Donald Trump Congratulates Vladmir Putin, Enemy of America

[CostinR]

The ridiculous idea that Trump should not congratulate Putin on the basis of America's geopolitical conflict with Russia should be flat out ignored. Having Trump and Putin despise each other on a personal level is incredibly stupid and foolish because it can do a lot of damage that should not occur. Take for instance how bad things got between Russia and America in large part because Putin and Obama despised each other and how much that alone neutered America on a foreign policy level.

That's basically what it boils down to. Trump can be testy with Putin and refuse to acknowledge his obvious victory, or he can congratulate him and get down to the things that really matter. It's also why Obama congratulated Putin in 2012: He had bigger fish to fry....then Obama blew it all up when he called out Putin in days before the takeover of Crimea to "not dare".

Well Putin dared, and he dared because he felt humiliated personally by Obama going in front of all those cameras and saying that. At the time, based on Kremlin sources, Putin's advisers were locked in a fierce argument over whether or not to take over Crimea. Obama's words were the deciding factor in Putin doing it and by taking over Crimea the United States and NATO were made to look like pathetic children. The same happened with Russia's Syria intervention AND years before that when Bush scolded Russia before Russia smashed Georgia's military.

So if there's a lesson here: If you want to not look like a fool against Vladimir Putin play nice. One might argue America has the power to take on Russia and it certainly has, but it is severely limited because Europe is not willing to go far enough. ( and Europe sure as hell does not give a single shit to take on Russia over America's 2016 election interference ).

So playing nice while fighting Russia in different ways: Like helping improve governments in Eastern Europe, pushing for far more European defense spending, is a lot more effective.

Of course congratulating Putin as Trump, Juncker, Macron and Merkel did does legitimize his victory. Which only really matters for him on a domestic level. So what of it? Putin enjoys an approval rating of over or close to 80% depending on the polls you look at ( Gallup had him at 79% in 2017 ). So trying to call into the question the legitimacy of Putin's victory when he is that popular...is a fool's effort. It was like that in 2012 when the West tried and it's even more so now.

The fact is that people like Navalny are NOT popular in Russia, and it's not like Navalny is some moderate sensible fellow with his own political views. John McCain says it's an insult to all Russians to congratulate Putin because they didn't have the chance to vote: Oh they did have the chance to vote, they have for years now and have consistently chosen Putin. Of course Putin has done all he can to control the media and craft an excellent narrative for himself, but he would never have gotten so far if he had some genuine oposition: Instead you get clowns like Kasparov, Navalny...or worse the communists.

I don't know where this myth exists but here's a reality check: Russians, and many Eastern Europeans in general, are xenophobic, nationalistic, selfish assholes. They do NOT have the same views on democracy, tolerance, rule of law ( hah what a joke, most people around these parts indulge in the corruption game ) or respect for capable institutions. People like McCain need to stop drinking the Kool Aid in believing otherwise.

The west better grasp a message that Theresa May passed along to the GOP last year: The days of America and Britain remaking the world in our own image are over. Accept Eastern Europe for what it is and the fact Putin and those like minded will control Russia for many years to come.

[Deleted]

Donald Trump is doing to Russia what ever entity does to its overlord. Russia is America's master; they are outplaying America in every single way possible, and shattering their national interests in every corner of the world. There is nothing America can do now that won't be hindered or greatly diminished in effect by Russia.

You will never, ever again be confident in your political process. Russia will corrupt you from within in greater ways than you can imagine. Meanwhile, you cannot do anything to them internally because they are far more protected by their political system which doesn't enable all sorts of traitors to gain access to power. Your propaganda is useless. Your spies are useless. Your threats are useless.

Trump is only the first chapter of a long, long book in which America is Russia's little puppet. Get used to it.

@Skroe

Russian economy is declining, its demographic future is bleak. Contrast that with American economic powerhouse and all those incoming Latin immigrants which will bolster American demography. America will remain a global power but Russia will decline. Indeed, I believe that around 2040 Russia may face some serious troubles from rising China.

[Deleted]

Donald Trump, so-called President of the United States (a position until recently that was regarded as leader of the free world) has called to Congratulate the Russian Dictator, War Criminal Vladmir Putin on his election victory, a victory in a profoundly rigged election that saw Putin opponents jailed, killed and intimidated.





