Would you give up the Blood Elf skeleton to gain Alliance High Elfs?

[GreenJesus]

Where is the option for no High elf on Alliance period?

[Obelisk Kai]

The Void Elf story is merely a re-thread of the Blood Elven one and I care little for it. What I care is for blood elves to not loose their identity as survivors willing to get their hands dirty to persist. That they have a new source of power doesn't change that, nor it should, because Blood Elves looked oblivion on the face and said "F*ck you* And if we must follow through the light focus on Belves, I hope it is through that same ideology of survival, not some neutered light worshiping pointy eared humans. Night Elves already lost everything that made them cool in WoW, I don't want the same to happen to Blood Elves.

That particular storyline ended ten years ago. The reason they faced oblivion was because the Sunwell had been destroyed and they were subsisting off of corrupting fel energies. That is no longer case. This does not mean the Blood Elves are unwilling to 'get their hands' dirty to survive. Their entire membership of the Horde is now predicated on belonging to an organisation dedicated to doing just that. But that does not preclude them becoming an increasingly light focused race. If the path is followed, it would make sense considering the thalassian elves on the Alliance are servants of the Void. That's an ideological conflict that has relevance today, not a long forgotten debate over siphoning mana from rodents.

ONE ARTWORK OF LIADRIN. That is all. Does she have golden eyes? Or is she actually channeling a spell? We are indeed free to speculate, and I would actually like some golden eyes, BUT:



Those are your words, and certainly not just speculation since you clearly state she is supposed to have Golden eyes. That's a headcanon -until confirmed or not- because are you aware that headcanons are based on speculation right?

This is an officially approved artwork at that, which deliberately gave her golden eyes. I am not going to die in a ditch on this point. She may or may not have them. But you cannot rule out the possibility since for some reason it deliberately offends you. Only time will tell.

I must decline yet another circular argumentation because you have already been given counters to these point multiple times. Must we waste more time and space on that?

That only works if the counters provided are any good. I have found the arguments of the pro High Elf side ridiculously easy to dismantle. Of course, this is the same bunch of people who have heard the game director rule out playable Alliance High Elves...and yet have produced a manifesto with a segment entitled 'Ion did not say no'.

You think my arguments are countered because you wish them to be. But I provide evidence from within game and without showcasing dev intent. All I ever hear from the other side is unsupported supposition and the regurgitation of simplistic statements they think are rhetorical one shots.

Hint? Are we talking about a multinational company we buy products from or asking a cute girl on homecoming? Dear god. Void Elves neither have the aesthetic nor the lore, so it was never a compromise for people that wanted High Elves.

I think Blizzard stretched themselves as far as they were going to on this matter. A large chunk of this fan group would be satisfied with nothing less than a clone. Of a race that is supposed to be a major selling point of the Horde. As for the people that want to play High Elves, they have the same right as everyone else to play a High Elf. As Ion stated, Blood Elves are High Elves, so that experience is present on the Horde.

What these people actually want is to play the Horde's most popular race on the Alliance. That is not OK.

Also bolded for disingenuousness. Fair would be also give the horde an alliance looking race, or just modify the Belf model enough it looks distinct to the original a la Nightborne. You speak of fairness when you simple do not care about what other people want. Own to that at least.

They have as much right to play an Alliance High Elf as I do to play a Horde Draenei.

Show me the Horde Draenei, Worgen and Night Elven equivalents of the Silver Covenant, Quel'Lithien and Allerian Stronghold. Do you want a fact? No other "opposite" faction race has such a strong presence on the other side like High Elves, who have been on the alliance well before WoW, and all the way through it. But I guess false equivalence is all you've got.

The High Elves left the Alliance, renamed themselves the Blood Elves and joined the Horde. The remant who remained with the Alliance seem to consist of disgruntled hunters. And you are missing the point. The point is, the High Elves (now the Blood Elves) are a Horde race. I don't care that there is tiny group of them who rebelled. That's faction furniture, a nod toward the past. If you want to play a High Elf, as the lead dev himself has said, you have to roll a Horde character.

If you can't stomach Horde, there is a 95% match to a High Elf available to Alliance players.

If you want both, tough. Two elf choices, one per faction, pick one and live with it.

Ahhh, "I am quite satisfied with the status quo", the statement of those that already have what they want.

Well when Alliance High Elves means that Void Elves becomes freaks and Blood Elves become imposters, then we lose something. So I really don't want to see a bunch of Alliance players riding around on their Blood Elf clones pretending to be the oh so pure, oh so noble, REAL High Elves. Because that's what will happen if this nonsense is implemented.

