Anyone else not buying Jaina's ''tough look''?

[Darth Vowrawn]

turns out when the orcs haven't done any thing and just want to survive isn't the same as them nuking your city and then betraying your neutral city then abandoning your king to die.

Only one of those is true, the other two baseless.

1. The Sunreavers didn't "betray" the "neutrality", especially if Jaina broke it first by aiding the Alliance by giving them a WMD and then putting up wards to help them defend against the Horde. One Sunreaver spy doesn't justify butchering them all for giggles. It only shows that she was utterly unfit to be leader of the Kirin Tor.
2. There was no "betrayal" at the Broken Shore. A "tactical retreat", which saved many Alliance lives to boot, is not a "betrayal" just because King Chynn the Great decides to commit "suicide by Warlock". If the Horde had shot the Alliance in the back while they were fighting Gul'dan's minions, THAT would have been a "betrayal". Losing a battle against a numerically superior force and then being forced out, resulting in the Alliance having to leave because of the Legion's pincer maneuver is not a "betrayal".

[etheldald]

Only one of those is true, the other two baseless.

1. The Sunreavers didn't "betray" the "neutrality", especially if Jaina broke it first by aiding the Alliance by giving them a WMD and then putting up wards to help them defend against the Horde. One Sunreaver spy doesn't justify butchering them all for giggles. It only shows that she was utterly unfit to be leader of the Kirin Tor.
2. There was no "betrayal" at the Broken Shore. A "tactical retreat", which saved many Alliance lives to boot, is not a "betrayal" just because King Chynn the Great decides to commit "suicide by Warlock". If the Horde had shot the Alliance in the back while they were fighting Gul'dan's minions, THAT would have been a "betrayal". Losing a battle against a numerically superior force and then being forced out, resulting in the Alliance having to leave because of the Legion's pincer maneuver is not a "betrayal".

1)aethas betrayed the kirin tor, he is the leader of the sunreavers.
2) i agree with this one, but it's blizzard who decides that this will be the reason why we are at war.

Even her dead father still hates her.

Garrosh was a rebel and his choice to destroy Theramore was not the majority voice of the Horde. She's just a pissy spoiled brat that can't even avenge that damned island even for the wrong reasons, only creating more problems.



True, I also didn't really like Dadgar being plastered all over the place, I'm glad he got screen time though.

yeah, 2 things.
1 her hatred is justified.
2 it's not her dead father, it's her nightmare.

but like i said, you got your opinion, we would never agree on this one.
good day.

[Deleted]

yeah, 2 things.
1 her hatred is justified.
2 it's not her dead father, it's her nightmare.

but like i said, you got your opinion, we would never agree on this one.
good day.

Her hatred isn't justified in any way. Please tell me how without saying 'Theramore' because that meme got old.
Daelin hated her before he died too and when he arrived to rescue her in WC3 she betrayed him and stayed with the Horde.

Good day.

[Lorgar Aurelian]

Even her dead father still hates her.




Garrosh was a rebel and his choice to destroy Theramore was not the majority voice of the Horde. She's just a pissy spoiled brat that can't even avenge that damned island even for the wrong reasons, only creating more problems.



True, I also didn't really like Dadgar being plastered all over the place, I'm glad he got screen time though.

garrosh was there god dam war chief and had each and every horde race show up he was in no way a bloody rebel. and if Jaina had wanted to she could have wiped out all of org and more then likely the rest of the horde after words single handed, its not that she couldn't get revenge its that she chose not to.

[Sett]

You're not going to like all the characters in Warcraft and that's an okay thing. I couldn't give a shit out any troll garbage yet they are going to have major story arcs for the Horde. However even if I dislike all those characters some out there are going to enjoy them.

As for Jaina, she has gone through an extreme amount of change over the years. The fact she's had her hand bitten for being an orc sympathizer is signs of story telling and character development. I'm glad she's not being welcomed in and needing to build her reputation back up. (Also happy we're seeing this in game for once and it not being shoved into the books. It's easy to tell on the forums who's kept up with the books/quests and who hasn't.)

[Deleted]

garrosh was there god dam war chief and had each and every horde race show up he was in no way a bloody rebel. and if Jaina had wanted to she could have wiped out all of org and more then likely the rest of the horde after words single handed, its not that she couldn't get revenge its that she chose not to.

