Mega-Thread: Gun Control Thread

[cuafpr]

My first and main priority would be to make "schools safe"
#Make_Schools_Safe

By increasing the age limit to 23 or even 25.

But why does it need to be a correlation between "gun restriction" and "age of adulthood"?
Permission to hold an object to kill people doesnt have to be correlated to "adulthood". They are 2 different things.
I dont understand the drama of this. May be due to our cultural differences, idk.

raising the age would not have stopped the latest shooting. Also if you raise the age (something i'm indifferent on) then the selective service age (draft) needs to be raised as well. I actually think, voting / service / drinking should all the same age, if you are adult enough for one then you are for all.

[Mullet Man]

My first and main priority would be to make "schools safe"
#Make_Schools_Safe

By increasing the age limit to 23 or even 25.

But why does it need to be a correlation between "gun restriction" and "age of adulthood"?
Permission to hold an object to kill people doesnt have to be correlated to "adulthood". They are 2 different things.
I dont understand the drama of this. May be due to your culture, idk.

Drama probably isn't the correct word. I think you have a specific view of the world based on your location, as expected. When you look at others problems you see simple solutions. There are no simple solutions. If it was simple, it would have already been done.

For your question on correlation of gun age and adulthood:
In the USA at 18 years you are considered an adult in the eyes of the law, and you can also be drafted, involuntarily, into the Armed Forces.
Any unlawful action you take at 18+ comes will fully penalty of the law. No exceptions.
If you are drafted, a gun will be forced into your hands by the US Army and you will be asked to go die for your country.

At the same time, you are telling these 18 year olds they are not mature enough and can't legally purchase or possess a gun. Its very hypocritical.

Give 18 year olds all the benefits and responsibilities of adulthood, or raise the age for everything. And yes, I believe the drinking age should be changed to match.

[Deleted]

raising the age would not have stopped the latest shooting.

Really? How did he get the guns then? From his parents house?

Also if you raise the age (something i'm indifferent on) then the selective service age (draft) needs to be raised as well. I actually think, voting / service / drinking should all the same age, if you are adult enough for one then you are for all.

I dont understand the drama behind this topic. Why does it need to be a correlation between gun restriction and age of adulthood?
This is definitely a cultural thing from America.

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I don't the drama is the correct word. I think you have a specific view of the world based on your location, as expected. When you look at others problems you see simple solutions. There are no simple solutions. If it was simple, it would have already been done.

For your question on correlation of gun age and adulthood:
In the USA at 18 years you are considered an adult in the eyes of the law, and you can also be drafted, involuntarily, into the Armed Forces.
Any unlawful action you take at 18+ comes will fully penalty of the law. No exceptions.
If you are drafted, a gun will be forced into your hands by the US Army and you will be asked to go die for your country.

At the same time, you are telling these 18 year olds they are mature enough and can't legally purchase or possess a gun on their own. Its very hypocritical.
Give 18 year olds all the benefits and responsibilities of adulthood, or raise the age for everything.

Ah, i understand now the problem...
I would still do it even if it's hypocritical because this is an urgent matter.

But i agree that is strange

[Mullet Man]

Really? How did he get the guns then? From his parents house?



I dont understand the drama behind this topic. Why does it need to be a correlation between gun restriction and age of adulthood?
This is definitely a cultural thing from America.

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Ah, i understand now the problem...
I would still do it even if it's hypocritical because this is an urgent matter.

But i agree that is strange

Knee-jerk reactions implemented by Government do not usually end well and have unintended consequences.
See USA invasion of Iraq after 9/11 for a good example.

[Deleted]

Knee-jerk reactions implemented by Government do not usually end well and have unintended consequences.
See USA invasion of Iraq after 9/11 for a good example.

I need to go to sleep, i bid you farewell friend and thanks for keeping me company

But i agree that law of "adulthood" in america is a tough one for the debate.
Even though it is a "cultural thing"
Because in many countries there is no correlation between this 2 things.

In Brazil you can only have a gun at 25y old.