I could make a kinda-sorta joke about how important that it is that employees keep up a good relationship with their boss (except it's not really a joke). But overally, it's just absolutely monstrous of our illegitimate President to

(1) Congratulate a dictator on his victory in a rigged Presidential election

(2) Congratulate said dictator when he did so after his country has been staging attacks against the US and the West over the past few years including:


-The 2016 Presidential Election cyberattack / information warfare campaign and attempts to subvert our democracy.

-Russian cyberattacks on the US power grid that just earned it sanctions

-The attempted military assault on US Troops in Syria by a Kremlin-backed Private Military Contractor, an assault that ended with 200-300 dead Russian contractors.

-Within the last month, the Chemical Weapon Terrorist attack in the United Kingdom that put 20+ people at risk and was the first chemical weapons use in Europe since World War II.

-Within the last month, as part of his re-election campaign, unveils new nuclear weapons specifically to attack America




Donald J. Trump, President of the United States... the seat of Washington, Jefferson, Madison, Lincoln, Teddy Roosevelt, FDR, Truman, Eisenhower, Kennedy, Johnson and Reagan... congratulates this man, whose country attacked ours and continues to do so.

Trump, being an utter buffoon who has absolutely no idea how to amass and wield power, is too stupid to understand that little trollish episodes like this (and let's be clear, that's exactly what this petty man is doing - trolling his domestic political opponents), only serves to undermine his already questionable authority.


Vladmir Putin, a man who laments the fall of the Soviet Union, self defines himself as an enemy of America, and unlike many who describe themselves as such, has acted upon that impulse to systematically attack us. And Donald J Trump wants improved relations with this man.

Exactly how many attacks does the United States have to endure before the President of the United States, Donald J. Trump, stops being an ongoing national security incident and acts to actually defend America?

Not enough hyperbole n lies. 4/10 for the effort.

[Deleted]

@CostinR

Russia has a very problematic demography, just like the other European countries. Contrast that with the fact that it is geographically close to some countries that were empires in the past and seek to regain their power once more. China, Iran, Turkey. That is going to be a big problem for Russia in future, especially if their demography remains in the state it is now. Also, Poland is heavily supported by USA-UK as their stronghold against both Russia and Germany.

[Deleted]

Absolutely! Even if protocol calls for congratulations, surely the Secretary of State can...

Oh, wait.

Even without a Secretary of State, I'm sure the White House Communications Director can...

Oh, wait.

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The ridiculous idea that Trump should not congratulate Putin on the basis of America's geopolitical conflict with Russia should be flat out ignored.

Putin is a dictator who organized a sham election where no real opposition was allowed, with widespread ballot stuffing and other forms of corruption at polling stations. This goes way beyond the current political conflict between the US and Russia.

I hope the MMO Champion ignore list doesn't have a limit. I'm done with propaganda bots.

[Shalcker]

Putin is a dictator who organized a sham election where no real opposition was allowed, with widespread ballot stuffing and other forms of corruption at polling stations. This goes way beyond the current political conflict between the US and Russia.

All those real flaws and corruption do not actually change reality of him being supported by population (and hence being legitimate) until better alternative is available.

[CostinR]

@CostinR

Russia has a very problematic demography, just like the other European countries. Contrast that with the fact that it is geographically close to some countries that were empires in the past and seek to regain their power once more. China, Iran, Turkey. That is going to be a big problem for Russia in future, especially if their demography remains in the state it is now. Also, Poland is heavily supported by USA-UK as their stronghold against both Russia and Germany.

Indeed. I am not one to deny Russia's numerous issues, including the fact that when Putin does go there's no real successor.

I am one to deny the nonsensical stance against Russia.

[Deleted]

All those real flaws and corruption do not actually change reality of him being supported by population (and hence being legitimate) until better alternative is available.

You know, it is fairly sad that in a country as big as Russia there are no other reasonable alternatives. Hell, even here in Croatia there are 3-4 parties which each try to offer legitimate program. For a country with 144+ million people to be no other alternatives then V. Putin is fairly sad.

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Indeed. I am not one to deny Russia's numerous issues, including the fact that when Putin does go there's no real successor.

I am one to deny the nonsensical stance against Russia.

Nonsensical stance belongs to hysterical people with no grasp of geopolitics and realpolitik. I love Russian literature and art but I do not believe that V. Putin leadership is good for long term stability and prosperity of the Russian people.

[NED funded]

Or they just leave us out deals like Paris accord and continuing progressing without us.

