Poll: The most evil class in Wacraft is

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  1. #161
    Elemental Lord sam86's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Schattenlied View Post
    -snip-.
    So let's say Jimmy is growing up, decides he wants to be a tyrant evil who rule over the world, how can he do that
    he can't be a dk, there is zero guarantee if he goes to LK he will kill him and raise him as DK, in fact he will most likely turn him to a simple ghoul
    his only option to achieve evil goals is to be a warlock, learn fel magic, done, that simple start
    Hence why warlocks are evil
    And Meryl Felstorm is a mage, not warlock, try again
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  2. #162
    Old God Mirishka's Avatar
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    Based on the class quests, probably Death Knights. They were largely alright with murdering paladins in the name of resurrecting Tirion as a horseman, and while you could play the 'greater good' card, at the end of the day its still a pretty fucked-up thing to do.
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  3. #163
    Nah it's Warlocks. Death Knights had their anatomy altered through death and their capacity for empathy altered as well. Warlocks were born with this capacity and chose to act the way they do. It's about intent. DKs can't help themselves.

    Arthas is the easiest example. Frostmorne stole is soul, became an asshole, and reverted back when it was shattered.

  4. #164
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    Well, we shouldn't forget that there are also characters, even paladins, who became death knights without dying first and getting resurrected. They simply betrayed Lordaeron or the Silver Hand for example and became servants of the Lich King, for more power, because they were evil from the get go, got corrupted by the promise of power. Death Knights aren't only those power victims who got killed by the evil Scourge and resurrected by them, used against their own will.

    Having said that, i think its a bit hard to generalize here. Not every Death Knight or Warlock is as evil as the next one.

    In the end i think all these classes have extreme potential to be very, very evil. How evil just depends on the individual.

  5. #165
    Rogue Main here

    DK - Not sure whats all that evil. Sure, they cause diseases in people, but how is that any worse than a paladin burning them with holy fire? They feed off blood magic, but how is that inherently evil? Raising the dead. Is this inherently evil?

    Warlock - Similar argument. They may consume souls, they may consume life energy, but how exactly is this any more evil than bashing someones head in with a mace? Either way they lose life. The soul being consumed holds no weight in canon on whether or not this affects any sort of "afterlife" (i dont believe). Spirit in wow is more just the energy that heals life.

    Shadow Priest - What is evil about this? they tap into the void for power, but do they inherently do anything evil?

    Demon Hunter - This is probably the hardest to justify as evil. But then again, I always though Malf was a prick.

    Some things we need to define. Is harnessing void/fel inherently evil? What repercussions have we seen from this that actually impacted anyone other than the wielder? We have seen it used as a tool for evil because of its power, but we haven't seen the power itself do anything evil. Wielders of fel may become demons, but they usually still retain their ability to do good. The void tends to drive the mind into madness, but we haven't seen it force a good person to be bad as much as we have seen bad people be worse. (and corollary, we have seen wielders of the light be bad, and Xyrah makes me seriously question if the light is inherently good)

    Is undeath inherently evil? we have no reason to think so as plenty of the undead have done good things for selfless reasons. Usually their actions come down to whether they have independence, and whether or not they were halfway decent people.


    that said, as a rogue, I dont think anyone would think my abilities inherently make me evil. But I tell you what, when Wrathion was like "yo want some dope knives?" I was pretty quick to turn my head from him breaking red dragonflight members legs.

  6. #166
    Immortal Schattenlied's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Sugarlol View Post
    Oh look, Blizzard introduced a dialogue for dks and a red dragon in BFA, regarding the events at the ruby sanctum.



    God, I can only imagine how stupid you must feel now.
    What do I have to feel stupid over? I never said they killed every red dragon in existence, they killed the whelps, and the red dragons, since the events of dragon soul, are no longer capable of breeding.

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    Quote Originally Posted by sam86 View Post
    So let's say Jimmy is growing up, decides he wants to be a tyrant evil who rule over the world, how can he do that
    he can't be a dk, there is zero guarantee if he goes to LK he will kill him and raise him as DK, in fact he will most likely turn him to a simple ghoul
    his only option to achieve evil goals is to be a warlock, learn fel magic, done, that simple start
    Hence why warlocks are evil
    Let's say little Jimmy is growing up, decides he wants to be a hero who protects the world from the Legion, but he knows that when you kill a Demon it just regenerates and comes back, how can he really protect the world if they don't stay gone? His only option to truly achieve his noble goal is to be a Warlock, learn fel magic so he can trap their souls and prevent their regeneration, done, that simple start.

