Sakeesian's Bioware visit

[Rennadrel]

Maybe its a good thing? BioWare needs some fiction writers and she has A LOT of experience...

If you consider being a bullshitter qualifications for a writer.

[Zython]

Its someone with a bad opinion though. Thats what has people worried, not offended. Maybe you should try to see the forest for the trees here man.

Don't you guys get angry about people being "persecuted" for "wrong-think"?

- - - Updated - - -

I mean the whole concept is racism on the part of the people trying to change things. Look at Black Panther. People claiming that with BP black people finally have someone to relate to are inherently racist saying they can't somehow relate to a white character simply on the color of their skin.

Well, just take a look at how many white people complain when someone isn't white. Clearly, they feel the concept has merit.

[Scrysis]

Hm let´s see i´m saying that it´s indifferent what gender the Mc has and you´re trying to force your idea that it´s bad if the MC is male because no woman ever would be playing a game with a male MC...

Still don´t get what i´m saying?

- - - Updated - - -



I would let a female gamer play the game and see if she likes it?

And please nobody says it´s bad to make female MCs but you on the othe rhand say it´s totally bad to make male MCs...

Apparently you aren't letting a female gamer play it and give a perspective on it. You say one thing, and do something else. Your first reply to me was "People like you´re the chancer that has overtaken the gaming indutrie and are trying to force their shitty belives on everyone." /endquote

Yeah, surprise! You've been talking to someone with a vagina the whole time. . . . . GASP. Not only that, but I've played the games I've mentioned. We do exist! We do have opinions! We have money to spend! I like spending mine on games! I want to be a Bioware/Blizzard/Bestheda/Eidios customer! Doesn't that mean I should give them feedback as to what I like and don't like, so that they know how to make things that would entice me to give them my cash?

having breast doesn't make something Sexualized though, something like alexstra or old sylvanas was sexualized something like a female dwarf look at say moria or a female cow look at that magatha was not portrayed in the same way.

Moira is a very new edition to the Blizzard IP collection, and there was a lot of backlash among some gamers about her inclusion. I applaud Blizzard though. They're getting better. (And I like Moira very much.) And the edition of Kul'Tiran humans is nice for the change in body image (although, I wouldn't say no to the women being shaped like Zarya.) With some of the new races, like the Nightborne, the sexual dimorphism isn't as extreme. That being said, I would have loved to have a female moose with a big ass set of antlers, instead of the small ones they get. I'd love to see some races where the female is bigger than the male for once -- maybe in a snake or raptor bird race which would be appropriate. There are a few other things, but I chopped off the book I was writing.

[Tabrotar]

Apparently you aren't letting a female gamer play it and give a perspective on it. You say one thing, and do something else. Your first reply to me was "People like you´re the chancer that has overtaken the gaming indutrie and are trying to force their shitty belives on everyone." /endquote

Yeah, surprise! You've been talking to someone with a vagina the whole time. . . . . GASP. Not only that, but I've played the games I've mentioned. We do exist! We do have opinions! We have money to spend! I like spending mine on games! I want to be a Bioware/Blizzard/Bestheda/Eidios customer! Doesn't that mean I should give them feedback as to what I like and don't like, so that they know how to make things that would entice me to give them my cash?



Moira is a very new edition to the Blizzard IP collection, and there was a lot of backlash among some gamers about her inclusion. I applaud Blizzard though. They're getting better. (And I like Moira very much.) And the edition of Kul'Tiran humans is nice for the change in body image (although, I wouldn't say no to the women being shaped like Zarya.) With some of the new races, like the Nightborne, the sexual dimorphism isn't as extreme. That being said, I would have loved to have a female moose with a big ass set of antlers, instead of the small ones they get. I'd love to see some races where the female is bigger than the male for once -- maybe in a snake or raptor bird race which would be appropriate. There are a few other things, but I chopped off the book I was writing.

The whole point was that you said that male MCs are bad because no woman ever would play a game with them in it...