The Paris Accord is literally virtue signaling. Not only is it non-binding, but countries set goals that they could achieve without putting any effort of their own. It's a joke of an agreement. Again, you are projecting your values unto the CPC, they are not interested in any of the western values preferring to create their version of things such as the world bank or the IMF than to lead them as it would require them to open up and loosen their grip on the country. I

[CostinR]

Nonsensical stance belongs to hysterical people with no grasp of geopolitics and realpolitik. I love Russian literature and art but I do not believe that V. Putin leadership is good for long term stability and prosperity of the Russian people.

Russia's problem is that although Putin was able to significantly stabilize the country from both an economic and political level and make it far more influential then it had been before under Yelstin he did so at the cost of not reforming it as it should been.

The lack of reform is leading to stagnation and that stagnation, which the USSR experienced under Brezhnev is what is ultimately going to hurt the country after Putin is gone.

For now Russia remains a significant political player with a stable economy, stable political leadership and the second most powerful military on the planet. This will change in about a decade, or will start changing, but this is the current situation.

Regarding the Russian people and their welfare: If they weren't significantly better off then before then they would not support Putin. Consider that the worst that happened for them after the Crimea episode wasn't that the west imposed sanctions: Those hardly had an impact.

What really mattered is that Russia banned food imports from across the west. That has led to a significant increase in food prices...and yet you don't hear much complaining.

[Shalcker]

You know, it is fairly sad that in a country as big as Russia there are no other reasonable alternatives.

Public discourse isn't there to support actual plurality of opinions (and then acting on it). Even in opposition many people are "Our way or highway!"; they are just on the losing side now, but if they would win they would be indistinguishable from current "winners".

Hell, even here in Croatia there are 3-4 parties which each try to offer legitimate program. For a country with 144+ million people to be no other alternatives then V. Putin is fairly sad.

We do have 3-4 parties "trying to offer legitimate programs" and one "Let's suck up to ones currently in power! Everyone invited!"

And plenty of people are okay with the latter as long as it pays them salaries and pensions.

Nonsensical stance belongs to hysterical people with no grasp of geopolitics and realpolitik. I love Russian literature and art but I do not believe that V. Putin leadership is good for long term stability and prosperity of the Russian people.

That shouldn't necessarily stop congratulating him on electoral victory, however.

If you care for Russians you got to care about whom they support, and that would be Putin.

[Arunu]

All those real flaws and corruption do not actually change reality of him being supported by population (and hence being legitimate) until better alternative is available.

indeed, and since we all know anyone brave enough to consider running against him gets into a miraculous accident, is shot by completely random thugs or barred from running it will take a while before that happens

[Deleted]

Russia's problem is that although Putin was able to significantly stabilize the country from both an economic and political level and make it far more influential then it had been before under Yelstin he did so at the cost of not reforming it as it should been.

The lack of reform is leading to stagnation and that stagnation, which the USSR experienced under Brezhnev is what is ultimately going to hurt the country after Putin is gone.

For now Russia remains a significant political player with a stable economy, stable political leadership and the second most powerful military on the planet. This will change in about a decade, or will start changing, but this is the current situation.

Regarding the Russian people and their welfare: If they weren't significantly better off then before then they would not support Putin. Consider that the worst that happened for them after the Crimea episode wasn't that the west imposed sanctions: Those hardly had an impact.

What really mattered is that Russia banned food imports from across the west. That has led to a significant increase in food prices...and yet you don't hear much complaining.

Yeah, Vladimir Putin did bring order to chaos that erupted with the collapse of USSR. He did a very good job in my humble opinion.

However, Russia today is in dire need of reforms, and the longer those reforms keep getting postponed, the worse overall situation will be. Thus far, I see little political will from Putin to actually start implementing reforms. Remember the ambitious plan for complete Russian navy restoration? Nothing. The Russian army also planned to acquire 2,300 T-14s Armata tanks in the period 2015–2020, nothing thus far. Military can not be powerful and evolve without strong economic base to support it, and in Russian case, that economic base does not have bright future. Russian economy is greatly dependent on oil prices, which is a very complicated situation to be in. USSR fell because of low oil prices, among other problems that plagued the USSR.

Demography itself is the fundamental key to future of any nation, and the Russians are not breeding enough, although that problem is rampant in the rest of Europe as well.


@Shalcker
I am deeply fond of Russian art, however in realm of realpolitik, my country Croatia has more or less the same attitude Poland has towards Russia. You are Orthodox Slavs who support Serbia, our geopolitical enemy.