    Works both ways smartass.

    And Meryl Felstorm is a mage, not warlock, try again
    His various canon uses of fel magic, and his action figure, released in 2011, wearing Warlock T5 and sold under the name "Undead Warlock, Meryl Felstorm" beg to differ. His surname also used to be Winterstorm, gee, I wonder why he changed it to Felstorm.
    Last edited by Schattenlied; 2018-03-23 at 10:20 PM.
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  7. #167
    Moderator Aucald's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Schattenlied View Post
    His various canon uses of fel magic, and his action figure, released in 2011, wearing Warlock T5 and sold under the name "Undead Warlock, Meryl Felstorm" beg to differ. His surname also used to be Winterstorm, gee, I wonder why he changed it to Felstorm.
    Meryl changed his surname to "Felstorm" from "Winterstorm" because of his possession by the Dreadlord Kratha'natir - it was a symbol to him and his former allies that he was no longer able to be trusted. He began his life (and his early unlife) as a Mage, he actually made himself undead through Arcane magic (somehow). His possession by Kratha'natir gave him easy access to Fel magic, and during periods where the Dreadlord was in control of his body he effectively operated as a Warlock. Canonically, however, he is still a Mage and he eschews the power of Fel entirely once Kratha'natir is extracted from him.
    "We're more of the love, blood, and rhetoric school. Well, we can do you blood and love without the rhetoric, and we can do you blood and rhetoric without the love, and we can do you all three concurrent or consecutive. But we can't give you love and rhetoric without the blood. Blood is compulsory. They're all blood, you see." ― Tom Stoppard, Rosencrantz and Guildenstern are Dead

  8. #168
    Immortal Schattenlied's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Aucald View Post
    Meryl changed his surname to "Felstorm" from "Winterstorm" because of his possession by the Dreadlord Kratha'natir - it was a symbol to him and his former allies that he was no longer able to be trusted. He began his life (and his early unlife) as a Mage, he actually made himself undead through Arcane magic (somehow). His possession by Kratha'natir gave him easy access to Fel magic, and during periods where the Dreadlord was in control of his body he effectively operated as a Warlock. Canonically, however, he is still a Mage and he eschews the power of Fel entirely once Kratha'natir is extracted from him.
    And in spite of that, while he had that easy access to fel magic, effectively being a warlock, he used it for good, on multiple occasions. Simply knowing and using fel magic, being a warlock, does not make one evil, it never has, how you use it is all that matters.
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  9. #169
    Moderator Aucald's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Schattenlied View Post
    And in spite of that, while he had that easy access to fel magic, effectively being a warlock, he used it for good, on multiple occasions. Simply knowing and using fel magic, being a warlock, does not make one evil, it never has, how you use it is all that matters.
    I don't disagree with that, I was merely clarifying his actual class both before and after his possession by Kratha'natir. The Dreadlord often put Meryl in predicaments where he knew Meryl's own Arcane power would be insufficient to the task at hand, all as a long game to usurp more or more control over Meryl by making him dependent on the Fel. So long as Meryl was actively in control he did use it for good, though; and if Kratha'natir got the upper hand he used it for his own malevolent purposes. Once Kratha'natir was gone Meryl retained his knowledge of Fel magic but is committed to not using it - both because it no doubt reminds him of his days under the yoke of the Dreadlord and because he finds it personally distasteful (and it very nearly killed him during the Mage Order Hall campaign).
    "We're more of the love, blood, and rhetoric school. Well, we can do you blood and love without the rhetoric, and we can do you blood and rhetoric without the love, and we can do you all three concurrent or consecutive. But we can't give you love and rhetoric without the blood. Blood is compulsory. They're all blood, you see." ― Tom Stoppard, Rosencrantz and Guildenstern are Dead

  10. #170
    Elemental Lord sam86's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Schattenlied View Post
    Let's say little Jimmy is growing up, decides he wants to be a hero who protects the world from the Legion, but he knows that when you kill a Demon it just regenerates and comes back, how can he really protect the world if they don't stay gone? His only option to truly achieve his noble goal is to be a Warlock, learn fel magic so he can trap their souls and prevent their regeneration, done, that simple start.

    Works both ways smartass.


