Master Looter

[Deleted]

because getting the same damn item for 5 straight ids is shit? or no drops in a 11boss raid?

[Accendor]

Maybe just take off trade restrictions in guild runs.

See, that is the main problem here:
ML gets removed because very competitive guilds that compete for world firsts are investing a lot of time to funnel loot to specific characters.
If you remove trade restriction in guild runs, this behavior will not change. And if it does not change, then there is no reason to remove ML in the first place.

[Chemii]

Blizzard are making guilds a completely social feature within the next few years lets be honest. It's unfortunate but the benefit to being in a guild is practically zero, it's a chat window and with the new group chat feature you won't even need one eventually.

A sad part of reality but wow is to become a pick up and play dungeon runner with minor RPG elements.

Personal loot makes most sense when you look at it from that perspective, even if I disagree with the direction personally.

Also the clown OP asking for bans to split runners needs a wake up call.

[kamuimac]

The only problem I see with this change is that some guilds will try to tell people to trade their items to other raiders which will probably create drama. It doesn't really affect me, as I mostly pug HC nowadays, but I hope they address that.

only thing this will cause will be disabling of trading any loot

[Accendor]

the problem is 99% who mindlessly copy 1% playing model for any aspects of game

But this does not exist. Do not get me wrong, I am well aware that there is a tiny minority of mythic guilds who is NOT competing for world firsts and is still doing split runs, but compared to the people who are NOT doing it and who are using ML perfectly fine, they are negligible.

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You can trade personal loot though, only the bonus rolls are what you can't trade. While there are players who are too short sighted to see that their 2% gain won't help them progress as much as the other players 5% gain, I would say most raiders at the cutting edge do realize that if they get the BiS for another player, they should trade it to them.

But they can not trade it most of the time, that is the problem.
Titanforging is here to stay according to Blizzard (does not matter if you like it or not) and as soon as an item is just 1 item level higher than your highest item you can not trade it.
So it does not matter if you want to trade away your loot because it is a way bigger upgrade for someone else and giving it away is fine for you, because you simply can not do it.

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so then obvious solution is removal of loot trading

wouldnt surpise me if they blocked it completly with release of BfA and reveling of their cross realm connections tool

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They can try, but it would be the end of organized raiding. I am not saying this is not what they intend to do, perhaps they are, but many people will stop playing the game if organized raiding dies.
Again, not saying that this would be a bad thing for Blizzard, but it is a risk that they would take and I am not sure why they would take this risk if they already have a successful business model.

[kamuimac]

It is very disheartening to see so many people on this forum, clearly not having any clue on what they are advocating for and treating Master Looting as if it touched them in forbidden places...

Personal loot is not an answer... Not to split raiding, not to ninja looting in guilds, not to guild progression... And not for personal benefit in the expense of others.

Just leave the Loot system the way it is...

maybe it did

maybe try to put yourself in their shoes and people who have been scammed from obtaining loot and thats why they keep away from guilds and prefer pugging which is much worse experience overall

maybe those claims as well as blizzard actions are fully justified if nowadays even world 5000 guild are going "loot council " modes to scam people from loot they deserve

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They can try, but it would be the end of organized raiding. I am not saying this is not what they intend to do, perhaps they are, but many people will stop playing the game if organized raiding dies.
Again, not saying that this would be a bad thing for Blizzard, but it is a risk that they would take and I am not sure why they would take this risk if they already have a successful business model.

organized raiding is already dead - people dont make or join guilds for normal/hc - look at your trade spam - only guilds looking for people are mythic guilds.

anything below happens in pugs

with heavy push for cross realm community tool maybe this is exackly blizzard intention to stop associate raid teams with guilds.

[Eazy]

The only problem I see with this change is that some guilds will try to tell people to trade their items to other raiders which will probably create drama. It doesn't really affect me, as I mostly pug HC nowadays, but I hope they address that.

No one is forcing them being in that guild.
If someone doesn't know the loot rules before the runs then it's his/her own problem.
If we are talking a situation where some imba BIS item drop and then guilds are saying that he/she should give it to their most skilled player, then it's other situation. But as I said - no one is forcing them to be in that guild. They can keep the item and leave the guild if they want to avoid dramas.

