I ate too many prunes

[Craaazyyy]

1. you forget use healthstone, enslave demon is STILL AN ABILITY, again you can use doomguard and infernal idk what your fucking talking about...
again you refuse to count haunt, burning rush or dark pact, you refuse to count the trinket row, also casting circle or nether ward, also soul shatter, and also curse of shadow.
so no again 31 (30 cause soulstone cant be used)
also i dont think cata had 2 demon abilities per pet...
so no its 30-35
stop removing all these abilities just because you want to
21-35
22- haunt
23- burning rush
24-glad med
25- casting/nether
26- soulshatyter
27-curse of shadow
28- doomguard
29-infernal
30- use healthstone, but then so would cata
so again 30-36

you cant go "oh in pvp" then go "oh yeah but you cant include honor talents"
and again you completly ignore the 15 row, and the 75 row.
i am putting you on ignore cause at this point it is childish how much you simply just go "well we dont count this because i dont want to and now look im factually right cause i cherrypicked my evidance"

here is the real thing


1) agony
2) banish
3) command demon
4) whatever the 2nd demon ability is
5) corruption
6) drain soul
7) healthstone
8) fear
9) health funnel
10) life tap
11) one out of coil, howl, port
12) phantom singularity
13) reap souls
14) siphon life
15) summon demon
16) unending resolve
17) unstable affliction
18) enslave demon
19) a curse
20) seed of corruption
21) was demonic gateway, but lets say it stays as an ability
22)haunt
23) burning rush/dark pact
24) glad med (It is baseline, not an item so)
25) casting circle/nether ward
26) soulshatter
27) curse of shadows
28) doomguard
29) infernal
30) Use healthstone

1)shadow bolt
2)haunt
3)armors
4-7)4 curses
8-9)two demon abilities (If they had 2 in cata, dont think they did but i cant remember)
10)corruption
11)UA
12)drain life
13)drain mana
14)healthstone
15)drain soul
16)soulburn
17)soul swap
18)health funnel
19)agony(not even gonna add doom)
20)fear
21)port
22)howl
23)coil
24)searing pain
25)rain of fire
26)hellfire
27)enslave demon
28)banish
29)shadow ward
30)shadowflame
31)fel flame
32)dark intent
33)demon soul
34)seed
35)soul harwest
36)life tap
37) use healthstone

i didnt forget anything btw(use healthstone if u wanna add it u can add for both).. i didnt use talents no one is using aka burning rush and dark pact, curse of shadows, haunt, soulshatter etc... u added infernals(u cant use them in pvp btw but well) add them to cata aswell then, same with trinket.. and i did include honor talents, USEFUL ONES

and well i am talking about pvp cuz well quite frankly thats what i care about the most and thats where u need to use all the abilities

[Queen of Hamsters]

Hahaha, more deflection with 0 proof. You want to talk about irony, then let's point out the fact that in your opening reply to me where you attempted to make me look stupid, you at the same time posted something so ridiculous that you have no hope of backing it up. At this point, you're just rambling.

... Was I attempting to make you look stupid? Because I'm fairly sure I was merely denouncing your unsubstantiated claims and logical fallacy with which you were attempting to argue.

Guess I struck a nerve then, which would explain why you're being so defensive. ¯\_(ツ)_/¯

- Veteran players are not some hive mind (duh).
- Many Veteran Classic players, hail Classic as the pinnacle in class design along with the rest.
- "Good" players, are not a hive mind that all agree on X thing just because you said so.

Feel free to disprove any of these, you to whom "proof" matters oh so much!

[FelPlague]

i didnt forget anything btw(use healthstone if u wanna add it u can add for both).. i didnt use talents no one is using aka burning rush and dark pact, curse of shadows, haunt, soulshatter etc... u added infernals(u cant use them in pvp btw but well) add them to cata aswell then, same with trinket..

uhh what?
i am done, yeah i am done, adding to ignore.
Yes, yes you can use infernal and doomguard in pvp.
and ok then 38 to 30
and again you keep using this argument "i dont include talents" that is stupid, because if we remove talents most of the cataclysm abilities would be useless and not on peoples bars, some wouldent exist, and also no the trinket is not built into the class in cataclysm so...



i love how yoru argument is "we need more ability choice, even spells no one uses!"
then when you compare you go "But no one uses these ones so they dont count for legion, but for cataclysm they do!"

