Why does no one talk about Anduin? Anyone here care about Anduin's character arc?

[Sorrior]

Made it to page 7 before having to say this

Blizz does NOT do nuance. They try but their idea of nuance is about as straightforward as an axe in a skull.

They also don't know how to do non gary/mary stus.

See

Thrall aka "green jesus"

Rhonin(who they killed off when severing ties with knaack..still miss his stuff even if poorly written was fun)

Varian once he came back

Malfurion until his current return was oretty much a gary stu(now like 3/4 of non human/orc/undead he is sidelined)

Blizz forgets alot and even had to write chronicles to keep shit straight while retconning like mad.

They are good at making gary and mary stus and epic/dumb worlds(i term it a bon bon movie when a movie or show because of how feel good/power trippy it is)

As for the horde? They are written pretty black these days

Sooo i say just take it as is enjoy the ride and see what happens. Anduins just green jesus 2.0.

[Arrashi]

Compared to Sylvanas, who dies! *5 minutes later* Thank valkyre im fine now, but whew i better farm some more of them.

You mean sylvanas who actually went on her way to obtain this power, and has this power clearly exaplained, detailed, fall into setting and have clear limitations ?

Unlike anduin who...erm...rolled 20 on endurance and luck roll ? And garrosh and 100 orcs present had momentary lapse of judgement and not a single of of them decided it would be wise to check if he is really dead ? And neither of them tried to take trophy ?

[Pawstruck]

My goodness you people are boring. How many times can you repeat "IF NO HAVE FLAWS, NO GOOD CHARACTER!" It's like none of you have ever read a good story in your lives. Features don't need to be flaws to be artistic. You're the boring ones.

This is especially true since, in the real modern world, pure virtue is unbelievably rare.

[Arrashi]

My goodness you people are boring. How many times can you repeat "IF NO HAVE FLAWS, NO GOOD CHARACTER!" It's like none of you have ever read a good story in your lives. Features don't need to be flaws to be artistic. You're the boring ones.

This is especially true since, in the real modern world, pure virtue is unbelievably rare.

And you know why its rare ? Because it doesn't fucking exist. And by making character like that you make impossible to ever relate to them. Unless you have power fantasy or actaully view/wish to view yourself as flawless.

[Sorrior]

It is hard for people who have only a very little bit of experience in the fantasy genre (read: basically these forums) to understand but, magic -- as it exists in Azeroth -- is not some magic win button. It takes time, not unlike DnD magic, to prepare. The Gameplay forces much more relaxed requirements on these abilities. It would be best to think of things like mage portals and hearthstones as being week-long preps rather than every 10 minutes because you cant be bothered to teleport a magic flying animal out of thin are to your location so that you can fly half a mile.

Hearthstones cpuld also be seen as just premade magical items given to adventurers who prove themselves. Making them relatively rare and valuable

While portal magic of any significance even in game can take 2-5 people to use. We just make temporary/small use ones as compared to military gradd ones.

Though i am also convinced at this point our player characters are imbued with azeroths power in some way making us some kinda titan/x race hybrid

[chiddie]

Does anyone care about Anduin?

No.

TLDR: no.

[Aucald]

And did him being out of commision affected anything in any way, shape or form ? Oh wait, it didn't. He sat with his mandatory "im hurt" bandage and the second story needed him on his feet - bam, good as new. So he did got away without any consequence.

You have an odd definition of "consequence," then. Being lamed for the majority of two content patches (as he doesn't reappear in the story until "War Crimes," after the events of SoO) and still bearing the wounds of the encounter is a far cry from "good as new" or getting away without any consequence. Not to mention that his role in "War Crimes" contained basically zero action on his part, just conversations with Garrosh and Wrathion for the most part.

[Sorrior]

That or we are just in our early/mid 30's.

I dunno i assume our characters on average start at 18-25 pretty sure wows been over 15 years timespan wise sooo maybe mid 30s to early 40s.

But if we keep this going till old man anduin without a wow 2/next generation kinda thing will we be 100+ year old vets?

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New debuff: Act Your Age

Then again, Faujah Singh completed the London Marathon at 101 years old.

I actually would find this hilarious..blizz sjould do this some april fools

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Time-wise, Vanilla is only roughly 8 years ago by the time BfA starts. That surely doesn't make us seem too old. Assuming we started our adventuring life at the same age as average protagonists in fantasy fiction, we'd have been ~12-17 by then, and 20-25 now (I'm using Human standard, if your character is of another race, scale that age according to their lifespan). Please don't call that old, because I'm a few years older than that irl, and I'm not old


Well, your opinion about her aside, she was only able to drown Ogrimmar thanks to the Focusing Iris. She isn't going to drown any Ogrimmar without it anytime soon, nor is she going to be able to do anything of that scale.