[MyWholeLifeIsThunder]

That particular storyline ended ten years ago. The reason they faced oblivion was because the Sunwell had been destroyed and they were subsisting off of corrupting fel energies. That is no longer case. This does not mean the Blood Elves are unwilling to 'get their hands' dirty to survive. Their entire membership of the Horde is now predicated on belonging to an organisation dedicated to doing just that. But that does not preclude them becoming an increasingly light focused race. If the path is followed, it would make sense considering the thalassian elves on the Alliance are servants of the Void. That's an ideological conflict that has relevance today, not a long forgotten debate over siphoning mana from rodents.

Sure, let's just get Blood Elves and Void Elves into those perfectly contrasting holes, it don't matter if they are square pegs. The fact that you seem to care more a about thematic dichotomy over identity organic progression says a lot. Blood Elves don't have to be defined by the light to be interesting, unlike Void Elves, which is all they have. I'm all for "some" Pious Blood Elves, but to see their whole identity washed over by the light would be the worst.

This is an officially approved artwork at that, which deliberately gave her golden eyes. I am not going to die in a ditch on this point. She may or may not have them. But you cannot rule out the possibility since for some reason it deliberately offends you. Only time will tell.

Indeed, only time will tell, so you have no need to say she is "supposed to have golden eyes".

That only works if ...

As long as you believe your interpretation is evidence, it's pointless to discuss with you. Cause Liadrin is supposed to have golden eyes. That's as much as I trust your alleged "sticking to evidence".

As for the people that want to play High Elves, they have the same right as everyone else to play a High Elf. As Ion stated, Blood Elves are High Elves, so that experience is present on the Horde.

Sure, the experience of playing an alliance high elf is in the horde. I would have more faith in your arguments if you at least understood why people want high elves. You talk about fairness, yet are incapable of understanding the base of the issue, and willfully dismiss the why of it all.

What these people actually want is to play the Horde's most popular race on the Alliance. That is not OK.

Stop presuming what other people want.

They have as much right to play an Alliance High Elf as I do to play a Horde Draenei

Right's have nothing to do about this. You are the one that chose to compare the place in lore of High Elves in the alliance with the complete non-existent Draenei in the horde.

The High Elves left the Alliance, renamed themselves the Blood Elves and joined the Horde. The remant who remained with the Alliance seem to consist of disgruntled hunters. And you are missing the point...

Yeah, no, that's the point of why people want high elves. You are the one that keeps missing the point. People want high elves because they stayed in the alliance. Again if you can't understand that you are bound to keep missing the point.

Well when Alliance High Elves means that Void Elves becomes freaks and Blood Elves become imposters, then we lose something. So I really don't want to see a bunch of Alliance players riding around on their Blood Elf clones pretending to be the oh so pure, oh so noble, REAL High Elves. Because that's what will happen if this nonsense is implemented.

Now you are just being insecure. "They will think they are better than me" really mate?

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Where is the option for no High elf on Alliance period?

That's not commenting on the thread, my savior.

[NuLogic]

Sure I'm down for some thicc elves. You guys know what I'm talking about?

[Goretex]

Cool how? Thematically? Mechanically?

High Elves WERE like that. Those who remained like this today are Blood Elves.

Void elves have darker skin, cooler looking hair styles, and cooler facial hair than belfs or Nightborne. Belfs look like they got bleached in a washing machine, and lack of facial hair bugs me, and less cool hairstyles. Nightborne, I had to delete mine, they look like old withered elves. No cool hair styles, facial options, or skin color I liked at all, I can't stand them lol.

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So how long do you figure your whiny buch will start demanding rights to Silvermoon? You don't get it do you? The reason they didn't add High Elves and chose to crap out a void version was because the races are identical, except the eye color (and even that shouldn't be a thing any more) and political beliefs which meant they would have to share lore. I mean, look around, Alliance assholes have been DEMANDING the retaking of Lordaeron even if they didn't have any actual justification, so, please. Let's not pretend this hasn't been discussed over and over.

They gave you Velfs, enough.

This right here.

[MyWholeLifeIsThunder]

So how long do you figure your whiny buch will start demanding rights to Silvermoon? You don't get it do you? The reason they didn't add High Elves and chose to crap out a void version was because the races are identical, except the eye color (and even that shouldn't be a thing any more) and political beliefs which meant they would have to share lore. I mean, look around, Alliance assholes have been DEMANDING the retaking of Lordaeron even if they didn't have any actual justification, so, please. Let's not pretend this hasn't been discussed over and over.