Ofc it´s better to have a choice as what you want to play but are game slike i don´t know MGS now somehow bad because we only can play as Snake?

Or are game slike Parasite Eve not for men because the MC is a woman?

[Elegiac]

This is primarily a gaming forum, and to many gamers Sakeesian is the anti-christ. She is not just one person, she is the figure head for a noisy group of people who want to restrict artists and programmers freedoms when creating games.

Which amusing considering the 'pro-artist' crowd are just as eager to restrict developers when they do something that isn't to their liking.

[Lorgar Aurelian]

Apparently you aren't letting a female gamer play it and give a perspective on it. You say one thing, and do something else. Your first reply to me was "People like you´re the chancer that has overtaken the gaming indutrie and are trying to force their shitty belives on everyone." /endquote

Yeah, surprise! You've been talking to someone with a vagina the whole time. . . . . GASP. Not only that, but I've played the games I've mentioned. We do exist! We do have opinions! We have money to spend! I like spending mine on games! I want to be a Bioware/Blizzard/Bestheda/Eidios customer! Doesn't that mean I should give them feedback as to what I like and don't like, so that they know how to make things that would entice me to give them my cash?



Moira is a very new edition to the Blizzard IP collection, and there was a lot of backlash among some gamers about her inclusion. I applaud Blizzard though. They're getting better. (And I like Moira very much.) And the edition of Kul'Tiran humans is nice for the change in body image (although, I wouldn't say no to the women being shaped like Zarya.) With some of the new races, like the Nightborne, the sexual dimorphism isn't as extreme. That being said, I would have loved to have a female moose with a big ass set of antlers, instead of the small ones they get. I'd love to see some races where the female is bigger than the male for once -- maybe in a snake or raptor bird race which would be appropriate. There are a few other things, but I chopped off the book I was writing.

don't really have time to go into all of this at the moment, but moria has been around since classic and has had a spot light since cata shes really not all that new.

[Macaquerie]

This is primarily a gaming forum, and to many gamers Sakeesian is the anti-christ. She is not just one person, she is the figure head for a noisy group of people who want to restrict artists and programmers freedoms when creating games. Whether you agree with her opinions or not, that is what she is doing. She is a red flag to a bull wherever she goes, so why anyone let alone a struggling game studio would want her anywhere near them is mystifying.

But to most gamers, Sarkeesian is irrelevant, while all of the negative reaction to her videos is exactly the sort of nonsense that makes people cringe at being labeled as a gamer, or associating with gaming culture.

And honestly, I'm not sure why people get so passionate about defending scantily clad wank fodder in video games anyway. Doesn't that shit ever get old for you?

[Scrysis]

The whole point was that you said that male MCs are bad because no woman ever would play a game with them in it...

Ofc it´s better to have a choice as what you want to play but are game slike i don´t know MGS now somehow bad because we only can play as Snake?

Or are game slike Parasite Eve not for men because the MC is a woman?

Go back, re-read what I wrote. I quite literally said nothing of the sort. I mentioned a couple of things: 1) Bioware might be looking to make games friendlier to women, 2) Is there something wrong with making a lead character female? and 3) Can we make male leads more female-friendly?

NOWHERE did I mention that male main characters are bad. Quite literally nowhere. It wasn't even implied.

Hell, I even compared TWO MALE leads in two different games, and cited that they feel quite different, even when considering genre and game mechanics.

Since I'm not clear enough. . . .

The depiction of women in some games alienates women. In some games, women are depicted as objects, things to be abused, or things to be rescued because they are helpless and without agency.

I'm going to leave out the worst abusers.

How many of you played the "card game" in Witcher 1? You should know what I mean. Yeah. Now pretend you're a woman, and the card game is about men. It feels like shit, doesn't it? I quite literally had to ask my guy friends if dudes in general view women as sexual conquests to be collected.

Notice that the "card game" didn't make it back in Witcher 2 or 3. That's because someone spoke up about it.