[Craaazyyy]

uhh what?
i am done, yeah i am done, adding to ignore.
Yes, yes you can use infernal and doomguard in pvp.
and ok then 38 to 30
and again you keep using this argument "i dont include talents" that is stupid, because if we remove talents most of the cataclysm abilities would be useless and not on peoples bars, some wouldent exist, and also no the trinket is not built into the class in cataclysm so...



i love how yoru argument is "we need more ability choice, even spells no one uses!"
then when you compare you go "But no one uses these ones so they dont count for legion, but for cataclysm they do!"

im talking about instanced pvp.. and if you are talking about permanent doomguard and infernal then their abilities were already added as "two pet abilities"

and again I REMOVED useless talents, everyone used haunt in cata, nobody is using curse of shadows for example

what? im talking about TALENTS being useless.. not ABILITIES.. if they were added baseline i'd fucking LOVE it, but unfortunately those are talents.. and unfortunately other talents in the same row are just better 99% of the time

[Whatever Dude]

Guess I struck a nerve then

Yeah that seems to be your primary goal, rather than coming up with any coherent arguments. I saw you calling the other poster dumb too, because he dared to challenge you. Have fun with the consequences.

[Queen of Hamsters]

Yeah that seems to be your primary goal, rather than coming up with any coherent arguments. I saw you calling the other poster dumb, too because he dared to challenge you. Have fun with the consequences.

My arguments are fully coherent, you just don't want to accept them and have been attempting to deflect all along.
Takes one to know one, I suppose?

[Whatever Dude]

My arguments are fully coherent, you just don't want to accept them and have been attempting to deflect all along.
Takes one to know one, I suppose?

Your delusion really is a sight to behold. Please keep believing your arguments hold any water when you make ridiculous statements that have no hope of being backed up. All you really can do is attempt to make it personal and drag opponents down to your level. You seem to have nothing else to offer.

[Quoi]

Hahaha, more deflection with 0 proof. You want to talk about irony, then let's point out the fact that in your opening reply to me where you attempted to make me look stupid, you at the same time posted something so ridiculous that you have no hope of backing it up. At this point, you're just rambling

Veteran player here. Pruning, even 'extreme' pruning isn't a bad thing. Especially considering that Blizzard is folding a lot of the passive's into the baseline spell. And what in reality are they pruning (conceptually, not actually)? In most, a bunch of passives generated by passive bloat from this expansion. Legendarys and artifacts come to mind.

As I said earlier in this thread, during 95% of playing the game, I shouldn't have to press (macros excluded) more than 15ish abilities. That includes normal rotation, long cooldowns, medium cooldowns, and the other abilities (counterspell, dispell, banish, etc). Then I would say another 5-15 abilities of more fluff abilities or abilities that give fun or interesting or minor effects (underwater breathing, slow fall, teleport/portal). While I don't want pruning to the point of excess (think moba level of prune), gutting a bunch of abilities that are fairly pointless to have is needed.

Less abilities (in pvp) makes for a more competitive and balance-able game. Less abilities (in pve), allows for faster gameplay and more challenging game (while making it easier to balance).

While I know they are totally different games (apples to oranges comparison incoming), which is a more challenging game; Super Meat Boy, or World of Warcraft? Follow-up; Which is a more complex game?

[dacoolist]

We're all friends here, on a fansite forum talking about the game we love..

OT: I think Blizz Pruning can be a good thing, but if they take it too far, it can hurt a class such as Warrior feel. Remember how a warrior felt back in Cata vs. Mop?

Don't get me wrong: I fucken loved warriors being OP in Mop haha, and they were SHITE in most of Cata after the gap closing nerfs to mobility, but I mean... Remember Balance DROODS in Cata, bahahahahaha they had like 125 abilities you had to setup

Too much prune = teh suck, Too little prune = Cata Boomkin Hell (We want the feel of Cata warriors with the fun of it being new like classic, but we don't need 8 bars of abilities)

[Rogalicus]

so if a class has a number of spell like "debuff the X type mob" for each X type in the game and then the number of types is arbitrarily high, then the game is arbitrarily deep?

