Mega-Thread: Gun Control Thread

[Lucavian]

Thats wonderful, with all due respect not everyone lives in your province. There are plenty of cases of people who were robbed, killed and body left for hunters/hikers/joggers to find. Hell I remember a case where the family was tied up in the home. The robber took cash and valuables and torched the place. The whole family died in the fire.



See my above statement.

Then their goal was murder, not robbery.

[cubby]

VT shooting killed 32 students with two handguns
Orlando Nightclub, 49 people killed using handguns

I wasnt talking only school shootings, I wouldnt think it would matter, a mass shooting is a mass shooting.

And the biggest one of all in the U.S. used what again? Along with the two biggest school shootings. Do you realize what we're arguing about? We are the only civilized country that has mass shootings anymore.

It is relevant if you want gun advocates to agree with you. If you say: "18 year olds should not be able to buy machine guns" Then you wont get far, because in order to agree to that gun advocates are basically saying Machine guns are ok for 18+ when that is not what we are talking about.

If you want the gun regulation people to just roll over gun rights' advocates then fine, make it relevant. But you have to understand that arguing specific terminology, while useful, doesn't help when you say if "falls on deaf ears" - they will say, fine, we'll just ban them all. Easy.

If you want the conversation, you have to meet people half way.

You are right, When I say emotional, I mean that it just isnt important to many people until the next event happens. Its not a major policy point for any politician until it happens again. Its all abortion, healthcare, gay marriage etc.. I could be wrong, but thats just how I see it. Maybe it will be during the midterms who knows.

I have altered my approach to discussion as well. I know the fears people have about firearms. They raise some good points. not being able to buy under the age of 18 is not something I agree with, but I will concede on that because I feel it is something to compromise on and people seem to be really in favor of it.

It will be interesting to see if this continues. Since school shootings keep happening, I imagine it will.

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Out of millions of arrests, there is a minuscule percentage of lethal force used by police. (average in the past few years I think was 0.00003%)

I ran out the numbers for 2015/2016 a little ways up. It's amazing that people can forget how much good officers do, and only focus on the 0.000001% of bad actors.

[petej0]

Then their goal was murder, not robbery.

And how do you know this going into the robbery?

[sarahtasher]

And how do you know this going into the robbery?

I would daresay that if you are attacked by someone like the vilain of the week in ''Criminal Minds'', he is not going to stand still while you say ''let me give you my wallet that is totally not bulging out my pants''

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Hmf...probably already posted but back a few years ago; CDC Study: Use of Firearms for Self-Defense is ‘Important Crime Deterrent’

I'm sure this quote is as accurate as the one last night. in that CDC ''report'' that is not a report but a study on methological approaches to gun violence.

[petej0]

And the biggest one of all in the U.S. used what again? Along with the two biggest school shootings. Do you realize what we're arguing about? We are the only civilized country that has mass shootings anymore.

When you have more of something you will have more negative results from it. We have over 300 million firearms, frankly I am surprised the death count isnt higher.

If you want the gun regulation people to just roll over gun rights' advocates then fine, make it relevant. But you have to understand that arguing specific terminology, while useful, doesn't help when you say if "falls on deaf ears" - they will say, fine, we'll just ban them all. Easy.

If you want the conversation, you have to meet people half way.

I dont want gun control advocate to roll over. I want them to learn the terminology to ensure we are all speaking about the same things. Otherwise when one person says "Machine gun" the other isnt sure if they mean "semi-auto" or "Fully auto"

It will be interesting to see if this continues. Since school shootings keep happening, I imagine it will.

I dont think it will, unless one happens during the election cycle.

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I would daresay that if you are attacked by someone like the vilain of the week in ''Criminal Minds'', he is not going to stand still while you say ''let me give you my wallet that is totally not bulging out my pants''

People see a news report of someone who was robbed and murdered or vice versa and determine that they dont want to be the next victim. So they go out and take self defense classes or purchase a knife. I do not judge them for wanting to defend themselves.

[Stormdash]

Sarahtasher, if you knew more about actual force-on-force training, you'd know nobody is out there being trained to pull out a gun to protect $40-50, they are being told to cooperate with that.

[Daelak]

Prevent them from getting a gun illegally and they'll find more dastardly ways of killing their fellow students.

With what? Fertilizer? Plastic explosives? Both of those are heavily regulated and take in-depth vetting protocols before the buyer is cleared for purchase.

[zenkai]

You think it is because you deflect and dissemble when cornered with facts and logic. Nothing here is telling us differently. Or do you not understand the difference between a fake gun and a non-existent gun?

I made a point and you have provided nothing to counter it unless you count personal attacks and emoji's.

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Then their goal was murder, not robbery.

Or both, or other things as well. Maybe his goal was just to rob you but decided to leave no witnesses.

[petej0]

With what? Fertilizer? Plastic explosives? Both of those are heavily regulated and take in-depth vetting protocols before the buyer is cleared for purchase.