I was fine playing Adam Jensen. His shit wasn't sexualized. He was about the mystery and the mission. Sure, he found something about his girlfriend in the vault, but I could see a woman doing the same thing about an old flame (although, dude, seriously, get over her. . . she's long over you).

Or take the "romance" with Kaiden for the first Mass Effect. That, by far, was one of the worst I've ever seen, heard, or read. You couldn't be polite to him without him slavering all over you like a creepy stalker. Bioware did get better, however.

- - - Updated - - -

don't really have time to go into all of this at the moment, but moria has been around since classic and has had a spot light since cata shes really not all that new.

Shit, my bad. I thought you were talking Overwatch.

[Torto]

But to most gamers, Sarkeesian is irrelevant, while all of the negative reaction to her videos is exactly the sort of nonsense that makes people cringe at being labeled as a gamer, or associating with gaming culture.

And honestly, I'm not sure why people get so passionate about defending scantily clad wank fodder in video games anyway. Doesn't that shit ever get old for you?

I'm not so sure why people get so passionate about defending Renaissance wank fodder art. Ban it all, it's so sexist.

[Self Inflicted Wounds]

How many of you played the "card game" in Witcher 1? You should know what I mean. Yeah. Now pretend you're a woman, and the card game is about men. It feels like shit, doesn't it? I quite literally had to ask my guy friends if dudes in general view women as sexual conquests to be collected.
.

Honestly? I wouldn't care. I'm sure things like that exists. Media/art has plenty of things that objectifies men, and I really don't care about it. I'm not necessarily in favor of that card game either. I don't think women are conquests either.

The issue though, is that its literally censoring things you don't like. I don't like Danielle Steele romance novels. You know, the ones where there is always a Fabio-esque shirtless dude on the cover. Or fifty shades of grey style writing. Or the Twilight Saga. all of those things objectifies men in one way or another. But the thing is, I don't have to consume that material. I'm not blaming you for disliking that content.

People here are afraid that Sarkeesian and her ideas will keep leaking into the industry. This is a woman that has been proven to have not even played most of these games. She is constantly pointed out as wrong. She is literally scamming her followers. She lies, and misrepresents. Its fine to dislike the Witcher card game. But pretending like every game is sexist is just ridiculous.

[Tabrotar]

Go back, re-read what I wrote. I quite literally said nothing of the sort. I mentioned a couple of things: 1) Bioware might be looking to make games friendlier to women, 2) Is there something wrong with making a lead character female? and 3) Can we make male leads more female-friendly?

NOWHERE did I mention that male main characters are bad. Quite literally nowhere. It wasn't even implied.

Hell, I even compared TWO MALE leads in two different games, and cited that they feel quite different, even when considering genre and game mechanics.

Since I'm not clear enough. . . .

The depiction of women in some games alienates women. In some games, women are depicted as objects, things to be abused, or things to be rescued because they are helpless and without agency.

I'm going to leave out the worst abusers.

How many of you played the "card game" in Witcher 1? You should know what I mean. Yeah. Now pretend you're a woman, and the card game is about men. It feels like shit, doesn't it? I quite literally had to ask my guy friends if dudes in general view women as sexual conquests to be collected.

Notice that the "card game" didn't make it back in Witcher 2 or 3. That's because someone spoke up about it.

I was fine playing Adam Jensen. His shit wasn't sexualized. He was about the mystery and the mission. Sure, he found something about his girlfriend in the vault, but I could see a woman doing the same thing about an old flame (although, dude, seriously, get over her. . . she's long over you).

Or take the "romance" with Kaiden for the first Mass Effect. That, by far, was one of the worst I've ever seen, heard, or read. You couldn't be polite to him without him slavering all over you like a creepy stalker. Bioware did get better, however.

- - - Updated - - -



Shit, my bad. I thought you were talking Overwatch.

Sorry then it was not you but anothe rposter.