They gave you Velfs, enough.

What's stopping Void Elves from wanting to reclaim Silvermoon? High Elves at least seem to mostly have left on their own, Void Elves are the ones that got kicked out. So this bridge already got crossed, without a playable High Elf in sight.

I don't know why people aren't understanding this.

As they were conceptualizing "Thalassian Elves" for the Alliance, they must've noticed that HE's were both culturally and visually similar to BE's -- and VE's, while culturally almost identical to BE's, are at least visually distinct. That's 50% more distinction, immediately, by electing to go with VE's instead of HE's. You'll hear no argument about this from reasonable folks -- the true contentiousness stems from the fact that if both HE's and VE's were both culturally similar to BE's anyways, why not just have the HE's be the group that became VE's? Would've killed two birds and ended this discussion, forever.

Bingo.

If they had made VE form the already Alliance HE, you'd have FAR LESS people arguing still for High Elves.

I personally wouldn't.

[Obelisk Kai]

I don't know why people aren't understanding this.

As they were conceptualizing "Thalassian Elves" for the Alliance, they must've noticed that HE's were both culturally and visually similar to BE's -- and VE's, while culturally almost identical to BE's, are at least visually distinct. That's 50% more distinction, immediately, by electing to go with VE's instead of HE's. You'll hear no argument about this from reasonable folks -- the true contentiousness stems from the fact that if both HE's and VE's were both culturally similar to BE's anyways, why not just have the HE's be the group that became VE's? Would've killed two birds and ended this discussion, forever.

Clearly they considered it. We know they considered High Elves, we know they rejected High Elves too as they created Void Elves in their stead.

As to why they didn't use the SC as a base I can only guess.

Maybe they want to use the very few High Elves remaining as the source of a future Half Elf Allied race.

Maybe the few high elves do have a story purpose left, preferably their deaths spurring Alleria down a more reckless path.

Maybe Blizzard has actually believed the whole 'their population is too low to be viable' spiel they've been taking about for fifteen years and felt that there weren't enough high elves to be viable. I know the pro High Elf crowd keeps saying this argument doesn't matter, but Blizzard is the one continually bringing it up. Personally I believe there are more Void Elves than Alliance high elves.

Whatever the reason, they didn't use them and went to the bother of creating a replacement. Frankly, this debate ended the moment they added Void Elves.
They wouldn't have gone to the bother of creating Void Elves if they ever had any intention of adding alliance High Elves.

[Deleted]

Whatever the reason, they didn't use them and went to the bother of creating a replacement. Frankly, this debate ended the moment they added Void Elves.
They wouldn't have gone to the bother of creating Void Elves if they ever had any intention of adding alliance High Elves.

Boils down to pretty much this. In favour or against Alliance highelves is entirely worthless to argue because the addition of Velves means the chance of it happening has been shut down for a atleast a few years. No one knows what WoW will look like in 5 years, so I can't say never. But 'not soon (tm)' seems entirely plausible.

[Evilfish]

What's stopping Void Elves from wanting to reclaim Silvermoon? High Elves at least seem to mostly have left on their own, Void Elves are the ones that got kicked out. So this bridge already got crossed, without a playable High Elf in sight.

Common sense. The story. The Alliance ideology. Or do you imagine everyone will be cool with them turing Silvermoon into a void-monster-vomiting orifice which is what Alleria nearly did. If you people would spend more time reading lore, or simply paying attention, instead of whining you wouldn't ask so many stupid questions.

[MyWholeLifeIsThunder]

Common sense. The story. The Alliance ideology. Or do you imagine everyone will be cool with them turing Silvermoon into a void-monster-vomiting orifice which is what Alleria nearly did. If you people would spend more time reading lore, or simply paying attention, instead of whining you wouldn't ask so many stupid questions.

That's a winded nonsense response for my question; what's the difference between Void Elf players wanting to claim Silvermoon and hypothetical High Elf players wanting to do the same? Now try answering that like an adult without throwing a hissy fit.

[Sorrior]

Honestly i say run with WC2 almost celtic stylings a bit more. I feel like WC2 High Elves actually WERE a cross between night elf and blood elf. More foresty but more western/celtic(see heavy facepaint and their general designs) i feel like they would be slightly stockier, have bonusesbto magic and ranged damage while having

Warrior, hunter, mage, priest and death knights as classes.

Could work well at least imo

[Evilfish]

That's a winded nonsense response for my question; what's the difference between Void Elf players wanting to claim Silvermoon and hypothetical High Elf players wanting to do the same? Now try answering that like an adult without throwing a hissy fit.