[Vargur]

https://edition.cnn.com/2018/03/21/p...ons/index.html

I guess he gives zero fucks on national security.

[Ermelloth]

I think that many people in the West don't even realize, how big a threat for everyone Putinist Russia has become.

I happen to speak Russian; it's my mother tongue, because I was born in USSR. So, I've been visiting various Russian forums for a long time; and I can tell you the following: the level of HATRED a common Russian feels for the West (particularly USA) is scary. I often encounter posts about "how great it would be to blow up Washington", for example, and I'm not exaggerating! Here is, for example, a quite popular picture among so-called Putinist "ura-patriots":

https://imgur.com/a/PxmDy

"Stalin Strait"

You can see Stalin pointing on a strait between Canada and Mexico, asking one of famous Russian physicist if this is what he had in mind (implying the usage of atomic weapons to create the strait, thus utterly destroying USA's soil).

Another problem is that nearly entire bottom of Russian society strongly supports Putinizm. And this "bottom" makes around... 80% of Russia's total population. The groups which Putin's regime is supported by are:

*most of pensioners, who hate West for "ruining USSR" and who hardly survive in adverse economic conditions;
*brainwashed youth;
*all kind of neo-nazists and right wingers (who massively volunteer to fight vs. Ukrainian forces in latest Ukrainian conflict);
*masses of common workers, farmers, drunkards - in general, nearly all people with low income. They are being told that the main cause of their poverty, especially in 90s, are US / EU, Jews, Israel (as absurd as it may sound, but all Russian low commoners are sworn antisemites, they learn hate for Jews with their mothers' milk), also domestic liberals, etc.

Progressive, well-educated, liberal people make only about 10-15% of Russia's population, which is a minority. All others either support Putin or communists, which is even worse.


Now, the last big problem. Putin tied himself up with Iran, Assad and other asshole rejimes, directly hostile towards West. Which is bad, very bad.

SO... Russia as it is now cannot be allowed to gain more political weight. It is a sleeping bomb, which can explode and bury everything West cares for.

[Shalcker]

indeed, and since we all know anyone brave enough to consider running against him gets into a miraculous accident, is shot by completely random thugs or barred from running it will take a while before that happens

That literally never happened with anyone who was "brave enough to consider running against him" though.

[zenkai]

It's funny how fast things can change in a few years, when Mitt Romney called Russia are number one enemy, Democrats laughed at him. Now Democrats are calling Russia our enemy and Trump is congratulating them.

http://www.politifact.com/truth-o-me...ur-no-1-enemy/

[Felya]

It's funny how fast things can change in a few years, when Mitt Romney called Russia are number one enemy, Democrats laughed at him. Now Democrats are calling Russia our enemy and Trump is congratulating them.

http://www.politifact.com/truth-o-me...ur-no-1-enemy/

I wonder what happened......

[Arunu]

That literally never happened with anyone who was "brave enough to consider running against him" though.

yeah ok, sure, some of them were "just critics" of him. also Nemstov ? ring a bell ?

or maybe :

1. Gloesjkov
2. berezovski
3. Estemirova
4. Markelov
5. Litvinenko
6. Politkovskaja
7. Navanly

All open critics who ended up magically dead or were barred from competing in Navanly's case.
really creates a healthy environment for being in opposition or being allowed to voice your critique

[Acidbaron]

It's funny how fast things can change in a few years, when Mitt Romney called Russia are number one enemy, Democrats laughed at him. Now Democrats are calling Russia our enemy and Trump is congratulating them.

http://www.politifact.com/truth-o-me...ur-no-1-enemy/

Your inability to put things into context is fairly impressive. You would have been correct if you recently suffered brain damage and lost the few recent years and events that transpired between the west and the kremlin. If you however do not, i suggest refreshing your memory and using more diverse sources of information, not that anyone really believes your independent shtick, anyway



As for on topic, still unsure if there's a ill will on Trumps part or merely the lack of intelligence, one we would see in a spoiled toddler that when told to do something merely does the opposite completely unaware of any consequence.

The message now send by the american administration to the west is that they are an administration that is not their ally and has not their best interest at hand, however with the trade war the americans will badly lose on a global scale, this is hardly a surprise.

Funny how republicans like zenkai would have shouted for murder if anyone would even suggest to work with a former KGB henchmen in the past.

Infracted