Regarding the role of woman in games though, what games treat woman as objects without making it obvious that´s all over the top and shoudln´t be taken serious? And where do they have you abuse female PCs? Because i don´t think that´s high on the agenda for a game company if they wanna sell their games.

And Kaidan was the same as Anders and no they don´t get better with him because they forced him as a third (or wa sit second?) gay option om us where nothing EVER showed him be interested in a male Sheppard.

[Ielenia]

And honestly, I'm not sure why people get so passionate about defending scantily clad wank fodder in video games anyway. Doesn't that shit ever get old for you?

It's not about "scantily clad wank fodder in video games". It's about defending the rights games developers have to create a game the way they want it. The attacks are aimed toward scantily clad characters (which I assume you don't care much about), but what if it's something else you don't like seeing attacked?

[Macaquerie]

I'm not so sure why people get so passionate about defending Renaissance wank fodder art. Ban it all, it's so sexist.

Yeah who could possibly tell the difference between that and this:

It's not about "scantily clad wank fodder in video games". It's about defending the rights games developers have to create a game the way they want it. The attacks are aimed toward scantily clad characters (which I assume you don't care much about), but what if it's something else you don't like seeing attacked?

Video games are a commercial product, the developers are already extremely constrained artistically by what the publisher thinks will be trendy and marketable. A lot of what we consider to be common features of games are pushed onto developers because that's what the execs, who usually don't play games themselves, think will sell to horny teenage boys.

And honestly I can't speak for anyone else, but even when I was a teenager, everyone I knew always sort of looked down on the idea of ogling sexy video game characters because we all saw it as the absolute pits of weird loser behavior. Yeah of course we all did it from time to time anyway, but it was a sort of guilty pleasure that people wouldn't really admit to. Nowadays, somehow it has become this rallying cry that has to be defended on the grounds of artistic merit? Color me skeptical.

[tyrlaan]

More like you can't see racism for what it is

Aw, that's so cute, you think you're right. /pats_head

And honestly, I'm not sure why people get so passionate about defending scantily clad wank fodder in video games anyway. Doesn't that shit ever get old for you?

Not to mention, it's not like video game characters are the only thing the world provides to get your rocks off.

I'm not so sure why people get so passionate about defending Renaissance wank fodder art. Ban it all, it's so sexist.

You know there's plenty of room for both in the industry, right? I mean, last I checked we still get both G rated films and porn films for example.

[Moralgy]

It's not about "scantily clad wank fodder in video games". It's about defending the rights games developers have to create a game the way they want it. The attacks are aimed toward scantily clad characters (which I assume you don't care much about), but what if it's something else you don't like seeing attacked?

What I want to know is where was the #gamergate movement and the likes when "SJWs" were attacking Dragonspear for having a trans character. No one seemed to really defend that developers right to add what they wanted, so is this giant movement to defend devs right to make a game the way they want only isolated to boobs?

[Usagi Senshi]

I can't wait to take my wank fodder on my Switch to the bathroom with me and suck up school girls clothes while slamming home some big ones!

[Video Games]

What I want to know is where was the #gamergate movement and the likes when "SJWs" were attacking Dragonspear for having a trans character. No one seemed to really defend that developers right to add what they wanted, so is this giant movement to defend devs right to make a game the way they want only isolated to boobs?

Probably cause gamergate was dead in 2016.

[Heladys]

Yes, you're so right - the complaining about the leader of the free world who's blatantly corrupt, who's most likely going to be imprisoned for several crimes, who is completely destroying our entire democratic process and infrastructure which will take decades to fix is exactly the same comparison to some random youtube doink visiting Bioware. =/

Yeah you're right. Two things cannot possibly be compared at all unless they are exactly the same fucking thing, because humans have never developed any workable means of learning about trends from anything that is in any way different from another fucking thing.

Thank you so very much for enlightening us all with your advanced levels of logic and deep thinking.

[Scrysis]

Sorry then it was not you but anothe rposter.