    His various canon uses of fel magic, and his action figure, released in 2011, wearing Warlock T5 and sold under the name "Undead Warlock, Meryl Felstorm" beg to differ. His surname also used to be Winterstorm, gee, I wonder why he changed it to Felstorm.
    wtf u talking about 'smartass' exactly? where did it ever show that warlock can trap a demon soul forever ? they can enslave them and that's it, i'll need u to show me where did u find that in ur head canon, outside of succubus no demon bound or obey the warlock willingly (yes read about succubus lore if u curious, she can betray fellow demons for her master if she falls in love with him)
    as for Meryl Felstorm, he is literally everywhere in mage class hall campaign if u don't know, yes he was shown as action figure but that's it, officially in wow he is shown as mage, btw Velen is shown as shaman in warcraft tcg, does that mean we ignore his entire wow appearance and even books and lore that state him as priest for 1 card that describe him as shaman ?
    and ur insisting that Meryl is a 'warlock' literally show how far deep ur dive in ur own head canon, Meryl is one if not the biggest figure in mage campaign, this is like saying Khadgar is a druid because he can morph to a raven
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  11. #171
    Immortal Schattenlied's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by sam86 View Post
    wtf u talking about 'smartass' exactly? where did it ever show that warlock can trap a demon soul forever ?
    Warlocks can, and have always been able to, get soulstones from killing demons with drain soul... That's how that ability works, you take the target's soul, and you put it in a gem. It's stuck there until that gem is destroyed.

    as for Meryl Felstorm, he is literally everywhere in mage class hall campaign if u don't know, yes he was shown as action figure but that's it, officially in wow he is shown as mage
    And in the past, in canon, he has had the abilities of a warlock. The events in the comics are canon unless declared otherwise.


    btw Velen is shown as shaman in warcraft tcg, does that mean we ignore his entire wow appearance and even books and lore that state him as priest for 1 card that describe him as shaman ?
    No, because the TCG has been declared non-canon by Blizzard, they have done no such thing with the comics.


    and ur insisting that Meryl is a 'warlock' literally show how far deep ur dive in ur own head canon,
    Go read the lore smartass, you're wrong. Until Blizzard states that the events of the stories he displayed fel magic in are non-canon, they are canon, and he had warlock abilities.


    this is like saying Khadgar is a druid because he can morph to a raven
    Wrong, Khadgar's ability to turn into a raven doesn't even come from him, it comes entirely from his staff. If you took that staff away from him, he wouldn't be able to do it anymore. Meryl still has the ability to do fel magic even post-possession, because he knows the spells, it comes from him, he simply currently chooses not to use it.
    Last edited by Schattenlied; 2018-03-24 at 07:06 AM.
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  12. #172
    Rogue, they are the most evil.
    The reasons are pretty obvious.

    DKs - they aren't who they used to be anymore, and they didn't willingly choose to be DKs. DKs also unwittingly serve a master.

    Warlocks - while it's true they choose to become warlocks, they aren't interested evil. Some become corrupted by the demons they enslave, not to mention long exposure to fel changes people.

    DH - they aren't even remotely evil lore wise, disenfranchised at worst.

    Shadow Priest- mainly undead and mainly coping with the difficulty of using the light.

    Rogues - a rogues business, for the most part is borderline evil. But the most telling, rogues choose their lifestyle, and they are completely uncorrupted. So a rogue is the person they wanted to be, and that mainly has to do with stealing things, subverting politics, assassination, and general chaos from the shadows.

  13. #173
    I'd say either DKs or SPs. Locks and DHs seem more in control to me, as in they could chose to be evil if they wanted to or not. DKs and SPs have less of a choice.

