I get that same piece next time so I can give it to the person. What if they get the piece next time? Then I will have wasted a slot in my bags.

Maybe just take off trade restrictions in guild runs.

[Polarthief]

Because Personal rewards by raw RNG instead of doing something sensible such as Loot Council where you reward players for good attendance and not being a total shitter. In my guild, we gear players up based on the good it will do the raid team. If player X wants it and usually dies to mechanics, pulls 50% of the DPS he should be doing, and shows up late, he's likely going to lose out to the player who does much higher DPS, doesn't die to bullshit, and shows up on time.

Personal literally just hands you loot, even garbage you don't want. It's an awful system and has no place in organized raiding.

Personal also means you can only get what Blizzard deems your character can use. Tanks right now are mostly running some DPS gear at times and with Personal, you simply wouldn't get that. Sure you can trade gear (assuming it's not a 1+ iLvl upgrade for you) but that takes up so much extra time that it honestly causes more loot drama instead of less. I don't find the shitter who doesn't pull their weight getting loot as fair when there are much better players who could use that loot. It's a shit system.

They also just made a MESS due to weapons. All they had to do was give all primary stats to all weapons to fix that, but they'd rather everyone just have no brain and go Personal. It questions the players' intelligence, and that's honestly just fucked of them to do.

[Magistrate]

Because Personal rewards by raw RNG instead of doing something sensible such as Loot Council where you reward players for good attendance and not being a total shitter.

wait i get it now

[Sosuke Aizen]

maybe make heroic loot untradeable for the 1st month? Trying to think of a solution to split runs. Ban guilds who do split runs with more than 3 characters? Banning guilds who do above a certain number of split runs from getting a WF kill as cheating?

Although I love the idea of personal loot, it won’t be fair to ban people for split runs. Believe me when I say I’m an advocate for PL but unless it’s against the TOS to do split runs on your personal paid account, I would rather master loot stays. This discussed change has brought about so much drama from both sides - if it continues, it may even rival the fly or no fly discussions. Blizzard will really need to think hard on this one. If anything, they should crack down on account sharing for these competitions.

Sorry for any typos, I’m replying from my mobile and we know how autocorrect is .

[Better]

People like things they're used to. Blizz is taking away a system many guilds use/used for ages. When there's really no reason to take it away, players will find a way to do something equally hardcore as split runs, so it's not even getting rid of them.

[Erolian]

It is actually even worse because the correct solution would be to NOT shard the item but keep it in your inventory so you can trade the loot the next time.

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But why fix something thst isnt broken?

Clearly they believe something is broken though. I might not really agree with their change, especially without adjustments to other systems, but we can't sit here and act like bad things don't happen with ML. They do. The way lockouts, alts, and ML are setup it does encourage degenerate gameplay if you really want to win. I can understand how they don't like that. They just need to fix that without making the game worse. It wouldn't really be that difficult to create a "smart" personal loot that in the majority of cases handed out loot correctly if you ignored player skill. It would probably be a pretty decent argument after that point to say if you regret loot going to someone on the team that they probably shouldn't be on the team.

[Polarthief]

The problem with Personal is that it facilitates this low IQ attitude towards gear. They want you to look at the gear you just got and check its iLvl. Is it a higher number? If yes, you just equip it.

Some of us want a deeper system. I'm not saying it needs to be so deep that you have to sim every possible upgrade, but I don't think +1 iLvl should just be auto-equipped. That's not customization, that's just putting on the highest number. Right now, the same spec can have differences in gear. Fire Mage right now can either go a heavy Crit build or a heavy Mastery build. Shit like that just disappears with this "iLvl is king" attitude.

In addition, Personal also just rewards randomly, so that guy who shows up late, never pulls his weight, and dies to every mechanic can get their BiS pieces from every single boss, while the people who actually give a damn about performance and show up early and never die to stupid shit like fire NEVER get loot. It's a horribly unfair system. People in favor of Personal are more players that either don't want to deal with simming, don't want to have an ounce of thought when it comes to gearing, or bad players who likely lost out on loot because they're bad. Forced Personal does nothing except remove player choice from organized raiding while adding NOTHING to pug and random groups. They already removed ML from groups with <80%(?) guilded runs so why do they need to go further than that?

[Morg]

I cbf reading this whole thing but the people who think personal loot only will stop splits are delusional. It will simply mean there's less Choice on what alts you bring due to armour types and those doing it have to invest more time to keep alts ilvl high probably through more m+ runs.

Master loot has its purpose, our guild (1 night mythic) use LC and it's working well since the swap from suicide. Sure not everyone loves it but having a choice is not a bad thing. I'd never condemn a guild for using either option and I can choose to raid with them or others depending on whether I like it or not. Some of you act like your bring forced to raid with a loot system you don't like under duress