So if a class has only autoattack, one CC and one self-heal, does it allow Blizzard to balance them all perfectly and design fantastic raid encounters with 10 different circles on the floor, five of which you have to soak and another five to run out of?

[Skorpionss]

I dunno, I like prunes a lot, especially dried in the sun.

[FelPlague]

I dunno, I like prunes a lot, especially dried in the sun.

i prefer cranberry, dude, diet cranberry juice, really tastey, and zero sugar, and 10 calories a cup, super fucking good. nice ice cold with icecubes to sip... god yes

[Quoi]

i prefer cranberry, dude, diet cranberry juice, really tastey, and zero sugar, and 10 calories a cup, super fucking good. nice ice cold with icecubes to sip... god yes

Orange juice all the way. A good cranberry or grape juice is a nice change once in a while.

but in all seriousness, orange juice ftw.

[omeomorfismo]

So if a class has only autoattack, one CC and one self-heal, does it allow Blizzard to balance them all perfectly and design fantastic raid encounters with 10 different circles on the floor, five of which you have to soak and another five to run out of?

balance sure, lack of differences is a requisite for perfect balance. the rest where it come from?
i only used your, bad, definition of depth in gameplay to build an example to expose how wrong it is.

[FelPlague]

Orange juice all the way. A good cranberry or grape juice is a nice change once in a while.

but in all seriousness, orange juice ftw.

orange juice has WAAAAAAY too much sugar dude.
has more sugar then some pops

coke-a-cola

minute maid orange juice
(had to do 1 milieter servings, 330 cause well not same sizes)

[Quoi]

lack of differences is a requisite for perfect balance.

Which is why I think Blizzard should have planned imbalance.

ie: Make mages the absolute highest single target dps in the game. Make warriors the best single target tanks in the game. With guidelines like that, where every specialization or a pair of specializations are the best at something. It makes balancing a lot easier.

[omeomorfismo]

Which is why I think Blizzard should have planned imbalance.

ie: Make mages the absolute highest single target dps in the game. Make warriors the best single target tanks in the game. With guidelines like that, where every specialization or a pair of specializations are the best at something. It makes balancing a lot easier.

not in a game where the competitives play like 5 chars. it only enforce to build bosses around perfect comps or totally faceroll for these perfect comps.

[Quoi]

orange juice has WAAAAAAY too much sugar dude.

The good orange juice or the shitty 'orange juice'? I'll give you that even the best orange juice (direct from the orange nipple itself) has more sugar than most juices, but it is a healthier sugar than say soda. The problem with cranberry juice is it is dry af. If I wanted something that dry, I'll go for a white wine or something. But alas, the tartness of a good cranberry is amazing.

I know you mentioned diet cranberry, but looking at regular cran and orange juice, orange juice has less sugar than regular cran juice (22g/8ox vs 28g/8oz). I simply can't find a diet orange juice. Because diet things need to go away. Like ability bloat in wow.

[Rogalicus]

balance sure, lack of differences is a requisite for perfect balance. the rest where it come from?
i only used your, bad, definition of depth in gameplay to build an example to expose how wrong it is.

And I only used your stupid ad absurdum to create equally stupid ad absurdum.

[Quoi]

it only enforce to build bosses around perfect comps or totally faceroll for these perfect comps.

And I don't see the problem with that. Of course I don't agree with Blizzard's mentality of looking to make each expansion it's own game, and force everyone to play that expansion, and the older expansions become dead. IMO, it should take the entire expansion for the best guilds to learn and run through once all of the raids in that expansion. The less talented, will get more powerful, through level and other gear, to tackle older expansion's content. There are other things, like having BiS come from different expansions.

This is all a great departure from the current wow model where each tier needs to be stand alone better than the previous, and the current expansion stand alone better than the previous.

Looking at Everquest, there is end-game content that is multi-expansions old, and some of the BiS comes from really really old expansions.

Planned imbalance is a good thing for games that can't have perfect balance. Now I'm not saying that it should be a clear cut ahead-of-the-pack lead, but a clear one given same player skill.

The razor's edge of the best of the best only exemplifies the imbalances of each class and spec. The general masses takes that information to claim that their spec needs buffs, others need nerfs.