  14. #174
    Elemental Lord sam86's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Schattenlied View Post
    Warlocks can, and have always been able to, get soulstones from killing demons with drain soul... That's how that ability works, you take the target's soul, and you put it in a gem. It's stuck there until that gem is destroyed.
    And in the past, in canon, he has had the abilities of a warlock. The events in the comics are canon unless declared otherwise.
    No, because the TCG has been declared non-canon by Blizzard, they have done no such thing with the comics.
    Go read the lore smartass, you're wrong. Until Blizzard states that the events of the stories he displayed fel magic in are non-canon, they are canon, and he had warlock abilities.
    Wrong, Khadgar's ability to turn into a raven doesn't even come from him, it comes entirely from his staff. If you took that staff away from him, he wouldn't be able to do it anymore. Meryl still has the ability to do fel magic even post-possession, because he knows the spells, it comes from him, he simply currently chooses not to use it.
    so smartass, the guy who u first meet at mage campaign in legion, help u get mage artifact, establish with u mage class hall order, and start the order of tirisfal - a mage only order, is not a mage because he knows a spell or 2 from warlock books, doesn't work that way, he is literally the most important mage figure in ur mage class hall campaign in legion, this is like saying Velen is not priest because he show up in a quest with paladin order hall campaign, at least u'll have a more solid reason here since he does appear in another class hall campaign (paladin and priest), unlike Meryl who appears purely and only for mages, and help them in every step (he even start the artifact quest)
    Can u name a single npc in all class halls who establish the class hall with u, help u get the artifacts, and is heavily involved in ur entire class hall campaign, while being another class himself ? u do know that class order hall ban other classes from their halls, the only exception is paladin/priest and for specific quests only
    btw the 'canon' of the comic book is the biggest ambiguous part of lore right now, blizz said that med'an being a guardian is non canon, but all 'other events' are, and since the 2nd half of the comic is literally built on telling how med'an became a guardian, no one - including blizz - know what is actual canon there and what isn't
    lastly for the idea that soulstone can trap a demon soul and enslave it as u smartass comment said with zero backup, i still say that this head canon part has zero actual existence in lore, here https://wow.gamepedia.com/ go search where exactly did u find that head fart part, i searched few pages and results were not surprising null, the idea that someone become a warlock because 'warlocks are only class that can fight trap demons' is seriously out of head, if any class deserve the title of the best to hunt down demons, it would be the appropriately named Demon Hunter, not warlock (one of earliest quests in Azuna u even trap a demon with the help of a Demon Hunter, not a warlock)
    The beginning of wisdom is the statement 'I do not know.' The person who cannot make that statement is one who will never learn anything. And I have prided myself on my ability to learn
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  15. #175
    Immortal Schattenlied's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by sam86 View Post
    because he knows a spell or 2 from warlock books
    More than a couple spells, bub. I'm not saying he isn't a mage, he WAS a warlock in the past, and he did good with it.




    btw the 'canon' of the comic book is the biggest ambiguous part of lore right now, blizz said that med'an being a guardian is non canon, but all 'other events' are
    That's not ambiguous, that's pretty specific.



    lastly for the idea that soulstone can trap a demon soul and enslave it as u smartass comment said with zero backup, i still say that this head canon part has zero actual existence in lore
    That's how soul gems work... Do you think demons are somehow immune to it? Are you that fucking dense?


    ne of earliest quests in Azuna u even trap a demon with the help of a Demon Hunter, not a warlock
    You do know they share the same type of magic right? Demon Hunters are to Warlocks what Paladins are to Priests.
    Last edited by Schattenlied; 2018-03-24 at 05:57 PM.
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  16. #176
    The real deal is between shadow priest and warlock.
    The evil in warlocks seeks power for his own, while those crazy pirest bastards just want everything to get fucked, including themselves

  17. #177
    Warlocks created DKs. The first ones at least.

  18. #178
    Death Knights and Demon Hunters both have the hyper pragmatism thing going on so it's hard to really pin them down as evil. It remains to be seen if they'll actually hang up the edgy cloak and go back to being relatively harmless now that the Legion and Scourge are more or less dealt with or if they'll grow complacent and splinter into villain factions.

    Warlocks and Shadow Priests are a lot more willful in their ill intention. Unlike DK and DH's they can also infiltrate institutions by just not constantly being really fucking obvious, so you get cults all over the place with all manner of ambition. The ones that are open and take the pragmatic angle of fighting fire with fire seem to be the minority.

    I'm still not entirely clear on what makes a shadow priest a shadow priest though, but that's on account of the priest class's flexibility. A maddened worshiper of the Old Gods is probably a good bit more malevolent than some troll practicing hexes or a forsaken exploring the cult of shadow or whatever it's called.

    With the Legion taken care of I suspect we'll be seeing more evil from the shadow priest side of the equation going into the future.

  19. #179
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    I go with Death Knights. They're the only class literally forced to kill in order to maintain their sanity intact.
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  20. #180
    Paladins of course.

    It is THE self righteous class of WoW and most evil people throughout history have been self righteous. All the classes you have listed are just baddies but not evil.

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