[agittunc]

This is hilariously fucking pathetic and desperate. Hardlines that he's open to opinions, but in the same bitchy, whiny post he tells anyone that disagrees with him to fuck off, L2P, and all sorts of other toxic bullshit.

How about you shove your hypocritical bullshit copy/pasta post from other toxic threads up your ass before you shove you opinion down other people's throats.

desperate? how am i desperate excactly? if anyone is its you. and copy paste what i wrote and take things out of context is indeed pathetic.

you are a hypocrite and better yet i aint even gonna respond to your hypocritical ass anymore.

[kamuimac]

Spoken like a true grey-ranked toxic player.

thats me the lfr scum you couldnt be more correct and yet there is soo much more of me-alike in game then you alike

[Accendor]

Multiplayer game means tradable loot? lol

Do you raid because you enjoy playing with friends or just to share loot?

That is the wrong approach for many people. Most people start raiding with a group of strangers that become friends over time. Why are they becoming friends? Because of social interaction. Removing ML and the possibility to trade takes away another part of this social interaction thus making it less likely to make the transition from "Stranger that I play an online game with" to "Friend who I enjoy playing with".

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maybe it did

maybe try to put yourself in their shoes and people who have been scammed from obtaining loot and thats why they keep away from guilds and prefer pugging which is much worse experience overall

maybe those claims as well as blizzard actions are fully justified if nowadays even world 5000 guild are going "loot council " modes to scam people from loot they deserve

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organized raiding is already dead - people dont make or join guilds for normal/hc - look at your trade spam - only guilds looking for people are mythic guilds.

anything below happens in pugs

with heavy push for cross realm community tool maybe this is exackly blizzard intention to stop associate raid teams with guilds.

As long as there are guilds that do mythic organize raiding is not dead, but I agree with your general point that normal and HC content should not be puggable. But this is not the point of this thread.

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So many trinkets will go to waste unless they lift the stupid ilvl Req.
Whats bis for one spec is complete dogshit for another spec/class.

Again, if they lift the ilvl requirement there would be no difference to the current system.

[Akka]

I'm not a "high end player", but I hate personal loot because its very concept flies in the face of a social game. It's also too meta and just feels completely artificial. Blizzard wants to make everything "personal loot" (in the neverending devolution into a single player game), while it's actually the one loot method I would remove from the game.

[Deleted]

The problem with personal loot is that you can end up with 0 items at the end of the raid.

I participate in hc alt runs in my guild and a few times we used the same tool as they use for their progress team, RCLootCouncil addon. I got like 3-4 useful items at the end and I could feel accomplishment, and that my time worth it.

With personal loot, I am stressed all the time, because it's pure RNG, you can literally get 0 loot by your own, and also because I know that most of alts are undergeared, even by just 5 ilvl-s and they won't be able to trade items, despite they won't use them.

This slows down progression which is just more money for Blizz, because returning players will be subbed for longer than before.

[Verdugo]

thats me the lfr scum you couldnt be more correct and yet there is soo much more of me-alike in game then you alike

Thats fine, you are just proof that Blizzard isnt doing it to remove toxicity from the game.

[Feuerbart]

maybe it did

maybe try to put yourself in their shoes and people who have been scammed from obtaining loot and thats why they keep away from guilds and prefer pugging which is much worse experience overall

maybe those claims as well as blizzard actions are fully justified if nowadays even world 5000 guild are going "loot council " modes to scam people from loot they deserve

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organized raiding is already dead - people dont make or join guilds for normal/hc - look at your trade spam - only guilds looking for people are mythic guilds.

anything below happens in pugs

with heavy push for cross realm community tool maybe this is exackly blizzard intention to stop associate raid teams with guilds.

Just maybe don´t raid with idiots? If the loot system used by a guild is not "fair" then don´t raid with them. YOUR CHOICE. You don´t change something for 100% of the people because some are bad apples. Not when it´s not life threatening anyway.

If YOU don´t like the loot system in a guild YOU can do something about that. But you don´t need to force your vision onto every other guild out there.
Loot council (if done right and not corrupt) is the best loot system when your raid goal is progress. That can not be refuted by any argument.
A corrupt loot council is the worst system as well.