Wrong. Just because Garrosh was the Warchief doesn't mean the Horde was behind him. Of course he was a rebel when ummm.... the entirety of the Horde besieged Orgrimmar to dethrone him for his actions?? The Darkspear hated him, the Forsaken hated him, the Blood Elves always thought he was hot headed, the Tauren racial leader called him out to fight. Garrosh was a rebel and paid for it.

Nice, where did you read her power level? Literal Kul'Tiras marines thrown her ass into jail and she didn't do anything and you're talking about single handedly destroying cities? /10c

[Lorgar Aurelian]

Only one of those is true, the other two baseless.

1. The Sunreavers didn't "betray" the "neutrality", especially if Jaina broke it first by aiding the Alliance by giving them a WMD and then putting up wards to help them defend against the Horde. One Sunreaver spy doesn't justify butchering them all for giggles. It only shows that she was utterly unfit to be leader of the Kirin Tor.
2. There was no "betrayal" at the Broken Shore. A "tactical retreat", which saved many Alliance lives to boot, is not a "betrayal" just because King Chynn the Great decides to commit "suicide by Warlock". If the Horde had shot the Alliance in the back while they were fighting Gul'dan's minions, THAT would have been a "betrayal". Losing a battle against a numerically superior force and then being forced out, resulting in the Alliance having to leave because of the Legion's pincer maneuver is not a "betrayal".

she didn't give them the bell and putting up wards to keep it out of the war is not the same as stealing it to use in the war. not to mention she didn't even butcher all of the sunreavers.

the fact that we know there isn't a betrayal isn't relevant as the characters in game don't know that.

[Darth Vowrawn]

1)aethas betrayed the kirin tor, he is the leader of the sunreavers.
2) i agree with this one, but it's blizzard who decides that this will be the reason why we are at war.

Aethas can't betray the Kirin Tor if Jaina already did so. The utter hypocrisy of Jaina on that, was staggering and should have warranted her being thrown into a cell for the butchery of innocent civilians. If she had simply arrested Aethas, that would have been fine. But her acting as though his crime was somehow worse than her own, is laughable.

Even her dead father still hates her.

Her father was a c*nt. A genocidal, stupid, ignorant one, at that. Daelin stabbed Jaina in the back, usurped her city, tried to commit genocide, and is somehow surprised that his sane and loving daughter actually had moral standards and wasn't a psychotic racist willing to stomp on infants in the streets. He's the one who, technically, started all of the wars to the present, as he is the one who seeded the Orcs with their hatred and mistrust of Humans as genocidal murderers out to kill them all, that lead to assholes like Garrosh getting all of his support. He created a self-fulfilling prophecy, and deserves no sympathy.

which genocide did she try and commit?

Tried to exterminate the entire Orcish race with a tidal wave. That's genocide. She also tried to keep a war going after the dictator that actually wronged her was dragged away in chains, just so she could slaughter all of the Horde races for fun.

[Daevelian]

Her hatred isn't justified in any way. Please tell me how without saying 'Theramore' because that meme got old.
Daelin hated her before he died too and when he arrived to rescue her in WC3 she betrayed him and stayed with the Horde.

Good day.

He hatred is justified in the horde repeatedly attacking her despite her playing good. The horde simply cannot be trusted, there are many occasions this has been demonstrated, even if biased horde players just scream "Muh garrosh!" every time any of it is brought up.

I'm also sure you missed the point of those voice lines being nothing more than Jaina's own guilt during her nightmare and NOT the actual representation of Daelin himself.

Please drop your extreme bias, at this point you simply look incredibly childish.

Edit:

just so she could slaughter all of the Horde races for fun.

This dudes post was painful to read, but this part, wow. The delusion of the typical horde player on MMO-C is friggin amazing lately.

[Lorgar Aurelian]

Wrong. Just because Garrosh was the Warchief doesn't mean the Horde was behind him. Of course he was a rebel when ummm.... the entirety of the Horde besieged Orgrimmar to dethrone him for his actions?? The Darkspear hated him, the Forsaken hated him, the Blood Elves always thought he was hot headed, the Tauren racial leader called him out to fight. Garrosh was a rebel and paid for it.