Wasn't anduin like 6 or younger in vanilla? Means at minimum 12 years

Annd given the tendency to apply real world logic(amd our character models) i would say we start between 18-40 something depending(see some human faces and hairstyles)

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They never addressed it, so we can't know. Maybe she was unconscious on the ship by then (it was getting bounced around); maybe Gul'dan had a block up that prevented her. All we know is that we don't know.

EDIT: "only be at Khadgar's level"? What sort of limitation is that?

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Saying Jaina is popular is like saying Sylvanas is popular. She is with some I guess. I think a better way to describe her is "polarizing".

As for making her powerful, writers do stuff like that when they have a story to tell. Apparently they have an arc in mind for her. Given her rich history in the game, it will be interesting to see where they take her.

I still remember the ICC dungeons where Jaina guided Alliance heroes while Sylvanas guided Horde. I wonder if they are being poised to face off again?

Honestly i miss old jaina..amd kinda hate how much wow lore is being moved from tbe game to books with no real way to know

[ls-]

I dunno i assume our characters on average start at 18-25 pretty sure wows been over 15 years timespan wise sooo maybe mid 30s to early 40s.

But if we keep this going till old man anduin without a wow 2/next generation kinda thing will we be 100+ year old vets?

8 years. It's been 8 years since Vanilla. It's confirmed by Afrasiabi that we're going into year 33 now, events of Vanilla occurred during year 25.

Wasn't anduin like 6 or younger in vanilla? Means at minimum 12 years

He's 10 in Vanilla.

[Sorrior]

8 years. It's been 8 years since Vanilla. It's confirmed by Afrasiabi that we're going into year 33 now, events of Vanilla occurred during year 25.



He's 10 in Vanilla.

Ahh ny bad then..point still stabds bar reset pre 50 anduin

[Mehrunes]

I do not agree there is no nuance. He has a developed personality, and a long history of in-game interactions. What I've seen in this thread is objection to his lack of character flaws.

Honestly though, don't you think this is a new discussion, and one that's maybe overblown since it's mostly in response to how he came off in cinematic? I mean, NO ONE was complaining that Anduin did not have weaknesses before that cinematic. He was probably seen as weakest of the faction leaders, and forum comments were more likely to be joking about how weak he was. Then the cinematic comes out, the Manduin memes start, and now he is OP and flawless.

It's almost as if multiple people expressed the opinion that Anduin of previous expansions was better than what he is now. Precisely because Blizzard just brushed his weaknesses under the carpet.

He is still pretty weak as a fighter, unproven in combat, and got knocked on his butt the one time he's faced another faction leader 1-1.

He one shot a Dreadlord and pummeled a Troll into the ground.

He is still living in his father's shadow. He tries to put on brave front in public, but has admitted to player characters that he has grave doubts about living up to kingly expectations. Isn't that enough for now?

None of these doubts seem to affect him and he does great despite them.

lol....these opinions.


"He isn't enough of a douchebag for me to find him interesting."

You did a terrible job at reading those opinions because this straw-man has already been addressed earlier in the thread.

[*]The factions have united before with a nominal leader; that doesn't mean they would give up autonomy or have no input on decisions.

They have never united, only cooperated.

They rallied behind an Orc back in Silithus; why can both factions rally behind an Orc but not a Human?

That was a singular joint operation.

You don't even know what Anduin will be like at 50yo. Even Blizz doesn't know yet, and the writers on staff now probably won't be on staff then.

Given how he's being orbitted by Velen then just as he is now, he probably doesn't change much.

And yet heroes rise and fall within one great adventure. And for the record, Vol'jin had a human friend.

So did Sylvanas. And Vol'jin loved the Alliance so much he wanted Garrosh to have the Divine Bell if the alternative was Alliance getting it. After Garrosh tried to have him killed.

Can you name a single incident in the game where a problem was resolved by Anduin's mere presence?

Alliance getting its ass kicked in the cinematic? Then comes Anduin ex machina with Light magic stronger than Velen's, because even the Light itself has been converted to Blanduinism.

Yeah yeah I know WoWpedia isn't cannon, but there's nothing controversial in that recounting. Anduin most definitely experiences "issues".

The animation of the Bell collapsing starts before Garrosh does anything.

ITT: We dont like anduindbecuase he doesnt have faults

Also ITT: We dont like anduin because he is
Inexperienced (flaw 1)

If you actually managed to read this thread you'd have noticed that the argument is that 1) whenever Anduin's inexperience is brought up it's in direct violation of "show, don't tell" and as such is meaningless fluff that's only a pretended flaw and 2) his inexperience should affect him negatively in relation to other leaders, yet does not. Alas, nuance and context are hard.

too good guy (totally a flaw in a leader)

How? Especially when he can solve all problems that a normally written character would need to compromise their morals for with Light ex machina he pulls out of his ass when needed?

Honestly, I am slowly developing the opinion that people who dislike Anduin have just been sleeping under a rock, playing this game VIA LFR exclusivly and skipping all the cutscenes and quest text. Its like they judge novels by half of the title and a quarter of the cover art.

What does LFR have to do with seeing or not seeing Anduin?