[Mullet Man]

I need to go to sleep, i bid you farewell friend and thanks for keeping me company

But i agree that law of "adulthood" in america is a tough one for the debate.
Even though it is a "cultural thing"
Because in many countries there is no correlation between this 2 things.

In Brazil you can only have a gun at 25y old.

Good night. Was good talking with you.
God Bless and keep safe.

[AlphaOut]

My first and main priority would be to make "schools safe"
#Make_Schools_Safe

By increasing the age limit to 23 or even 25.

But why does it need to be a correlation between "gun restriction" and "age of adulthood"?
Permission to hold an object to kill people doesnt have to be correlated to "adulthood". They are 2 different things.
I dont understand the drama of this. May be due to our cultural differences, idk.

If your main priority is safety in schools, we have that in common. But I think we have different views. How many school shootings has there been where the shooter was above the age of 18? Why aren't these buildings secure? Can any random person just walk into a school?

Doors should be locked from the outside, with one magnetic entrance / exit available during school hours, with a camera feed / buzzer to notify the office. That entrance should have two sets of doors with the middle area being able to call the office. Those sets of doors should be right outside the office. That's how all schools in my area are ran, minus I think three. Which one of them had a shooting last year killing 1 person and injuring two. Not really surprised someone would choose an unsecure building.

How many shootings involved the shooter being under the age of 18? How did he obtain this weapon? Was it from a friend or was it their parents firearm? Why wasn't the owner of this firearm, if registered, punished for negligence of a firearm? Why does this never get reported? Isn't it important to know where the underage individuals are getting these firearms from? I think so.

When we ask these questions we can see how many of these shootings could have been avoided with the smallest amount of building safety. I mean really, can someone tell me how a 19 year old who has no business being at the school, carry a duffel bag inside, pop a fire alarm and open fire? Then he actually gets away and goes to Subway. Its really that easy? No wonder schools are such a hot target. Not to mention its an obvious "gun free" zone. Sounds like a psychopaths playground to me. And people sit here and try to convince me its a firearm issue?

I refuse to believe its an age issue and I refuse to believe its a firearm issue. Because if we create these restrictions, then if 5 years down the road we haven't seen any noticeable difference, what's next? More restrictions? Slowly killing the 2nd Amendment 5 years at a time? Wouldn't it be more logical to start at the root of the problem? Asking where these firearms are coming from, if they're underage? Asking how easy is it to actually enter a school during school hours if you have no business being there?

I don't know, maybe I'm crazy, but looking right at the firearm itself seems like the easy way out, without actually asking the important questions and addressing every issue surrounding these shootings.

For the record, if a kid uses their parents firearm to commit murder, I truly believe the parents should be held accountable to the same standard as their kid.

[cuafpr]

Really? How did he get the guns then? From his parents house?



I dont understand the drama behind this topic. Why does it need to be a correlation between gun restriction and age of adulthood?
This is definitely a cultural thing from America.

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Ah, i understand now the problem...
I would still do it even if it's hypocritical because this is an urgent matter.

But i agree that is strange

I haven't looked into how he got it, but it was a handgun which already requires you to be 21, and he was 17 or 18... My guess would be parents or friends house.

the only correlation i'm doing is lining the ages up for service, if you can be asked by your country to fight a war, i feel you are old enough to go through the checks to buy your own weapon and also buy alcohol.

[Deleted]

How did he obtain this weapon? Was it from a friend or was it their parents firearm? Why wasn't the owner of this firearm, if registered, punished for negligence of a firearm? Why does this never get reported? Isn't it important to know where the underage individuals are getting these firearms from? I think so.

I know right?
Why dont the media always tell how this kids get their guns? ITS SO IMPORTANT for the debate.
It should be the first thing said by the media.
Maybe people dont say where the guns come from because it would make the NRA look bad? Because this kids are getting their guns legally?

I dont know, im just guessing...