Aw, can't accept the answer, not my problem. But a whiner asking me to act like an adult so ironic and funny.

[MyWholeLifeIsThunder]

Aw, can't accept the answer, not my problem. But a whiner asking me to act like an adult so ironic and funny.

Still waiting for an actual answer, not just fangless edgyness.

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Honestly i say run with WC2 almost celtic stylings a bit more. I feel like WC2 High Elves actually WERE a cross between night elf and blood elf. More foresty but more western/celtic(see heavy facepaint and their general designs) i feel like they would be slightly stockier, have bonusesbto magic and ranged damage while having

Warrior, hunter, mage, priest and death knights as classes.

Could work well at least imo

Agreed; I actually feel like Night Elves were intended to replace both thematically and in the lore High Elves, and the first look we got at the sentinels and druids in War3 felt like that, and allowed the Thalassian Elves to veer to a more high fantasy route, as well then the development of Blood Elves.

But Now well into a decade of WoW, the whole "celtic druidic ranger" thematic and aesthetic High Elves had on war2 is just lost: The Sentinels turned out to be basically a military, the druids are nature worshipping hippies, the Blood Elven farstriders are a group of less magical archer elves that really don't get much air time.

And it's really a bummer that that War2 Elf fantasy is just lost, because it still has a place in WoW given how the other elf races have developed.

[Evilfish]

Still waiting for an actual answer, not just fangless edgyness.

The only answer you are waiting for, given your post history, is total agreement with your childish demand. Well, buddy, not gonna happen not from me, not from Blizzard. You might have had a chance a while back but now, it's over. Let it go. Grow up. Act like an adult instead of telling others to, when you act like a brat. Enjoy the Velfs or don't. I don't give a shit. But let it go. Let the forums be free of your moronic, irritating whining.

[MyWholeLifeIsThunder]

The only answer you are waiting for, given your post history, is total agreement with your childish demand. Well, buddy, not gonna happen not from me, not from Blizzard. You might have had a chance a while back but now, it's over. Let it go. Grow up. Act like an adult instead of telling others to, when you act like a brat. Enjoy the Velfs or don't. I don't give a shit. But let it go. Let the forums be free of your moronic, irritating whining.

So, is that answer to my actual question happening or is all of this more of your performative posturing? Just let me know if you are actually looking for a discussion or if this is just an ego thing for you.

[Ithekro]

Replacing the Blood Elf model for a more human-like Elf model and calling them High Elves would probably work for most people that have desired Alliance High Elves since before TBC came out. As for were they would live. Well there are two or three, possibly even four options, depending on what happens in BfA.

Option One: Dalaran (most Alliance allied High Elves we see in game are from there and it seems like the most likely place you would start to see High Elves becoming more Human-like)

Option Two: Stormwind (Main capital of the Alliance and likely home of refuges that didn't return to Silvermoon)

Option Three (depending on what is going on in BfA): Gilnaes (I could see Gilnaes becoming the forward refugee and war capital of the Alliance facing down the remaining Forsaken territories and Silvermoon's Blood Elves)

Option Four (depending on post-BfA status) Lordaeron (Have the elves help in retaking the blighted lands once held by the Forsaken and Scourge while having to face off against their cousins from Silvermoon.)

My thoughts are that it isn't the model, its the fantasy Alliance elves that aren't Night Elves (which are a very different fantasy) or potentially corrupted by the Void. Just elves. Would they be superior to Blood Elves? No. The Blood Elves have the majority of the population and former land holdings, including Silvermoon and the Sunwell. The remaining High Elves are beginning to blend in with Humans, and since elves for some reason seem to be genetically able to change their forms in less than a generation to suit some new setting, it wouldn't be too much of a stretch for the High Elves to basically start looking more like their Human neighbors, but with pointed ears. Like a half way point between the Blood Elf model and the Human model.

[Deleted]

Cut the shit. Don't try to change the subject with these amateurish, poorly timed psychology attempts that have no actual point. What the hell could I even be projecting? Or is that a new word you learned?

Stay on subject or keep your mouth shut.

I dunno, maybe projecting some painful memories with Alliance you once had to this issue? I don't know, but judging from your very emotional response full of insults with a mix of nonsense, this issue is deeply personal for you. If the discussions about a fictional story in a video game work you up so much, maybe you should take a break from the game or just the game forums. Just for your mental health.

Void Elves were clearly designed to give the Alliance a thalassian model without giving them High Elves.

This is blindingly obvious, and anyone who is arguing to the contrary is either in denial or engaging in sophistry.