Nice, where did you read her power level? Literal Kul'Tiras marines thrown her ass into jail and she didn't do anything and you're talking about single handedly destroying cities? /10c

the horde didn't give a crap about garrosh until he was there problem not a one of them rebelled for what happend at thereamore.

she also had the focusing iris in tides of war which gave her the ability to sink all of org if she wanted to. if she chose to she could have wiped out the horde and they would be powerless to stop her.

- - - Updated - - -

Tried to exterminate the entire Orcish race with a tidal wave. That's genocide. She also tried to keep a war going after the dictator that actually wronged her was dragged away in chains, just so she could slaughter all of the Horde races for fun.

she didn't try jack, she wanted to and then deiced not to if she wanted to the orcs would be dead. wanting some one dead is not the same as actually doing it or even trying to. the horde had NO way to stop her she didn't try to wipe them out because if she did try they would have been wiped out with no way to stop her.

[Deleted]

He hatred is justified in the horde repeatedly attacking her despite her playing good. The horde simply cannot be trusted, there are many occasions this has been demonstrated, even if biased horde players just scream "Muh garrosh!" every time any of it is brought up.

I'm also sure you missed the point of those voice lines being nothing more than Jaina's own guilt during her nightmare and NOT the actual representation of Daelin himself.

Please drop your extreme bias, at this point you simply look incredibly childish.

Go play WC3 that includes Daelin and Jaina and look at their first encounter. His feelings were the same as her ''nightmare'' because she is a traitor.
I have no bias at all, if opinions make you hurt, you're the one that's childish.

/10ch

[Darth Vowrawn]

she didn't give them the bell and putting up wards to keep it out of the war is not the same as stealing it to use in the war. not to mention she didn't even butcher all of the sunreavers.

Putting up wards to help the Alliance defend a dangerous weapon that many in the Alliance were likely itching to use, is not being "neutral". Even Vol'jin, who hated Garrosh more than most, thought that stealing it from them was the right thing to do, as he was afraid the Alliance would use it. If Jaina was truly neutral, she would have taken the bell herself, and had it destroyed or locked away inside Dalaran, instead of letting Night Elves keep it.

the fact that we know there isn't a betrayal isn't relevant as the characters in game don't know that.

It would have been, had Princess Proudmoore used her brain and did those things she used to do (thinking and talking).

[Daevelian]

Go play WC3 that includes Daelin and Jaina and look at their first encounter. His feelings were the same as her ''nightmare'' because she is a traitor.
I have no bias at all, if opinions make you hurt, you're the one that's childish.

/10ch

I'm not sure you know what /10ch means, but you have greatly misused it there.

I have played WC3, yes, he hated her for what he did. The point is that the voice lines you used as "evidence" are in fact not evidence at all. Perhaps try reading comprehension classes?

You should also look into what a guilty conscious can do to someone and their memories.

And hey, if you have no bias, Then i'm clearly the Marquis of Pluto... (Hint, you claim zero bias, your posts demonstrate the complete opposite.)

[Lorgar Aurelian]

Putting up wards to help the Alliance defend a dangerous weapon that many in the Alliance were likely itching to use, is not being "neutral". Even Vol'jin, who hated Garrosh more than most, thought that stealing it from them was the right thing to do, as he was afraid the Alliance would use it. If Jaina was truly neutral, she would have taken the bell herself, and had it destroyed or locked away inside Dalaran, instead of letting Night Elves keep it.



It would have been, had Princess Proudmoore used her brain and did those things she used to do (thinking and talking).

theirs no indication the alliance was ever going to use the bell they had it for plenty of time yet did nothing but guard it. jaina also has no governance over what artifacts the night elf's have putting up wards to keep it out of the war is in no way attacking the horde.

ya setting your self up for a 4th betrayal is a real reasonable thing to do when the horde have a history (or perceptive history) of betrayal.

[FelPlague]

I actually kinda liked her as the sweetheart as she was portrayed in WC3. I totally get people want to show women that aren't a damsel in distress, but I don't think the point is to make them all "tough". They have Syvlanas, Garona, Alleria, Mayla now, etc. Lots of strong female characters. Alleria is probably the most well written as a character (though her void magic thing seems shoe-horned in).

Leave Jaina be what she originally was imo.

so... you are saying she should even after being fucked over time and time and time again should still be the sweet kind girl she once was?


but no her family hates her cause the horde ransacked their city and killed its leader and jaina let them, so yeah they are going to be fucking pissed.
also they dont throw her in jail, they throw you in jail, and kick her out.