Anduin is a compelling character to me because he is inexperienced and is learning how to be a leader, because he has been the goody good guy for a long time, and both we and him know that will nto work as a king, and because deep down, we all know that he is struggling with whether he wants to good guy or if he wants to burn the horde out of lordaeron for letting his father die.

So far he didn't compromise squat and managed to Justice no Jutsu his way to convert a hardcore Horde loyalist.

He spent the majority of the Isle of Thunder content patch convalescing at the Pandaren inn in the Valley of the Four Winds - pretty much entirely out of commission (and this after no less than Velen had tended to his wounds). I think your stretching credulity a bit - and this coming from someone who's no fan of Anduin's character in the story.

"Damn, I had a giant bell collapse on top of me. Let me walk it off mere weeks later with only this here cane showing that I was in an accident. I can't die because I'm going to lead the Alliance against some threat when I'm old, but the stakes are still through the roof right now."

Compared to Sylvanas, who dies! *5 minutes later* Thank valkyre im fine now, but whew i better farm some more of them.

I mean, so far Anduin has been affected by being crushed every bit as much as Sylvanas has by dying. We hear some stories about it, but they are both available for writers to keep working with.

You're comparing an undead being resurrected once again, costing them 3 out of 8 Val'kyr no less, to a scrawny human teenager who shrugged off being crushed by a bell that would have weighed a few tons. It's not very effective.

My goodness you people are boring. How many times can you repeat "IF NO HAVE FLAWS, NO GOOD CHARACTER!" It's like none of you have ever read a good story in your lives. Features don't need to be flaws to be artistic. You're the boring ones.

This is especially true since, in the real modern world, pure virtue is unbelievably rare.

I'm sorry. I could swear you mentioned a good story, but for some reason I see you talking about self-insert fanfiction stories.

[Dagoth Ur]

Anduin doesn't *do* anything, he simply reacts to what happens to him or around him. He might actually be a worthwhile character if he took the reins and led the Alliance for weal or for woe, but so far he simply hasn't done anything in that vein. The BfA cinematic has a brief flash of an Anduin who seems to take on a leadership role, for one shining moment, but after that he seems to return to relative passivity.

Tbh considering Anduin's archetype and BfA intro, I am even more afraid of what kind of stories we will get once he starts doing things lol.

[meowfurion]

---snip---

Maybe. But at least I don't assume authority and literally try to debate every single person on a thread who's opinion I disagree with in quotes.

Mod Edit: Don't quote a giant wall of text for a single-line response, it is both unnecessary and makes the thread difficult to read.

[Aucald]

Tbh considering Anduin's archetype and BfA intro, I am even more afraid of what kind of stories we will get once he starts doing things lol.

"The devil you know," as they say. I'm willing to give Anduin a chance to assume an active role and see what happens, although I would be lying if I said I thought it would go swimmingly. But tastes vary, I guess, so for those who like Anduin as he is it will probably be great.

[Mehrunes]

Tbh considering Anduin's archetype and BfA intro, I am even more afraid of what kind of stories we will get once he starts doing things lol.

The script has already been leaked.

Maybe. But at least I don't assume authority and literally try to debate every single person on a thread who's opinion I disagree with in quotes.

You mean using the forum for its intended purpose? Sorry, but this is not the grand retort you thought it to be.

[Dagoth Ur]

The script has already been leaked.

Hah, well shit. We just need Baine to become Warchief after that and our doom is complete.

[Zulkhan]

He one shot a Dreadlord and pummeled a Troll into the ground.

From the potency of the blow it looked like Varian's sword more or less carried the wielder in that occasion. What I truly found baffling though is how Anduin managed to effortlessly beat not one but two Orc grunts like it was nothing. And seriously, I hope someone isn't going to tell me "but he was owned by Saurfang!", as being owned by one of the Horde's best warriors of all times is somehow proof that someone is "weak" in melee combat.

[Mehrunes]

From the potency of the blow it looked like Varian's sword more or less carried the wielder in that occasion. What I truly found baffling though is how Anduin managed to effortlessly beat not one but two Orc grunts like it was nothing. And seriously, I hope someone isn't going to tell me "but he was owned by Saurfang!", as being owned by one of the Horde's best warriors of all times is somehow proof that someone is "weak" in melee combat.

Żulkhan pls, that's exactly what it means. Never mind that Saurfang was then instantly chased away by Genn, who in turn got disabled by a nameless Shaman.

[Zulkhan]

Enough to know that if people want to follow Anduin around, they would have chosen the Alliance. Simple stuff.

It’s just as dumb as if people were saying Alliance players would look forward to watching their leaders listen to and follow Sylvanas.

I mean, Alliance players didn't totally raise a ruckus over taking orders from Vol'jin. For like, a single patch.

[Arrashi]

I mean, Alliance players didn't totally raise a ruckus over taking orders from Vol'jin. For like, a single patch.

Now i want them to insert description of anduins smell combined with ability to take snarky jab at him.