[Deleted]

I am danish so, we dont have guns and never had guns. But i find it interesting that, what is the joke from "the onion" ‘No Way To Prevent This,’ Says Only Nation Where This Regularly Happens" And the entire Guns dont kill people, that is true, but it does dramatically increases ones killing power by haveing guns.
And i know you can't ban guns, but what about some very strict regulations. but no as the NRA pretty much ownes 50% of the politicans that wont likely happend.

[Deleted]

If your main priority is safety in schools, we have that in common. But I think we have different views. How many school shootings has there been where the shooter was above the age of 18? Why aren't these buildings secure? Can any random person just walk into a school?

Yes! Anyone can just walk into any school, and this should be the norm!? I mean, not having children locked up and creating an open learning environment seems like good thing. Having security left and right with armed guards at school doesn't seem like a very child friendly place to me.

Doors should be locked from the outside, with one magnetic entrance / exit available during school hours, with a camera feed / buzzer to notify the office. That entrance should have two sets of doors with the middle area being able to call the office. Those sets of doors should be right outside the office. That's how all schools in my area are ran, minus I think three. Which one of them had a shooting last year killing 1 person and injuring two. Not really surprised someone would choose an unsecure building.

This feels like something coming straight from 1984 to me, my schools have always been open and we never had any problems. I can understand that you want your children to be safe, but to lock them up or keep them out seems not great of an idea to me.

How many shootings involved the shooter being under the age of 18? How did he obtain this weapon? Was it from a friend or was it their parents firearm? Why wasn't the owner of this firearm, if registered, punished for negligence of a firearm? Why does this never get reported? Isn't it important to know where the underage individuals are getting these firearms from? I think so.

I think a good place to start would be, "why aren't all firearms registered". I agree that it is a good question, but it is hard to answer when the majority of firearms aren't registered.

When we ask these questions we can see how many of these shootings could have been avoided with the smallest amount of building safety. I mean really, can someone tell me how a 19 year old who has no business being at the school, carry a duffel bag inside, pop a fire alarm and open fire? Then he actually gets away and goes to Subway. Its really that easy? No wonder schools are such a hot target. Not to mention its an obvious "gun free" zone. Sounds like a psychopaths playground to me. And people sit here and try to convince me its a firearm issue?

I refuse to believe its an age issue and I refuse to believe its a firearm issue. Because if we create these restrictions, then if 5 years down the road we haven't seen any noticeable difference, what's next? More restrictions? Slowly killing the 2nd Amendment 5 years at a time? Wouldn't it be more logical to start at the root of the problem? Asking where these firearms are coming from, if they're underage? Asking how easy is it to actually enter a school during school hours if you have no business being there?

I think a lot more of these shootings would be negated if there was some sort of ban on random people having firearms in their homes. I read it here all the time "guns are just tools" "guns do not kill people, people kill people" and all other randomness. But the fact of the matter is that guns make killing people a hell of a lot more easy, and when everyone has this kind of power things will generally not become more safe.

Age doesn't really enter into any of this, it is the availability that is the problem. It doesn't matter that a 17 year old can't buy a gun, if your obsessed 17 year old can get access in any way to them, they will. They might get access to your gun safe, or to the one of gramps of from the people next door.

Having gun ownership being a right is ultimately just a bad idea in our current civilization. Every gun owner is a "law abiding citizen" until they are not. Back in the 1980's there was a thing with the postal service https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Going_postal "going postal" was a big thing back then. People who where at their whits end and started to shoot up their work place, because they simply broke down. Every human being can be brought to such a place, and this can happen much faster then you can imagine. All that is needed is to push this persons right buttons and off they will go.

I don't know, maybe I'm crazy, but looking right at the firearm itself seems like the easy way out, without actually asking the important questions and addressing every issue surrounding these shootings.

For the record, if a kid uses their parents firearm to commit murder, I truly believe the parents should be held accountable to the same standard as their kid.

You might be right in calling it the "easy way out", if we could all just live in peace then everyone could own a gun because no one would have any use for it in the first place. A firearm is a force multiplier, and when everyone has one you feel you need one too. I think that taking away the feeling that you need a gun in order to feel safe is the first step to take. Make society safe by default, that is the way to start gun control if you want to go do it "the hard way".