[delus]

Honestly it makes me smile so much that her whole family on Kul'Tiras pretty much disowned her and even thrown her to jail. Even Daelin who is dead despises her.

I'm really far more into Drustvar from the Alliance side rather than spending time to ''build up'' her story, she's more bland than Alleria and that's saying something. I just find it funny how she says ''We cannot dream any longer'' whilst also being one of the biggest orc sympathisers in Warcraft history. Make her a boss ASAP and get over with it plz.

Looks like they are going the opposite route and saying she was wrong to side with the Horde who were really monsters that ended up betraying her and her ideals of peace with the Horde were never achievable. Killing her at this point would only solidify the narrative that the horde were evil and Jaina screwed up by trusting them.

[Deleted]

I'm not sure you know what /10ch means, but you have greatly misused it there.

I have played WC3, yes, he hated her for what he did. The point is that the voice lines you used as "evidence" are in fact not evidence at all. Perhaps try reading comprehension classes?

You should also look into what a guilty conscious can do to someone and their memories.

And hey, if you have no bias, Then i'm clearly the Marquis of Pluto... (Hint, you claim zero bias, your posts demonstrate the complete opposite.)

Where did I say it's evidence of anything? All I've said is that her father hated her and you literally confirmed that a line below. Don't make yourself look like a faux intellectual and talk about comprehension ''classes'' to people online to make your e-peen feel bigger when comprehension is exactly what you're having issues with.

I've asked you to point out the bias, not talk about Marquis of Pluto. Instead of ''hints'' you could simply answer the question without looking like an idiot.

Infracted.

[Rathbourne]

I have no bias at all

LOL. OK man. We believe you......

[FelPlague]

Putting up wards to help the Alliance defend a dangerous weapon that many in the Alliance were likely itching to use, is not being "neutral". Even Vol'jin, who hated Garrosh more than most, thought that stealing it from them was the right thing to do, as he was afraid the Alliance would use it. If Jaina was truly neutral, she would have taken the bell herself, and had it destroyed or locked away inside Dalaran, instead of letting Night Elves keep it.



It would have been, had Princess Proudmoore used her brain and did those things she used to do (thinking and talking).

The alliance did not plan to use it, they even stated they knew it could cause horrible things and simply wanted to keep it safe as remember the horde LITERALLY JUST FUCKING used a powerful artifact to decimate a whole city.

Yes she could have had it put in dalaran but that would have actuallty made it easier for the horde to steal it (possibly) it also seems to be dificult to get the kirin tor to agree on things, they seem from what we know to take weeks or months to come a descison as said by jaina herself "will you stand and watch even as the horde burns down a world tree" this was stated back awhile ago...

but yeah she most likely would of if not for the rush for the bell being so sudden, and the kirin tor seeming to like to take its sweet time. but voljin also had not been betrayed by garrosh at this point yet had he? I cant remember when that happened.
but yeah the night elves had no intent to use it, they knew its power, what it would do, and that it would be near impossible to control or worth it.
Also destroying such an artifact instead of studying it incase there is others like it well.

btw she did not try, she was going to but thrall talked her out of it.
stop acting as if she did but failed, she was going to but decided not to.

Durotan was about to slaughter a defenseless draenei child but decided not to
and
Durotan tried to slaughter a defenseless draenei child

are two VERY, VERY, VERY different things

- - - Updated - - -

Where did I say it's evidence of anything? All I've said is that her father hated her and you literally confirmed that a line below. Don't make yourself look like a faux intellectual and talk about comprehension ''classes'' to people online to make your e-peen feel bigger when comprehension is exactly what you're having issues with.

I've asked you to point out the bias, not talk about Marquis of Pluto. Instead of ''hints'' you could simply answer the question without looking like an idiot.

his father loved her until he let the horde exist, by not killing them there and then, and letting them slay her father.

yeah her father hates her, he was a biggot and a racist and she chose "filthy orcs" over her own flesh and blood, that is not "them hating her cause she sucks" thats them hating her because she helped the horde find a place on this world.

[Deleted]

LOL. OK man. We believe you......

I have a bias because I don't share affection for one of the worst written characters in Warcraft? OK man, thanks for believing me.
@FelPlague

I know, that's what I've been trying to say. My point is that most of her family loved her and slowly started to hate her one by one because of her actions.