I agree, the gun is the easiest method and they probably wont do anything if they cant get a gun. Although with the slenderman killings the two girls lead the third girl into the woods and stabbed her and left her for dead.

However I think the vast majority of problems in schools today are because of bullying. Which makes this whole walkout thing kinda ironic.

[cubby]

I made a point and you have provided nothing to counter it unless you count personal attacks and emoji's.

I'm not sure that emoji's are personal attacks. The other stuff was just an observation of your previous behavior. If you don't believe me, just ask others who have tried to have civilized conversations with you and been rebuffed by your deflection.

Your response above is a perfect example - you don't address or correct the point at all. Just rinse/repeat with nothing new.

Or are fake guns the same thing as no gun?

Please, prove me wrong - address the issue instead of your usual obfuscation. We'll be shocked.

[Daelak]

I agree, the gun is the easiest method and they probably wont do anything if they cant get a gun. Although with the slenderman killings the two girls lead the third girl into the woods and stabbed her and left her for dead.

However I think the vast majority of problems in schools today are because of bullying. Which makes this whole walkout thing kinda ironic.

But even in your own example, one person died, not 17, or 49, or 58.

The consequences of a person being bullied or ostracized would be considerably less if they couldn't just walk into a store and purchase a firearm or take a firearm from a "responsible gun owner" and use it in the commission of a crime.

[Shadowferal]

I'm sure this quote is as accurate as the one last night. in that CDC ''report'' that is not a report but a study on methological approaches to gun violence.

And I'm sure you wouldn't accept any report that sees any opposition to your opinion.

[zenkai]

I'm not sure that emoji's are personal attacks. The other stuff was just an observation of your previous behavior. If you don't believe me, just ask others who have tried to have civilized conversations with you and been rebuffed by your deflection.

Your response above is a perfect example - you don't address or correct the point at all. Just rinse/repeat with nothing new.

Or are fake guns the same thing as no gun?

Please, prove me wrong - address the issue instead of your usual obfuscation. We'll be shocked.

I said personal attacks and Emoji's, not sure how you couldn't understand the sentence...

Prove my point wrong or don't post at me at all.

[petej0]

But even in your own example, one person died, not 17, or 49, or 58.

The consequences of a person being bullied or ostracized would be considerably less if they couldn't just walk into a store and purchase a firearm or take a firearm from a "responsible gun owner" and use it in the commission of a crime.

I havent heard of any schools shootings done by middle schoolers or high schoolers who bought their guns from their local firearm store. Taking them from a legal owner is a separate topic though and I think those owners should be charged as accessory or at the very least charged with endangerment.

And it would be even less, if parents taught their children to respect their classmates. We wouldnt have the sad stories of 13 year old kids hanging themselves in their closets which probably happen more often. Maybe its ok though because its only one death not 17 or 49 or 58.

[cubby]

I said personal attacks and Emoji's, not sure how you couldn't understand the sentence...

Prove my point wrong or don't post at me at all.

Still not addressing the issue I see. Proving that all the observations of your deflection and obfuscation are correct.

Thanks!

[zenkai]

So you can't prove me wrong, got it.

[Daelak]

I havent heard of any schools shootings done by middle schoolers or high schoolers who bought their guns from their local firearm store. Taking them from a legal owner is a separate topic though and I think those owners should be charged as accessory or at the very least charged with endangerment.

And it would be even less, if parents taught their children to respect their classmates. We wouldnt have the sad stories of 13 year old kids hanging themselves in their closets which probably happen more often. Maybe its ok though because its only one death not 17 or 49 or 58.

And that conversation would invariably lead to school funding of in-house psychologists, therapists, counselors, and other professions that NRA gun owner types would consider "libruhl, big gub'mint ivory tower edumacated" types who wouldn't want to see their property taxes or federal income taxes going to those types of mental problems.

So until conservatives stop being reactionary and antithetical to school funding and other schooling improvements, this whole conversation of healthcare access is meaningless, just like it was designed to be.

[Mullet Man]

And that conversation would invariably lead to school funding of in-house psychologists, therapists, counselors, and other professions that NRA gun owner types would consider "libruhl, big gub'mint ivory tower edumacated" types who wouldn't want to see their property taxes or federal income taxes going to those types of mental problems.

So until conservatives stop being reactionary and antithetical to school funding and other schooling improvements, this whole conversation of healthcare access is meaningless, just like it was designed to be.

I'm an NRA member and highly educated, working for a University in the USA.

Skipping all the hyperbole... and when we really get down to it, unstable people need to be in a mental ward.
This was common in the past.
The problem is this is not a politically correct move, and the public doesn't have the stomach for it.

https://www.npr.org/2017/11/30/56747...-health-crisis

[Moadar]

Oh yeah I know, just felt the need to say it. It's ridiculous all these gun owners like to claim they are responsible good people and throw a fit because they will be inconvenienced.

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I'm pretty sure we are. The important thing is to speak up and try to change things.

People only seem to want to change one thing.

[lockedout]

I don't believe this to be accurate.

Well your beliefs are unfound.