Of course there should be a change in the underlying mechanisms that drive people into doing such horrible things, but these are much harder to fix. Think of it as a transgender person, you could say "why don't' we just fix them so that they may feel at home in their own bodies", i think we could all agree that this would be the best solution. But this isn't possible at this time, so the "easy way out" (just like having a grip on firearms in America, changing your sex is in no way an easy thing) is undergoing a sex change operation. It isn't an easy fix, but, it is the only viable one at this time unless you want to transform the whole of society overnight. And there is this thing that knowing that people can do these horrible things, i think its odd to say the least to give people access to the tools that allow them to do these terrible things.

[Ghostpanther]

I live in Portugal
We've never had kids with guns shooting at eachoter. What happened one time was 2 parents mad at eachoter because of custody of a kid shot eachoter.
One time, and it wasnt a kid with a gun.

But you see what i mean in my post?
A simple view on things makes all your situation seem crazy

I understand how you feel being from a small European Country, which has none of our history, Constitution or culture. You seem to be happy where you are and that is important. But so am I here where I live. I would not want to live in any other country.

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Shadowferal, this video (from 2013, which is old...) feature, I counted, 6 cases

1 from 2012
1 from 2010
1 I can't figure out
1, excuse me, being attacked by 4 guys with firearms, that does not EXACTLY strike me as law abiding citizen.
1 gang case
1 from 2005

Again, to find something akin to the numbers proposed by the NRA, you would need to find at least cases like this for A SINGLE DAY. Not six things spread over six a decade.

(I repeat : the NRA says there are '' 2 million'' stories like this per year. Even if allow Republican style hyperbole and put it down to 200 000, with 99% of those stories ignored by the eeebil SJW media, it would still leave 2000 cases per year. Not 200 cases per 20 years.

What difference does it make if they are a few years old? duh. There are ones you can find from a few months ago and you seem to forget that the great majority of firearms used to deter a crime or never reported to the police or is there any videos of such.

[Daelak]

I'm an NRA member and highly educated, working for a University in the USA.

Skipping all the hyperbole... and when we really get down to it, unstable people need to be in a mental ward.
This was common in the past.
The problem is this is not a politically correct move, and the public doesn't have the stomach for it.

https://www.npr.org/2017/11/30/56747...-health-crisis

Guess what political faction/ideology decided that mental health screening and universal access to healthcare was a liberal boondoggle because the "moochers" were taking away their hard-earned tax money from the "makers"?

The problem is that conservatism is reactionary and fundamentally unable to prescribe solutions and a governing philosophy for our country.

[Ghostpanther]

But you can restrict people from having guns.
I dont know for sure what laws but you want to hear my best one?

Restrict to age of 23 or 25.

Seems like a good age to me.
People usually finished school by then.
And there is no reason to have a gun at age 18-25.

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We do have some restrictions. Several. If you really want to know, do a search on the gun laws of the US. They will vary according to the states, as we are not a one solid form of government, but comprised of representatives from each State. We are also one of the oldest continual independent nations on the earth which has the same government as we did when we first became independent. Over 240 years ago.

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So no convictions then?

Thanks for playing.

I would rather take the word of a defense lawyer than some person on a gaming forum. If they say they can be charged with such, they pretty much mean there are convictions of such. Common sense. :P

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Cars are not made to kill people. Guns are.
A person with a baseball bat is less dangerous than a person with a gun.

Some guns are not made to kill people. Some are made specifically and designed for competitive shooting.

A guy in the US wanted his inheritance from his parents, so he went out and tried to buy a shot gun and was turned down because he failed a back ground check. So he went into a sports store and bought a baseball bat, went back to his parents home and beat them both to death with the bat. True story.

While granted the firearm is far more deadly than a baseball bat, many tools can kill people and do every day.

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I haven't looked into how he got it, but it was a handgun which already requires you to be 21, and he was 17 or 18... My guess would be parents or friends house.

the only correlation i'm doing is lining the ages up for service, if you can be asked by your country to fight a war, i feel you are old enough to go through the checks to buy your own weapon and also buy alcohol.