But you can ML with a point based system as well where you adhere to your lootpriorities. This may be totally fair in the base sense if the rules are fair to begin with.
Maybe you get 100 points for every raid evening. Whoever helped the raid the most by being there has the most points. Totally fair in this ruleset. When you want to factor in other facets you can award points for special things or award negative points for special things like beeing late to the raid.
Whatever you do that can be fair given a specific ruleset. You need ML to use such a system.

As has men mentioned by many people PL gives you zero point 5 percent control over who gets what. And if you remove the trade restrictions you have ML by work around. You get a rulesset of trade all loot to your loot boss and it will be distributed by your given ruleset (facilitating split run funneling).
So free trading will not come.

Giving the right loot to the right players is one of the key points to raid progress.
With great power comes great responsibility. As stated above there is the chance of abuse. But YOU are in control over anyone abusing your loot chances in this game.

Or said with another saying. Abuse me once your fault. Abuse me twice my fault.

[HumbleDuck]

Wow, you are showing a tremendous amount of ignorance here.

[HuxNeva]

forced PL in premade (guild) groups is just stupid, for example, a cloth item drops for a priest that is bis for a warlock, guess what, he cant trade it to the warlock because it is higher ilvl but has worse stats, so yea, thats a wasted loot drop, if that same item dropped in ML, the raid leader/loot council can just give it to the warlock(s) and everything is fine

It's a bit arbitrary as they can offset the less optimal distribution with an increased loot chance.

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As long as there are guilds that do mythic organize raiding is not dead, but I agree with your general point that normal and HC content should not be puggable.

As it is a progression game of course all raids become puggable, and later even soloable. Question is, when does this take place? Anthorus HC curve being successfully pugged week 1, that shouldn't happen though.

[Fitsu]

I'm personally in the ML area. In a proper guild being able to give out loot to the people who will gain the most from it/deserve it the most just makes sense. Personal loot will either cause drama because people will be told to trade the item they got, or go to a person who will benefit less from it, doesn't turn up to many raids or simply isn't the ideal class to be getting geared up for the next few encounters I.E. My guild was decking the warlocks/SP as we neared council fights. It is currently the most used form of looting in top guilds from my understanding.

But my bias aside my real quarrel with it is... It's an option, removing it is simply removing an option that some people clearly want. Why? Your not forced to use ML, you can use personal if you want to... So people who want personal don't gain anything from the removal of ML, this is removing something without adding anything and to me that's just a loss for people that want it and a gain for nobody?

[darkwarrior42]

If they intend to remove ML, they should remove the trading requirement for it to not be an upgrade. But if they do that, split runs will continue to be a thing, we'll just see groups doing 20 druid clears, 20 pally clears, etc.

Yes, but that would be acknowledging that people being able to choose who gets gear benefits more than just guilds that do split runs.

If they want to keep making this like Diablo 3, an RNG loot fest where other players are little more than tools to help you get said loot, they can't allow that sort of interpersonal connection. (I have a friend that keeps trying to convince me to come back for BfA, and every time I come to this site I find another development that makes me glad I left...)

[klaps_05]

Master loot means you can have a structured approach to optimizing your progress raid setup not just in the beginning but as you go through the raid. Even if PL is forced, you still have to run the clears on 5+ chars and then just play whatever got luckiest.

System vs luck is not even an argument, I doubt they remove it in the end.

[Whitepaw]

I think this is a bizarre discussion.

We’re discussing hardcore raiders here - and some from these Mythic guilds complaining about the convenience of distributing loot going away.

At the same time, it’s a basic fact that gaining loot has become so much more easy in WoW than it was previously. Gearing is now INSANELY fast. What Blizzard is doing is basically dialing the system back just a little bit - what some in the community is seeing leads to “Sky is falling”-statements! Allow me to remind all of you about the Legendary system we have in Legion, which gives a lot of RNG and where the most important items can NOT be traded to others. Yeah, WoW survived that as well.

We will never have - and should never want - a loot system without any randomness. It would kill the game. It will still be possible to trade some items in the raid. The convenience taken from us will have so little actual consequence for raid progress as to be almost immeasurable. I mean, we’re talking uptimised raid groups, where a trinket going to one char instead of another will lead to a theoretical loss of a few hundred dps - maybe even less. And that’s if specs remain unchanged.