Regarding the role of woman in games though, what games treat woman as objects without making it obvious that´s all over the top and shoudln´t be taken serious? And where do they have you abuse female PCs? Because i don´t think that´s high on the agenda for a game company if they wanna sell their games.

And Kaidan was the same as Anders and no they don´t get better with him because they forced him as a third (or wa sit second?) gay option om us where nothing EVER showed him be interested in a male Sheppard.

A really quick example because I've been avoiding the worst abusers from reputation. In Dishonored, the violent death of the queen, and the kidnapping of her daughter form the center of the entire plot. You could still keep Corvo as a male player character, and yet make the intimate connections relevant. For example, you could have it be a King, and Corvo actually the secret bastard son of the king (which, thinking about it, might have made for a cooler story), and the kidnapped child could have been Corvo's son or daughter fostered at court. But for whatever reason, in this game, both victims were female, and the perpetrators were male. In fact, most of the people you saw while playing that game, were MALE. The conspiracy guys in the tavern were all men, the people conspiring against the monarchy were all men. It was ALL the men. Hell, even the Outsider was a man, and he could have just as easily been a woman. There was a woman tending the bar, and another watching Emily who later gets overwhelmed by the male conspirators when they kidnap Emily. Both of the inventors were men. I mean, it was an absolute sausage fest in that game. There were no women in positions of authority or power. And no, I'm not talking about supernatural ability. The women were just there to to be rescued, or shuttled around (like a piece of furniture -- like the barmaid or nanny).

Now, contrast that with Dishonored 2, which was much better balanced. You could play as either Emily OR Corvo, and whomever you didn't pick was frozen and served as motivation. The main Antagonist was a super powerful witch, and she had lots of witch cronies. The person running the boat was now a black woman. You still had Sokolov, and the Outsider, and lots of other guys, but now you saw a lot more women in the game. THAT is what we like to see. We don't want all the men to go away. We just want more women to show up. We want women who do things for themselves, not for "love" (ie, hornies for some guy), and women who have some power. The women DO something in the story, and have an important part. It's about agency.

One of my favorite characters has been Kerrigan. She was left on a planet to die by an abusive asshole of a superior who figured he could plug a leak by leaving her. Fortunately, the Zerg wanted her as a minion, and not as a corpse. She came back, built up a power base, became a general villain for a bit, was stripped of her power, had her boyfriend get kidnapped (role reversal! Woo!), got her power back, rescued her boyfriend, and then got her revenge.

They can't normally abuse female PCs much more than male ones because people play games to feel empowered. Do too much abuse, and no one is going to play the game. The gendered abuse comes from the NPCs. There has been one really brilliant exception that I can't really play because I'm a neurotic mess when it comes to QTEs, but Tomb Raider was brilliant from what I did play. Croft was attacked, and in a super unfortunate situation, but managed to drag herself out of it and start kicking ass. But that kind of situation would be amazing for a male character too.

I didn't mean that they improved Kaiden. I meant that they improved the way that they handled future romantic quest lines for female PCs. You couldn't give polite responses without the most outrageous flirting and suggestions from Kaiden. (I just stopped talking to him, and killed him off at Virmire, which is unfortunate because Ashley.) I'm sorry that they wrote Anders that way for male characters. He made for a very sympathetic female romance option.

[Deleted]

'Kay. You might want to elaborate as to exactly how this is related to 'diversity'.



Which apparently has bearing on the movie being less good, something you've still done fuck all to demonstrate.

For example: The whole sequence where they went down to the planet to find a hacker was obviously put in the movie only so that the token black guy and token asian had something to do in the movie. A sequence which is pretty much everyone agree is the weakest part of the movie.

I could write an essay on the whole Rey being a Mary Sue thing but it's been done to death. You know because WAMAN are stong!

Now i've demonstrated it as per your request though i realize that nothing short of a confession from Rian johnssson or the queen b*tch herself would satisfy you so it's just wasted time on my part.