He got the firearm from his parents. I would assume they had it stored where he could easily get it. But Maryland only has safe storage laws to prevent minors under the age of 16 having access to them, so I do not think the parents will be charged with any crime.

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I am danish so, we dont have guns and never had guns. But i find it interesting that, what is the joke from "the onion" ‘No Way To Prevent This,’ Says Only Nation Where This Regularly Happens" And the entire Guns dont kill people, that is true, but it does dramatically increases ones killing power by haveing guns.
And i know you can't ban guns, but what about some very strict regulations. but no as the NRA pretty much ownes 50% of the politicans that wont likely happend.

The NRA are advocates for protecting the rights we have under the Constitution when it comes to firearms. So I hope it does not happen. Very strict restrictions that is. Some improvements of our existing laws, yeah, And some stronger enforcement of the existing ones and higher penalties for violating them is in order.

[Kathandira]

http://www.baltimoresun.com/news/mar...mpression=true

head, officials investigating the case said Monday.

According to details released by the St. Mary’s County sheriff’s office, Rollins parked his car at 7:50 a.m. and walked through the school’s main entrance two minutes later.

At 7:57 a.m., he approached classmate Jaelynn Willey, 16, and shot her once in the head with his father’s Glock 9-millimeter pistol. That bullet also struck 14-year-old Desmond Barnes in the leg.

After firing the handgun, Rollins kept walking through the school, where he was confronted by school resource officer Deputy First Class Blaine Gaskill just after 8 a.m. Their weapons went off simultaneously 31 seconds later, with Rollins shooting himself in the head and Gaskill shooting Rollins in the hand, officials said.

Looks like this incident can be removed from the list of "Good guys with a gun". Armed officer on premises didn't deter him. Armed officer didn't take him out. You could say that the presence of the officer is what drove him to take him own life though.

[Ghostpanther]

http://www.baltimoresun.com/news/mar...mpression=true



Looks like this incident can be removed from the list of "Good guys with a gun". Armed officer on premises didn't deter him. Armed officer didn't take him out. You could say that the presence of the officer is what drove him to take him own life though.

Not really when the report said, After firing the handgun, Rollins kept walking through the school, where he was confronted by school resource officer Deputy First Class Blaine Gaskill just after 8 a.m. Their weapons went off simultaneously 31 seconds later,

[Kathandira]

Not really when the report said, After firing the handgun, Rollins kept walking through the school, where he was confronted by school resource officer Deputy First Class Blaine Gaskill just after 8 a.m. Their weapons went off simultaneously 31 seconds later,

Highlight the next sentence too. That is where I said what you are saying. =p

[Nfinitii]

Cars are not made to kill people. Guns are.
A person with a baseball bat is less dangerous than a person with a gun.

Yet cars kill as many ppl a year as guns do, and injure vastly more. But if u take away all the gun suicides, cars kill almost 3 times as many ppl w/ drunk drivers killing almost as many ppl as as those murdered by guns. But when u start looking at the numbers of what ppl r dying from guns r the least of our problems.

[Ghostpanther]

Highlight the next sentence too. That is where I said what you are saying. =p

Yes, he died from a self inflicted gunshot. But if his old gf was his only target, why did he keep walking through the school and not just shoot himself right after he shot her? The responding officer I think did make a difference.

[Deleted]

The NRA are advocates for protecting the rights we have under the Constitution when it comes to firearms. So I hope it does not happen. Very strict restrictions that is. Some improvements of our existing laws, yeah, And some stronger enforcement of the existing ones and higher penalties for violating them is in order.

But the entire" just protecting our rights" Is an old argument, Ones if a woman was found to be unfaith full you could stone her to death. AT one point someone figured" hear what, maybe our lawfull right to stone women should be changed"
IT might be part of the constitution, but i would point out it referes to a civil militia(but that is not really my major point here) But if the constituion is outdated then it should be changed. But ones more that is just me, I feel it is weird that a person can easyer, faster and sooner buy guns then alcohol.