Void Elves cast a shadow over this entire debate because their addition means Alliance High Elves are now incredibly unlikely. Too many people want to pretend that they can argue for High Elves on their own merit and ignore the Void Elf on one side and the Blood Elf on the other.

You really couldn't help yourself and just had to respond to an obvious bait that wasn't even meant for you, don't you? I even had a brief exchange of posts with you about this a few days ago so you really had to know where I was going with it.

But seriously, I am really on a fence whether you are a deliberate troll and liar or you seriously don't get that High Elf fans don't care about Void Elves and what they were meant to do and that the main purpose of these threads is so that Blizzard see what many players want and change their minds. I mean, I would understand if you didn't get that if you weren't familiar with this topic but you post walls of text in them for months or years so you don't have this excuse.

[Obelisk Kai]

You really couldn't help yourself and just had to respond to an obvious bait that wasn't even meant for you, don't you? I even had a brief exchange of posts with you about this a few days ago so you really had to know where I was going with it.

But seriously, I am really on a fence whether you are a deliberate troll and liar or you seriously don't get that High Elf fans don't care about Void Elves and what they were meant to do and that the main purpose of these threads is so that Blizzard see what many players want and change their minds. I mean, I would understand if you didn't get that if you weren't familiar with this topic but you post walls of text in them for months or years so you don't have this excuse.

There seems to be a marked unwillingness on the part of the pro High Elf community to accept that ANYONE could have a genuine disagreement with them. Everyone who is opposed is either a troll, or an autist, or a vile, hateful person. That says more about the mindset of a group that refuses to face the facts when they are laid out in front of them in a calm, rational manner.

As for your second potential point, that I don't get it, this is symptomatic of the other flaw in the High Elf community. The galaxy sized sense of entitlement. What, do you think you've failed to get across Void Elves weren't what you wanted? That if you just find the right form of words the scales will fall from everyone's eyes and they will see the righteousness of your request?

Get over yourself. It was apparent months ago that Void Elves weren't going to be enough for the hardcore pro High Elf fan. And? Even Blizzard probably knew it wouldn't be enough for the hardcore pro High Elf fan. But Blizzard graciously pointed out that High Elves are available.

As Blood Elves on the Horde.

And if you can't stomach the Horde, you've 'another flavour of High Elf' on the Alliance.

So, for people who enjoy the race and model, we have two options, one on each faction. This is where the galaxy sized level of entitlement comes in, you want a third.

Tough.

[Evilfish]

I dunno, maybe projecting some painful memories with Alliance you once had to this issue? I don't know, but judging from your very emotional response full of insults with a mix of nonsense, this issue is deeply personal for you. If the discussions about a fictional story in a video game work you up so much, maybe you should take a break from the game or just the game forums. Just for your mental health.

Or maybe I'm just tired of seeing you whine. I mean, for fuck sake, Blizz gave you something. Take a hint and shut up. But you do what instead? You whine harder and when someone disagrees with you, points out the FACT that what you asked for was given to you in a reasonable way, you start going ape shit, pretend you don't understand the answer or just try to invent an issue the person disagreeing with you is suffering from, like you are doing right now. And at the same time, you seem shocked and appalled that not only do these people disagree with your demands, but act like you are a prick too.

You guys are a plague on these forums.

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So, is that answer to my actual question happening or is all of this more of your performative posturing? Just let me know if you are actually looking for a discussion or if this is just an ego thing for you.

There's no discussion. It ended with Velfs. Everyone got that. Why can't you?

[Deleted]

There seems to be a marked unwillingness on the part of the pro High Elf community to accept that ANYONE could have a genuine disagreement with them. Everyone who is opposed is either a troll, or an autist, or a vile, hateful person. That says more about the mindset of a group that refuses to face the facts when they are laid out in front of them in a calm, rational manner.

Well, I personally consider as serious trolls or very irrational people only very few out of the many anti-high elf people on the forums. You are one of these very few people, despite the fact that you indeed post calm and well structured posts. I am not even sure why I responded to you in the first place, my mistake.

Or maybe I'm just tired of seeing you whine.

Guess what, you can always ignore the High Elf threads. It's not like all of the threads on the forums are about them and that this discussion is forced on you. If you are tired of it, you can always skip it. But here you are, commenting in the High Elf thread that you hate so much like some kind of a masochist.

or just try to invent an issue the person disagreeing with you is suffering from, like you are doing right now.

I started to write that to you because your post was full of insults and toxicity. Read your post that I have responded to for the first time yourself and tell me why exactly should I have answered to it in in a respectful and constructive manner?